E12-0s blow up

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I rigged up a test stand and fired off the remaining E12s and they all blew up. The date code on them is 05-15-12. btw, What does CATO stand for?

Regards,
MDR

Can't all test OK
 
I rigged up a test stand and fired off the remaining E12s and they all blew up. The date code on them is 05-15-12. btw, What does CATO stand for?

Regards,
MDR
Oh, that's not good at all... I have three E12-0s with that date code, so I have the potential privilege of blowing up a two-stage rocket. That would be bad for both the rocket and for the audience of a possibly ignited 2nd stage with damaged fins.
 
I plan to test one out if I buy a pack. Definitely a warm weather flying motor.

Problem is, I can't use it in my Magician cuz I'm rather fond of it and it goes over a quarter of a mile up with no room for a CR. (trees abound)
And the only other 24mm rockets I have are my Falcon 9 and a Blackstar Voyager which I definitely DON't want to play E-roulette with.


**this is the best thread title I've read too**
 
I plan to test one out if I buy a pack. Definitely a warm weather flying motor.

Problem is, I can't use it in my Magician cuz I'm rather fond of it and it goes over a quarter of a mile up with no room for a CR. (trees abound)
And the only other 24mm rockets I have are my Falcon 9 and a Blackstar Voyager which I definitely DON't want to play E-roulette with.


**this is the best thread title I've read too**

Wait a bit. Mr. Beans is coming out with a smaller version of the CR that might work for you. Kurt
 
Wait a bit. Mr. Beans is coming out with a smaller version of the CR that might work for you. Kurt

I know! It could be great!

By "a bit" you're talking around at least next year if I interpret his foreshadowing correctly.
 
These motors appear to be more grenade than motor. Perhaps it is time to stop buying and flying them. Novel concept.
 
Just stick with composite motors, you can use E-11 reloads, or in the RC 24mm casing, E-12's which don't have an ejection charge/delay element.
aerotech also sells single use E-15P 3 packs.

I recommend the aerotech motors only in my rc rocket glider kits(mine are lighter than the astro blaster so I use the E-6 RC motor. I just had a customer fry one of his rc rocket gliders using an E-9.

Frank

I am unfamiliar with Aerotech motors so could you lead me by the hand a bit in understanding what I need for my Astro Blaster?

You mention the E-11 reload. I checked the Aerotech web site and they advertise an E-11-3J. Is this what I want?

You also mentioned the RC 24mm casing. What is this? How is it different that the E-11-3J. Which is better or cheaper the E-11 or E-12?

Sorry to be so dumb about these motors so I greatly appreciate your help.

Regards,
MDR
 
The RC motors don't have a delay, so they won't have a number after the dash...

https://www.aerotechstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_10_13

The case cost hurts with the RC cases. But it's a one time thing. I think you can get better prices elsewhere, that was just an obvious site in the search.

There was talk of an RC plugged closure for the regular 24/40 RMS case, which is much cheaper. I don't know if it ever happened though.

Here's the single use motors mentioned..

https://www.aerotechstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_5_22&products_id=30
 
I am unfamiliar with Aerotech motors so could you lead me by the hand a bit in understanding what I need for my Astro Blaster?

You mention the E-11 reload. I checked the Aerotech web site and they advertise an E-11-3J. Is this what I want?

You also mentioned the RC 24mm casing. What is this? How is it different that the E-11-3J. Which is better or cheaper the E-11 or E-12?

Sorry to be so dumb about these motors so I greatly appreciate your help.

Regards,
MDR

I found another three pack of E-120s and they all blew up in testing,

MDR
 
Why the E-12s are not banned I don't know. Until someone gets hurt nothing will be done. Like Mark said fill out a MESS report.
 
If people are following the safety code, they won't get hurt. If they aren't, they've forfeited their right to complain. Raising this to the level of mass hysteria accomplishes nothing.

Why the E-12s are not banned I don't know. Until someone gets hurt nothing will be done. Like Mark said fill out a MESS report.
 
The plugged closure got put on the back burner by Aerotech.

Frank

You can use the standard e-11-3 or f-12 in the regular 24mm casing. Just don't put in any black powder, they are approx the same as the e12 rc motor but have the delay element.
 
I cannot understand why these motors are still on the market either. Estes should pull them, and either leave them gone, or redesign them.
 
I cannot understand why these motors are still on the market either. Estes should pull them, and either leave them gone, or redesign them.

Unless the mess reports reflect a high incidence of catos the certifying authority has no reason to force a recall. If the problems are not being reported to Estes they would have no reason to pull them. How many have been turned in?


Steve Shannon
 
I don't fly any BP motor past a D-12 size because of the failure rate. If I need E, F, or G power, I'm flying a reload or SU APCP. I know there's those that love them, but for a performance decrease and failure increase, it seems not worth the risk to me.


Later!

--Coop
 
Unless the mess reports reflect a high incidence of catos the certifying authority has no reason to force a recall. If the problems are not being reported to Estes they would have no reason to pull them. How many have been turned in?


Steve Shannon

Steve, as you know I am very aware of this. There are many reports- the issue seems to be getting people to do mess reports. I have personally seen many fail...
 
I am sure Estes knows about their E12 problems. Would guess they have replaced a lot of motors and kits free of charge. When one of the E12s hurt someone or start a major fire they will do something than but not until.
 
Steve, as you know I am very aware of this. There are many reports- the issue seems to be getting people to do mess reports. I have personally seen many fail...

At our club we instituted the practice of having one person file any and all mess reports in order to make sure they get done.
The problem with social media is that you never know whether you're seeing one report sixteen times, sixteen reports once, or most likely something in between. That's why those reports cannot be used. So even though you've seen many fail it's still not actionable.
I do know that you know this, Mark. I wasn't questioning that, but others who read these posts still need reminders.
If there's a better way I'd like to know.
 
That sounds like a great idea, assuming you can get somebody to volunteer to do it. The reality is that most E12 (and E9) users aren't into hobby rocketry enough yet to know about MESS reports and their importance, so they're not going to do it on their own. You KNOW if a 6G 54mm cato's it's going to be reported, because a L2 is gonna want to get their $150 load replaced. I suspect that there is a large percentage, maybe the majority, of E9/E12 cato's that are unreported. I have personally had them cato on me, and I have seen a number of them too; whenever the LCO announces a flight on one of them at ROC, it ususally gets called as a heads-up.
 
At our club we instituted the practice of having one person file any and all mess reports in order to make sure they get done.
The problem with social media is that you never know whether you're seeing one report sixteen times, sixteen reports once, or most likely something in between. That's why those reports cannot be used. So even though you've seen many fail it's still not actionable.
I do know that you know this, Mark. I wasn't questioning that, but others who read these posts still need reminders.
If there's a better way I'd like to know.

Steve, the idea of having one person do it for a launch is a great idea. I might have to bring that up with my local club(s).

I can say from my own experience that these motors have a high failure rate. I have only flown five and 3 of those went boom. I did not mistreat or handle them.
 
This is the list of date codes that I have for bad E motors. I have not seen an update in a while.

E9
09-04-12
06-28-11
06-14-01 A
A 01 12 16
A 09 15 14
A 1-12-16

E12
A 08-18-11
A 11 15 11

Thank you for posting this, I'll have to check mine
 
Steve, the idea of having one person do it for a launch is a great idea. I might have to bring that up with my local club(s).

I can say from my own experience that these motors have a high failure rate. I have only flown five and 3 of those went boom. I did not mistreat or handle them.

Mark,
I would never assume that you or anyone else mistreat motors. Even if you did mistreat motors you probably wouldn't mistreat only these motors. [emoji848]



Steve Shannon
 
Based on what I have read in this topic, I became somewhat concerned about some E12s that I had bought at LDRS 36 and was planning to use on a newly built Estes Vagabond.

I just tested one of the E12-6s [code A 06 22 12] and was please to see that it performed as expected - no motor failure. I know it's but one data point but it's on the positive side.
 
OK, so the new list is

C11
A 11 08 10
A 06 28 11

E9
09-04-12
06-28-11
06-14-01 A
A 06 28 11 1
A 01 12 16
A 09 15 14
A 1-12-16

E12
A 08-18-11
A 11 15 11 (E12-0 & others?)
A 04 02 12 (E12-8 & others?)
05-15-12

Are these date codes? If so, they span a lot of years. Great, all my E9's and E12's fall in these ranges.

I do think mishandling (thermal cycling) plays a role. I had bad luck buying motors from onsite vendors whose inventory looks like it sits in the back of their van all year long.
 
Are these date codes? If so, they span a lot of years. Great, all my E9's and E12's fall in these ranges.

I do think mishandling (thermal cycling) plays a role. I had bad luck buying motors from onsite vendors whose inventory looks like it sits in the back of their van all year long.

I did a cluster of 19 E-12's, they were plugged with epoxy (good tough low shrink epoxy), flash pan ignition, 19 for 19 lit, perfect flight.

I wonder if you had a doomed batch OR if they were mishandled

Mike K.

29597977274_c45a6705fa_z.jpg29597981334_b0774112c0_z.jpgDSC_0699.jpg before you got them.
 
I just want to say that being able to google "E12 blow up" and be directed straight here for a list of motor bombs is hilariously useful.
 
Multiple CATOs of E9-6s with known bad date code of 01-12-16 in this video, blowing up a scratch built, radio controlled, tube launched (in part 3 video) semi-scale Javelin missile. Also CATOed in a static test:

[video=youtube;4Wj8y2RYyhc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wj8y2RYyhc[/video]
 
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