University of Idaho Rocket Accident

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I sure hope the government doesn't take issue with this. It's all we need.

Believe itmor not, every time someone gets hurt, that activity doesn't get shut down. Boy Scouts didn't ban rocketry after a death. The government hasn't banned cars. Knitting needles kill people every year.

Isolated incidents by idiots is not not going to lead to the doom of our hobby. Stay safe, run our launches well, and our own safety record will protect us.

Sure, this was likely something not safe. Four kids in a parking lot aren't going to get us shut down by the man. Of course, I'd hate to be trying to start a college club right now.
 
Well, I don't want to sound cold hearted but, eventho' I'm sorry they got hurt and hope they recover, I'm afraid they got what they deserved. They were just asking for trouble and they got a healthy dose of it.

Stupidity should be painful.

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But keep in mind that those "facts" are filtered through the usual fog of war, plus the game of telephone that always gets played when a technical event is being reported on by people unfamiliar with the tech involved.

For example, it would be extremely easy for a reporter to turn "anodized" into "galvanized". The pipe is just described as "metal". You take that to mean "galvanized steel/iron", but we don't have confirmation.

And "walked up to light it" - where do you see that? I just see "when it was lit", with no detail on the ignition system or how far away the individual was (or wasn't) when they lit the rocket.

Testing in a parking lot on a pallet - yeah, not as good as in a bunker or buried in a hole, but not inherently unsafe if safe distances and PPE are observed (after all, we fire rockets in open areas all the time. Hard to launch in a shipping container! They even CATO semi-frequently, that's why we have established safety distances). Not sure why 10p.m. matters - late means no bystanders are around, so that's probably a safety feature, not a bug.

Now the likelihood is that some or all standard safety practices were not properly observed. But I think it's irresponsible to speculate on that too much at this point. I only mentioned CTI because I have confidence they have strong safety procedures, and therefore you don't need to be an idiot to get injured when working with rockets. The final root cause might be "they were being idiots", but until we know for sure that's a harsh judgement to apply to the victims here.


we can agree to disagree on what we disagree on.
im sure the school board would have approved of testing motors in the parking lot. so would their insurance company.
 
I think one thing that we could all agree on is that the people involved recover quickly and completely.

One thing I'd love to see is a full report from a responsible investigating entity post a detailed evaluation on what happened and why. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Really smart people learn from the mistakes of others.
 
I think one thing that we could all agree on is that the people involved recover quickly and completely.

One thing I'd love to see is a full report from a responsible investigating entity post a detailed evaluation on what happened and why. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Really smart people learn from the mistakes of others.


...there's nothing to learned from this except to not attend the U of I. Like I said to a Law student here going to Concordia Law, there's a difference between a law school where you have to apply to be accepted and one that has to accept you. I had a lawyer whine and protest that he had to apply, I said they will accept a toenail with the proper paperwork...he had nothing else to say....
 
I'm afraid they got what they deserved. They were just asking for trouble and they got a healthy dose of it. Stupidity should be painful.

Neat, you must have more confirmed details than the rest of us to arrive at such a final conclusion. Mind sharing your source?

im sure the school board would have approved of testing motors in the parking lot. so would their insurance company.

This "parking lot" is fairly good sized, gravel, relatively close to the engineering building, and mostly empty at 10pm. There are many valid critiques, but I'm not sure this is one of them.

IF they were using matches & fuse, that's obviously very bad.
IF they were using galvanized pipe, that's obviously very bad.
IF they had no containment (e.g. bags of sand) on the pallet, that's obviously very bad.

I don't know these things. I do hope they recover quickly and completely. I'm fairly certain the Uni will take a long hard look, hopefully at -all- of their potentially dangerous teams/clubs.

But until more details come out, I'd say the general safety reminder is the most concrete conclusion I can reach.
 
Looking for recent updates, but found this from yesterday.
Bob Yanecek is the president of the Spokane Area Rocket Club. He has been flying model rockets for over 40 years. Some of the students from the University of Idaho’s Northwest Organization of Rocket Engineers went to a recent launch that Yanecek’s club put on.

"Very, very enthusiastic. I was incredibly impressed with their enthusiasm,” he explained.

Yanecek said the students were there just to chat.

School officials said the students were using eight to twelve inches of galvanized metal pipe in the test and that is what sticks out to Yanecek.

"The galvanized pipe thing is a definite red flag,” Yanecek said. "There's a reason terrorists use them for pipe bombs. Because galvanized metal pipe, if it does over pressurize, it can fracture into pieces."

Galvanized pipe is not the safest or wisest choice in the model rocket community, Yanecek explained. Then there's how the test came about. An empty parking lot isn't necessarily a bad idea. He said what is questionable is how close the students were to the rocket at the time.

"Every event, your safety distance is based on expecting this to happen. Or preparing. You don't expect it to happen, but you always prepare for it to happen," he said.

Yanecek said that if you follow the guidelines and play it safe, rocketry should not be dangerous.
https://www.krem.com/news/local/spo...-explosion-is-potentially-dangerous/431423209
 
Believe itmor not, every time someone gets hurt, that activity doesn't get shut down. Boy Scouts didn't ban rocketry after a death. The government hasn't banned cars. Knitting needles kill people every year.

Isolated incidents by idiots is not not going to lead to the doom of our hobby. Stay safe, run our launches well, and our own safety record will protect us.

Sure, this was likely something not safe. Four kids in a parking lot aren't going to get us shut down by the man. Of course, I'd hate to be trying to start a college club right now.

I understand that WAS the case after 911 and the NAR had to calm down the feds from laying down any more restrictions.
 
I understand that WAS the case after 911 and the NAR had to calm down the feds from laying down any more restrictions.

Never heard that one before...and umm... this is a far, far cry from what that was. To the point it's comparison is insulting.
 
It's all about the handling of something with the potential to explode.

No, one is a small motor,

the other was terrorists crashing entire planes into an occupied building where 6,000+ people died.

point being, this event will have zero effect on us.


The sky is not falling
 
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No, one is a small motor,

the other was terrorists crashing entire planes into an occupied building where 6,000+ people died.

point being, this event will have zero effect on us.


The sky is not falling

I'm not claiming the sky is falling, it's the feds who think it is. There IS a thread of commonality here which involves rocket motors. Few people thought the feds would step in after 911 too.
 
And the ATF. So what? They investigate A LOT of things. Put the tin foil hats away.

I bet $50 it went like this-

(school admin) crap! Those kids did what? They'll have my head, call the FBI and atf
(atf/FBI) hello, yea. Kids playing with rockets? Oh no yes that sounds very serious. Yep yep we'll send someone. *click* hey some kids playing with rockets got hurt. Huh? No don't stop the poker game! Send that new kid Bob. I'm not dealing with this crap, and if Ken goes with them tell bob not to let him near the sorority houses! What? No I'm not telling you why. Just deal me in and tell bob to be back by the time it's his deal. And bring back coffee.
(Bob) oh GD! Fine. I'm spitting in your coffee after I bang a college chick. This badge has to be good for something.
 
Of coarse I've yet to hear of terrorists using model rocket motors for their use either, that didn't stop the feds from meddling. They're the paranoid ones.
 
I guess I don't understand the use of a pipe if that is what they did? Schools for sure would have money for normal rocketry motor cases. They must have just wanted to see how the mix would burn with out thrust. Why they fired the motor the way they did who knows? TRA and NAR would require at least 500' distance from anyone.

You just can't stop people from doing stupid things

I sure hope all who were hurt come through this ok
 
And the ATF. So what? They investigate A LOT of things. Put the tin foil hats away.

I bet $50 it went like this-

(school admin) crap! Those kids did what? They'll have my head, call the FBI and atf
(atf/FBI) hello, yea. Kids playing with rockets? Oh no yes that sounds very serious. Yep yep we'll send someone. *click* hey some kids playing with rockets got hurt. Huh? No don't stop the poker game! Send that new kid Bob. I'm not dealing with this crap, and if Ken goes with them tell bob not to let him near the sorority houses! What? No I'm not telling you why. Just deal me in and tell bob to be back by the time it's his deal. And bring back coffee.
(Bob) oh GD! Fine. I'm spitting in your coffee after I bang a college chick. This badge has to be good for something.

If you mean exactly like that, deal.
 
If you mean exactly like that, deal.

You know what I mean. they're going to see if they were terrorists, realize that they were kids who tested something poorly, write a one page report and toss it in a filing cabinet.
 
it always seems to be the 'bright ones' who get themselves into problems.
Rex
 
It will be nice to find out more facts. It doesn't surprise me that this happened at a educational facility since I have worked on a STEM program about composites where the school wanted to do just the minimums for the grant had the Art teacher as an advisor. Judging by what has been reported, all these folks were at the extreme amature level with no experience in proper experimentation and planning. It's not the 1920's anymore where you just go out and light up container full of chemicals to see how they react. Even in a Junior High, We can do computer modeling, mini simulation, and have available proven test procedures and excellent low cost video and data logging capability. I am again sad to hear this happened at a University, where we would expect more advanced levels of experimentation to occur.
 
I understand that WAS the case after 911 and the NAR had to calm down the feds from laying down any more restrictions.

Our problems with the BATF began before 9/11. NAR and Triploi's lawsuit against the BATF was filed in 2000.

-- Roger
 
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So part of the problem with smaller groups of engineering students and projects is lack of resources form the school. From personal experience, the universities aren't always willing to provide ample locations for testing when the lowly undergrads just want to test their designs. Part of it is liability and safety standards (i.e. paying for someone certified or certifying someone to be responsible for oversight). The other part has to do with the stigma of undergrads and the fact they aren't the big "research" group that draws grant money in. Many students may be told "You need to test to get an A in this class!" but are also told 'We don't have a place designated for this activity, go figure it out on your own!".

So the students do what they feel is safest (not always the case, but you get my point). Most projects likely go fine and you never hear about them. When they go bad, NOW everyone wants to be involved and questions why they were so dumb and what were the policies, etc, etc. It isn't until the university may have lawsuits on hand, pie on the face, and newscasters at the doorstep, that they then take action; and usually it's to reform the programs, clamp down on student"testing", and water down the possibility of any meaningful experience because instead of putting the $10k up front for a facility, they now have the potential for a $1M lawsuit.

Not saying the group didn't do something stupid (as evidence by matches and potential poor material choices), but the bureaucracy involved with having "safe" facilities for student use has gotten out of hand. We had (and still have) a machine shop at my old middle school and high school and rarely had injuries more severe than a cut or scrape. How can a bunch of sixth graders have access to those tools, yet a college sits there and can't help a senior design student by providing a relatively controlled testing environment with some basic safety gear?
 
So part of the problem with smaller groups of engineering students and projects is lack of resources form the school. From personal experience, the universities aren't always willing to provide ample locations for testing when the lowly undergrads just want to test their designs. Part of it is liability and safety standards (i.e. paying for someone certified or certifying someone to be responsible for oversight). The other part has to do with the stigma of undergrads and the fact they aren't the big "research" group that draws grant money in. Many students may be told "You need to test to get an A in this class!" but are also told 'We don't have a place designated for this activity, go figure it out on your own!".

So the students do what they feel is safest (not always the case, but you get my point). Most projects likely go fine and you never hear about them. When they go bad, NOW everyone wants to be involved and questions why they were so dumb and what were the policies, etc, etc. It isn't until the university may have lawsuits on hand, pie on the face, and newscasters at the doorstep, that they then take action; and usually it's to reform the programs, clamp down on student"testing", and water down the possibility of any meaningful experience because instead of putting the $10k up front for a facility, they now have the potential for a $1M lawsuit.

Not saying the group didn't do something stupid (as evidence by matches and potential poor material choices), but the bureaucracy involved with having "safe" facilities for student use has gotten out of hand. We had (and still have) a machine shop at my old middle school and high school and rarely had injuries more severe than a cut or scrape. How can a bunch of sixth graders have access to those tools, yet a college sits there and can't help a senior design student by providing a relatively controlled testing environment with some basic safety gear?

Moscow, Idaho, is a town surrounded by open land. It is not an Eastern Uni in the middle of a huge metropolitan area. A "safe" place is minutes away from the campus. They did it where they did from hubris and arrogance, just like using a freaking water pipe with a rated burst strength of around 200 PSI, big difference from tubing. Every U of I grad I ever met was a self-righteous SOB, once you get to know them.....
 
Moscow, Idaho, is a town surrounded by open land. It is not an Eastern Uni in the middle of a huge metropolitan area. A "safe" place is minutes away from the campus. They did it where they did from hubris and arrogance, just like using a freaking water pipe with a rated burst strength of around 200 PSI, big difference from tubing. Every U of I grad I ever met was a self-righteous SOB, once you get to know them.....

Was not meaning to absolve anyone of blame or otherwise. Sounds like they royally forked up. I was more making a generalization that it often takes high profile cases like this one to get academia to act, and usually in the wrong way regarding testing policy and experimentation. I remember trying to find places to test our small scale boat freshman year, and the official policy was to not use the campus fountain pond. "Well, where else do you suggest professor X?" *crickets*. So we did what all groups did and snuck out to the pond in the early hours of the morning to test, waiting for campus security to run us off. It just felt like we were being asked to do a bunch of work with no resources provided without extraordinary complications.

Regarding this incident, it seems that common sense was not-so-common among these individuals such that they were anywhere NEAR an experimental setup without proper distance/barrier protections. I'd have at least stood behind a car and remotely activated my "creation" if I were in similar circumstances. I mean, even Estes motors are lit remotely you dummies!
 

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