Back yard shop

ColumbiaNX01 said:

That is a great idea. If I build my maximum sq ft of 1000 I can have sectioned off area. A floor drain is a great idea. I could wash off tools or was the truck or rv inside.

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Remember, garages are sloped for the water that runs off a wet vehicle. Not the volume of water that is used to was a car. Most garages have a about a 3" drop/curb to the part of the garage that slopes to the door. In other words, if you enter the garage from the house, you will have a level area at least 3' from the wall opposite the garage door. Then the 3" step-down. At this point the floor sloops to the garage door. The slope is not that steep, because of the small amount of water that will drip of the vehicle. Installing a drain will add to the cost! The cost will be decided by where you drain to (not to mention government (EPA) regs about where it drains to) the lay of the land and what size type drain! The cost effective approach is to use the standard garage step down and slope.

Will you have a paint booth?

TALON said:

Remember, garages are sloped for the water that runs off a wet vehicle. Not the volume of water that is used to was a car. Most garages have a about a 3" drop/curb to the part of the garage that slopes to the door. In other words, if you enter the garage from the house, you will have a level area at least 3' from the wall opposite the garage door. Then the 3" step-down. At this point the floor sloops to the garage door. The slope is not that steep, because of the small amount of water that will drip of the vehicle. Installing a drain will add to the cost! The cost will be decided by where you drain to (not to mention government (EPA) regs about where it drains to) the lay of the land and what size type drain! The cost effective approach is to use the standard garage step down and slope.

Will you have a paint booth?

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I like painting rockets. but i dont know if i would go to the trouble of a paint booth. i dont paint often. maybe a makeshift one with hanging plastic sheets which i have done before in my garage. it will be heated and cooled. i will have to figure that part out. have to have a complete separate ventilation.

Let's just say a real booth with an effective exhaust fan makes a huge difference in painting.
Make a dreaded task easy-peazy.

FredA said:

Let's just say a real booth with an effective exhaust fan makes a huge difference in painting.
Make a dreaded task easy-peazy.

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Amen

If you decide to go with a wood frame you might give these guys a shot. They'll work for peanuts and aren't afraid of heights.

[video=youtube;vssqb-0i2-A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vssqb-0i2-A[/video]

FredA said:

Those boxes are cool .... but....
Only if you remember to always unplug everything and close them.
Only if the seals remain intact - how waterproof are they going to be in 10 years????

Hanging cord retractable cord reels from the ceiling seems like a much more logical thing to do. IMO

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Hanging cords can get in the way of items like a table saw...

AdAstraPerAspera said:

Hanging cords can get in the way of items like a table saw...

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+1, however they are nice near work benches/tables and near the parking area for vehicles. Really the shop should be laid out prior to construction to determine where all the pieces will go and then the determination can be made as to where to put power, and air, and dust collection (which with a table saw is best done through the floor/or in a channel.

I have gotten reasonable estimates. For a steel building for the kit itself would be the cheapest. But then the cost comes in to pay a professional to construct it. Then the concrete, plus electrical. I am estimating that I could build it for less then 20,000 bucks. No windows just an overhead door plus a side door. Would love an HVAC system. But a large window A/C would work. Possibly a wood burning stove.

$20k, depending on how much ya DIY, should get ya a pretty nice wood framed shop. electrical really isn't that hard to do either and would save quite a bit of money DIY. maybe just someone more specialized to get the power into the shop and set up the breaker panel.could use that money for HVAC.
concrete work though....after a few years doing that and roofing I found im allergic to both- I break out in pain.

ColumbiaNX01 said:

Possibly a wood burning stove.

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If that's a consideration, then your location is wrong. :wink: Lol!

TangoJuliet said:

If that's a consideration, then your location is wrong. :wink: Lol!

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What do you mean? In the winter here in Oklahoma it can get cold. There is nothing worse than working are rockets in the cold.

Andrew

If it were my shop, I'd consider a split-mini heat pump.

A woodstove won't KEEP your shop warm enough to stop condensation.
Rusty tools suck.....

ColumbiaNX01 said:

What do you mean? In the winter here in Oklahoma it can get cold. There is nothing worse than working are rockets in the cold.

Andrew

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I was teasing about it getting cold enough to need a wood burning stove and being in "God's Country". Obviously, you haven't gone far enough south to be in God's Country. But I'm biased. I grew up in the north and served time in the military in the frozen tundra of North Dakota... God's forsaken country if you ask me!

TangoJuliet said:

I was teasing about it getting cold enough to need a wood burning stove and being in "God's Country". Obviously, you haven't gone far enough south to be in God's Country. But I'm biased. I grew up in the north and served time in the military in the frozen tundra of North Dakota... God's forsaken country if you ask me!

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LOL its all good. There are far worse places to live than in Oklahoma.

FredA said:

If it were my shop, I'd consider a split-mini heat pump.

A woodstove won't KEEP your shop warm enough to stop condensation.
Rusty tools suck.....

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Cool. Good point. Are those those ductless systems that have the thing on the wall and then there are pipes that run outside to he compressor?

Put electrical outlets every 4 ft and you will have enough outlets conveniently located for most of your needs.

Mightyrocketman said:

Put electrical outlets every 4 ft and you will have enough outlets conveniently located for most of your needs.

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Plus having an overhead vacuum system. They come in nice when working with wood to clean up sod dust.

FredA said:

If it were my shop, I'd consider a split-mini heat pump.

A woodstove won't KEEP your shop warm enough to stop condensation.
Rusty tools suck.....

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I did the rough install on a Mitsubishi ductless heat pump in my garage. I had a professional come out to do the final pump down and charging of the system, but the rest was straight forward. The thing works great, and doesn't struggle to maintain 70 deg on a 105 deg day...I could probably run the temp down into the low 60s easily if I wanted to. It also has no problem heating to 70 deg on a 15 deg night. The electrical usage is really low as they have a very high SEER rating (mine is 22.5 I think). My electric bill actually went down in the summer, presumable because the attached garage was baking the rest of the house...as you are doing a detached build you won't see a reduction in cost, but you get what I'm saying; they are really affordable to operate. They are a bit spendy up front, but they solve heating and cooling in one small unit, and the long term cost to operate is low, so if you plan to stay in that house/shop long I suspect the costs work out favorably. Plus you don't have to spend time futzing with wood, pellets, etc. Mine space is near the maximum size recommendation for the unit, but I could have easily gotten away with smaller.

https://www.acwholesalers.com is where I got mine, and I was very happy with them as a vendor. All in I was less than $2k on the unit, and the installed quote I got from an HVAC company was near $5k, so you can save a lot buying this direct and performing the basic install yourself.

Yes - the Doktor answered it well - great performance and pretty easy install.
A friend put one I his shop that he just finished this summer and it is very nice.
I believe he went with a Mitsubishi unit also.

FredA said:

Yes - the Doktor answered it well - great performance and pretty easy install.
A friend put one I his shop that he just finished this summer and it is very nice.
I believe he went with a Mitsubishi unit also.

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The Mitsubishi is more expensive, but the research I did led me to believe they were highly reliable (which was my major consideration). The guy who commissioned it said to call them if our other unit ever needs work, but he'd "never see this one again" referring to the Ductless.

FredA said:

Yes - the Doktor answered it well - great performance and pretty easy install.
A friend put one I his shop that he just finished this summer and it is very nice.
I believe he went with a Mitsubishi unit also.

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Is there a website for those? Do they have a chart that says for X amount of sq footage? I have heard they are a combo heat and cool. How does one of these compare in efficiency? Not price just how well they heat and cool a specific area.

I think this is the rule of thumb kinda thing (https://mitsubishiacdealers.com/info/what-size-system). Insulation matters of course. I use a 12k for a 450 sq ft area with decent, but not extraordinary insulation (walls R12, ceiling R19 I think). Like I said, I don't stress my system at all, even on very hot and cold days.

350 square feet = 9,000 BTU
500 square feet = 12,000 BTU
750 square feet = 18,000 BTU
1000 square feet = 24,000 BTU
1250 square feet = 30,000 BTU
1500 square feet = 36,000 BTU

The Mitsubishi models are very efficient, look at the SEER rating (20+) versus a standard central air (13-15).

tmacklin said:

If you decide to go with a wood frame you might give these guys a shot. They'll work for peanuts and aren't afraid of heights.

[video=youtube;vssqb-0i2-A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vssqb-0i2-A[/video]

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Yeah, but they're hard to get out of the Library.

Cl(VII) said:

I think this is the rule of thumb kinda thing (https://mitsubishiacdealers.com/info/what-size-system). Insulation matters of course. I use a 12k for a 450 sq ft area with decent, but not extraordinary insulation (walls R12, ceiling R19 I think). Like I said, I don't stress my system at all, even on very hot and cold days.

350 square feet = 9,000 BTU
500 square feet = 12,000 BTU
750 square feet = 18,000 BTU
1000 square feet = 24,000 BTU
1250 square feet = 30,000 BTU
1500 square feet = 36,000 BTU

The Mitsubishi models are very efficient, look at the SEER rating (20+) versus a standard central air (13-15).

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Thanks. I know when you build the steel building stock it comes with just regular insulation. I know guys who have built steel buildings like I want to do. Then they add a lot of extra insulation to make it even more tight. Thats what I plan to do. I plan to keep the heat always on in winter and summer keep the a/c on. Keep them low of course when not in use, but keep the temp at a steady temperature so things can stay okay inside.

Decisions decisions!

boatgeek said:

Yeah, but they're hard to get out of the Library.

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That is cool! Al be a monkeys uncle!!

ColumbiaNX01 said:

Thanks. I know when you build the steel building stock it comes with just regular insulation. I know guys who have built steel buildings like I want to do. Then they add a lot of extra insulation to make it even more tight. Thats what I plan to do. I plan to keep the heat always on in winter and summer keep the a/c on. Keep them low of course when not in use, but keep the temp at a steady temperature so things can stay okay inside.

Decisions decisions!

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The hold temp feature works really well especially during the spring/fall when you are up and down. I set it to 70 and if it is using AC it will stay in that mode until the temp reached 66, then it will switch to heat. Same for heating, It will stay with heat until you reach 74, then it switches to AC. I like this as it doesn't try to micromanage the temp switching back and forth every time you are 1 deg off, thereby almost constantly trying to correct itself. One thing you may want to plan for is adding a dedicated dehumidifier. This isn't really an issue except when you get those really humid mid-70s days. Those days the AC doesn't run enough to effectively dehumidify, and you have to switch the ductless into Dehumidify mode...not a real issue, but something I wish I would have installed when I had the wall open.

My only other shop advice is to repeat what others have said, you can never have too many plugs. I put one about every 4 ft, and I added two retractable extension cords (one to the ceiling over the work bench in the middle of the room, and another at the garage door to service the driveway).

ColumbiaNX01 said:

That is cool! Al be a monkeys uncle!!

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Most authorities say that he's less likely to pull your arms off if you call him an ape.