Multiple wires on one terminal. How do you do it?

I've always used Perfectflite altimeters where there are two terminal posts for the power, two for each charge, two for the switch. Recently a friend sold me an older Adept22. It requires a battery wire and one wire from each charge to be connected to the same terminal.

I use 22ga stranded wire and had a very difficult time getting the three wires twisted together and fitting securely into one terminal. I ended up adding a fourth wire. I took the three wires and the fourth, and used a small wire nut to connect the four of them. The fourth wire was then the single connection to the terminal on the altimeter.

My friend said he liked the Adept22 because it was so simple, but I'm beginning to really appreciate having a terminal for each wire on the Perfectflite altimeters.

Is there a better way to do this? How do you connect 3+ wires securely to an altimeter terminal?

Your approach with the 4th wire makes sense.

The Raven is the same way. That is why I use a Power Perch.

Maybe it is just my eyes fooling me, but some terminal blocks also seem smaller than others. The MARSA terminal jaws are challenging for me, even with just one wire! I agree, Perfectflite gives you very easy to use wiring options.

After twisting the wires together, tin them. (wick solder into the gaps between the stranded wire)

For the Adept 22 and Ravens, I just add a stand alone post. I use it as a central gathering point. The one in this photo is made from 4-40 stuff. You can place the post where ever you need/want.

Aiming for an April 1 release...

patelldp said:

Aiming for an April 1 release...

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A bus board like that above is THE secure way to do it. If you can find some screw terminal strips, just short as many together on the backside as you need. I use a homemade one similar for parallel air-start motor ignition.
-Ken

patelldp said:

Aiming for an April 1 release...

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What is it? An add-on board for Featherweight altimeters?

Buckeye said:

What is it? An add-on board for Featherweight altimeters?

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Correct. It's the Simple Circuit, an expansion board that gives you dedicated terminal blocks for all four of the Raven's outputs and dedicated battery and switch terminals.

Completely removes any complexity that comes with shared terminals...

Yes, there are different size terminals. Missileworks are smaller than those on the Adept22. I use my Adept22 regularly. It is reliable and simple. I only use it for apogee eject so far, so only 2 wires but I just twist em together. The binding post idea and the shorted terminal blocks will work great.

Please check the Adept web site which displays the simple altimeter circuit. Furthermore, Tommy (owner of Adept) sells reasonably priced harnesses designed specifically for the Adept 22 in multiple lengths (see: https://www.adeptrocketry.com/HAR22cart.htm ) . Also, the "box connectors" pictured in the provided link can be used as ematch connectors on the external surfaces of the av-bay bulkheads-which in turn means fewer connections & enabling the replacing of ematches before subsequent launches without the need to open the av-bay.

Fred,
L2, ROSCO
KG4YGP

Addendum: I have used the Adept 22 multiple times for dual deployment (utilizing harnesses similar to Tommy's) successfully without complications.

Fred

Incongruent said:

After twisting the wires together, tin them. (wick solder into the gaps between the stranded wire)

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The wires in question go to the battery, the forward and aft caps of the av bay. I wouldn't be able to disassemble the av-bay with out cutting and retinning. That might be a solution, but I'm looking for something a little different. Besides, the problem is the twisted wires are to big in a bundle to fit in the terminal. I don't think tinning will help.

tfish said:

For the Adept 22 and Ravens, I just add a stand alone post. I use it as a central gathering point. The one in this photo is made from 4-40 stuff. You can place the post where ever you need/want.

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I like that idea, but it kind of defeats the purpose of a terminal block. It is compact and workable though.

patelldp said:

Aiming for an April 1 release...

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Looks good. I would like to see those directly on the altimeter instead of another costly addon. In my case, I wouldn't be able to use it because of lack of room so I would be right back to the same problem.

FMarvinS said:

Please check the Adept web site which displays the simple altimeter circuit. Furthermore, Tommy (owner of Adept) sells reasonably priced harnesses designed specifically for the Adept 22 in multiple lengths (see: https://www.adeptrocketry.com/HAR22cart.htm ) . Also, the "box connectors" pictured in the provided link can be used as ematch connectors on the external surfaces of the av-bay bulkheads-which in turn means fewer connections & enabling the replacing of ematches before subsequent launches without the need to open the av-bay.

Fred,
L2, ROSCO
KG4YGP

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I like the idea of the harness, but how do you get the connectors out side the bay if the wires are connected together as pictured? I must me missing something, or do you need to assemble the harness if you use the box connectors outside the av-bay? That gets right back to my original problem. With one wire going to one cap, and the other to the the other cap, how do you disassemble the av-bay without cutting and having to resolder wires? Kind of defeats the purpose of the harness.

FMarvinS said:

Addendum: I have used the Adept 22 multiple times for dual deployment (utilizing harnesses similar to Tommy's) successfully without complications.

Fred

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I'm glad you have good luck with the Adept22. I'm thinking I'm not going to be using it any longer. I'll caulk up the money I spent as a lesson learned.
The first flight the main opened at 1200 ft because I didn't remove the jumper. The power up sequence doesn't report that main opening altitude so I never caught that.
The second flight, I lost the lower half of my rocket when the apogee charge didn't fire and the fincan slammed into the ground after the main finally opened too low. I didn't or couldn't tell from the beeps after power up that one of the charges was not sensed. The beeps are too fast for my old and slow senses.
The other thing I don't like is it doesn't report battery voltage on power up. I don't open or replace batteries until they are reported at below 9 volts. Since the Adept22 doesn't report battery voltage, that makes it higher maintenance for me.
Maybe I'll use it as a primary on a dual altimeter setup, but between the multi-wire terminal issues, the fast and hard to determine beeping sequence, and lack of reported info on power up I think I'll probably shelf this one for a while.

On one of my sleds I have a 4 wire JST-type connector (socket) on my sled with all the wiring soldered to that. And the 4 wires on the plug are in my Adept22. Its plug-n-play so I can move it between boards quickly. But don't have to now, I have more altimeters than I can fly in one day.

Hate to hear you had bad luck with yours, I know what you mean about the jumpers, forgot them myself...twice . Grab you a RRC2+. Small and simple. Just remember the DIP switches.

Mikey D

Handeman said:

I like that idea, but it kind of defeats the purpose of a terminal block. It is compact and workable though.

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That's how I did it when I had a Raven. Separate terminal block to attach the 3 wires then only one wire goes to the tiny terminal on the Raven. Since then I have switched to Missleworks altimeters. They may not have four pyro channels and an accelerometer like the Raven, but the wiring is a little simpler.

i'm sorry you had some mishaps with the Adept 22. However, please see the following description of how to place the box connectors on the outer surface of the AV bulkheads-this was copied from the description of the use of the harness from the link previously provided: " The ends of the two wire pairs that connect to the two deployment charges include a box connector. The ends of the deployment charge leads plug into these box connectors directly, so an additional terminal block or other connection gimmick is not necessary. The box connectors typically are brought out through holes in the two end bulkheads of the Altimeter Chamber. (Seal the holes where the wires pass through the bulkheads with putty or epoxy.) The ends of the deployment charge leads can easily be plugged into the box connectors. Strip the ends of the wires back about a half inch. "

Regards,
Fred

FMarvinS said:

i'm sorry you had some mishaps with the Adept 22. However, please see the following description of how to place the box connectors on the outer surface of the AV bulkheads-this was copied from the description of the use of the harness from the link previously provided: " The ends of the two wire pairs that connect to the two deployment charges include a box connector. The ends of the deployment charge leads plug into these box connectors directly, so an additional terminal block or other connection gimmick is not necessary. The box connectors typically are brought out through holes in the two end bulkheads of the Altimeter Chamber. (Seal the holes where the wires pass through the bulkheads with putty or epoxy.) The ends of the deployment charge leads can easily be plugged into the box connectors. Strip the ends of the wires back about a half inch. "

Regards,
Fred

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Thanks... but I'm not sure that is what I was looking for. Once you have the wires through the bulkheads, and of course running through the tube of the av-bay, how do you get the wires disconnected from each other or the bulkheads so you can separate things and disassemble the bay? The wires to the pyro channels for both matches are connected in the harness. To get the bulkheads and av-bay tube disassembled, you have to disconnect the wires, either from the harness or the bulkhead.

The Adept 22 harness (please see diagram found at: https://www.adeptrocketry.com/HAR22cart.htm, I couldn't upload it here ) is provided in lengths of up to 18 inches. So, if the harness is screwed into the terminal block of the Adept 22, then the box connectors can be passed through the pre-drilled bulkhead holes to reside outside of the AV-bay. The 18 inch length, in most cases, would provide enough wire length to remove the bulkhead to get to the altimeter without causing problems with the wire leads. If a disassembly of the AV bay is required, then the leads can be unscrewed from the Adept 22's terminal block to free up all connections. Furthermore, if 18 inches leads are not enough length, I'm quite sure Tommy would gladly make longer ones if needed. I originally approached Tommy to offer 18 inch length harness leads for use in some applications. He readily responded to my request. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Fred

Putting 2, 3, or even 4 wires into a Raven screw terminal is pretty easy if the wire isn't oversized. I recommend AWG26 to AWG30 for most rocketry applications. (if you do the math, resistance in those sizes isn't a problem) Most rocketeers use AWG20 or AWG22, however, which don't work as well with the small terminals. As for the Simple Circuit, I hope they did a good job on it and it makes people happy. I can't vouch for it because I was not involved with its development in any way. When I made the Power Perch, I thought it would be a better value to provide a solution that also provides the switch and the battery to eliminate all user wiring. Just hook up your ematches to the Raven+Power perch and go. I think I underestimated how much of the Power Perch's appeal just comes from having a single terminal for each wire, and good for the Simple Switch people for capitalizing on that.

an unlimited number of wires can be connected by using a couple inches of appropriate gauge wire inserted into common terminal. solder ALL the commons to this pigtail and insulate soldered connection. I bring for example, all of the commons from my jst plugs to that pigtail. the other wire on each jst goes to main,apogee,aux, etc. as needed. Nothing could be easier!

warnerr said:

an unlimited number of wires can be connected by using a couple inches of appropriate gauge wire inserted into common terminal. solder ALL the commons to this pigtail and insulate soldered connection. I bring for example, all of the commons from my jst plugs to that pigtail. the other wire on each jst goes to main,apogee,aux, etc. as needed. Nothing could be easier!

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That is exactly what I don't want to do, solder them together. One of the wires goes to the aft cap of the av-bay, the other wire goes through the av-bay and to the forward cap. You can't take things apart easily, without un-soldering, in that situation because the caps are connected to each other, through the av-bay, which the caps won't fit through. Granted it may not need to be done very often, but I like the idea of being able to disassemble the av-bay easily.

thats why each soldered wire terminates with connectors (jst on small rockets or locking connectors for large rockets), the connectors pigtails are soldered- it simply plugs into each avbay to appropriate receiving connectors. that lead to batteries or charge wells. Connector sexes insure no mixups possible. Good luck on your build👍.

warnerr said:

thats why each soldered wire terminates with connectors (jst on small rockets or locking connectors for large rockets), the connectors pigtails are soldered- it simply plugs into each avbay to appropriate receiving connectors. that lead to batteries or charge wells. Connector sexes insure no mixups possible. Good luck on your build��.

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Actually, the rocket was trashed on the second flight. The apogee charge never fired and the main opened at 300 ft and 300 mph. Not good results

Handeman said:

Actually, the rocket was trashed on the second flight. The apogee charge never fired and the main opened at 300 ft and 300 mph. Not good results

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sorry for your loss- no fun. any headway on cause of failure?

Not yet. I haven't pulled the av-bay apart yet. The match fired fine using a AA battery at the field so it was either a bad connection or a bad connection.... I don't believe it was an altimeter issue and the match was obviously good, so that's the only thing I can think it might be. The first flight had worked perfectly but the main was at the wrong altitude. I disassembled the av-bay to pull a jumper off the Adept22. When it went back together or one of the match leads didn't make the right connection. At least that's all I can think of.