Yikes- Fire, sparks, and pops from my entertinment system...

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Yep,,
That's exactly it Mark...
This was a smokin receiver BEFORE HDMI...
What a shame,, I guess it's a good point somebody said,,
it belongs in the garage hooked up to a decent pair of speakers...

Technology drives value...

Teddy

I'm in the same situation with my old receiver. It works perfectly, but I wanted an AV receiver with HDMI, so I upgraded. I'm not sure what I will do with the old one. Usually what happens is I end up giving things like this away to family. I can't store things I don't need. I absolutely refuse to throw away things that are still useful. And often you can't sell stuff for more than the effort involved in doing it --- if the receiver is worth less than 100 bucks, how much time do I want to spend trying to get that 100 bucks if I can get the receiver out of my garage today by giving it away?
 
I would go with another digital spec like display port with fiber and toslink for audio, over HDMI any day. HDMI has a signal issue with the spec that causes a delay while HDMI finally realizes that there is a device connected, which dives me nuts.
 
I would go with another digital spec like display port with fiber and toslink for audio, over HDMI any day. HDMI has a signal issue with the spec that causes a delay while HDMI finally realizes that there is a device connected, which dives me nuts.

Maybe a couple of seconds in most cases. Not really a big deal...patience.
 
I'm still getting the audio to the new system set up, but we did watch a movie last night with just the front speakers and center channel.

The picture on the TV is absolutely beautiful! The detail in the 4K display is incredible, colors are great, and motion is good. Our previous TV was a 55", but the image did not go all the way to the edge. This one is 65", and the image is the entire screen, so it seems HUGE! I'm really happy with the TV.

So far, cabling everything together has has been a lot easier this time than in the past. HDMI has been around for awhile, but this is the first time I've done a full setup of all the components in one shot using HDMI. It's a big improvement.

Even without the subwoofer and rear speakers set up, and without the calibration step, the audio is pretty nice. There's a lot of audio detail we had been were missing out on, and it's probably due to ancient speakers getting tired. Dialog was nice and clear and I could really notice a difference with hearing little details in the quiet scenes.

One thing I'm hoping to be able to correct is that the different audio inputs seem to come in at vastly different volumes. Watching something on regular cable, it's about what you would expect --- a comfortable volume is at the middle of the range, and there is plenty of room to turn it up. The movie we watched was on Netflix streaming through our Apple TV, and the volume is much, MUCH lower on that input than it is on the cable input. We had the volume cranked almost all the way to the 0dB level on the receiver, and it was not as loud as we sometimes like. Of course, then we forgot about that, switched inputs back to cable and nearly blew up the house! Watching a DVD seemed very quiet too. There was some jump in levels between inputs on our old receiver, but not like this. I haven't even got started reading about the features of this receiver, so I'm hoping there is a way to adjust volume for the different inputs.

Next at up is running speaker wire under the house or through the attic for the rears and hooking up the new sub. Then there is a feature on this receiver that allows it to do a self-equalization and surround sound calibration. Should be interesting.
 
I'm in the same situation with my old receiver. It works perfectly, but I wanted an AV receiver with HDMI, so I upgraded. I'm not sure what I will do with the old one. Usually what happens is I end up giving things like this away to family. I can't store things I don't need. I absolutely refuse to throw away things that are still useful. And often you can't sell stuff for more than the effort involved in doing it --- if the receiver is worth less than 100 bucks, how much time do I want to spend trying to get that 100 bucks if I can get the receiver out of my garage today by giving it away?

Haha,,
Me toooo,,,
I'm the exact same..
Can't throw it away if it still works..
Heck,, I have trouble throwing something away that has a relatively minor problem that can be fixed by the right person...
Everything is so expensive when you have to buy it...

The Denon 3805 was such a drool over smokin receiver in it's day...
Such a shame...

Teddy
 
Maybe a couple of seconds in most cases. Not really a big deal...patience.

Well it's not limited to patience, which I admit I could use more of.

HDMI has an inherent handshake issue where the source device needs to retrieve the EDID information from the display. However if the display is off or on but switched to sleep because it did not sense a signal or was just switched to another interface, then this can result in anything from delays to no display at all.

Bottom line the HDMI standard is not my first choice if there are other digital standards mutually available on both devices that will not result in a bottleneck for performance such as display port 1.4, then I will use them.
 
Then there is a feature on this receiver that allows it to do a self-equalization and surround sound calibration. Should be interesting.

If you let the eq calibration set the levels for the sub be prepared for anemic bass. You will have to go in and turn up the sub level, this is normal and something everyone who knows what sub levels should be, complains about.
 
If you let the eq calibration set the levels for the sub be prepared for anemic bass. You will have to go in and turn up the sub level, this is normal and something everyone who knows what sub levels should be, complains about.

My Pioneer AV has the MCACC setup...you place a microphone where you want it, usually close to your listening position or someplace central in the room, and it cycles white noise through each channel several times and auto adjusts the volume for each channel to an "optimum" level for the surround codec spec...how well it works is up to each individual person. Mine did everything well but the center channel and sub....both of those needed a little bump for my tastes.

One of the great things about HDMI is the reduction of cable clutter backside. Just one cable for each device and one to the TV....those and power are it. Compared to what used to be back there with analog cables and tape loops....oh yeah, I'll take it.

My receiver also has a delay optimization setting for audio sync. I have not needed it but in some cases it's needed.
 
Well it's not limited to patience, which I admit I could use more of.

HDMI has an inherent handshake issue where the source device needs to retrieve the EDID information from the display. However if the display is off or on but switched to sleep because it did not sense a signal or was just switched to another interface, then this can result in anything from delays to no display at all.

Bottom line the HDMI standard is not my first choice if there are other digital standards mutually available on both devices that will not result in a bottleneck for performance such as display port 1.4, then I will use them.

I get it, and am aware of the issue you speak of. Point is that the issue is pretty much decided. DisplayPort largely lost the war as far as consumer electronics. A few monitors and video cards and such have it.
 
HDMI hasn't the bandwidth for 4k @ 144hz. DP / Lightning / USB-C appear headed toward a PCI-E-like frankenbeast which will take a while to settle.
 
Neither DP or HDMI have sufficient BW for [email protected] HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.4 top out at 3840x2160@60Hz.

DP was developed as a royalty-free alternative to HDMI but lacks some of the more sophisticated signals such as the ARC and Ethernet but adding in multi-monitor support for applications where you are driving multiple low(er) resolution monitors...but who has BW to spare?

I believe it was Dell that drove the new standard to save a buck....literally, a buck.

BOTH require a handshake in order to carry HDCP protected content.
 
It's hard to get rid of some things...I still have all my old Carver gear except the power amps....a couple TFM55's. The stack is sitting in a closet....I just can't bring myself to moving them along.

My Carver equipment is still in service. Although I have replaced all of the electrolytic caps (the TX-11 was a chore) and even upgraded the C-1 to a regulated supply.
 
Well it's not limited to patience, which I admit I could use more of.

HDMI has an inherent handshake issue where the source device needs to retrieve the EDID information from the display. However if the display is off or on but switched to sleep because it did not sense a signal or was just switched to another interface, then this can result in anything from delays to no display at all.

Bottom line the HDMI standard is not my first choice if there are other digital standards mutually available on both devices that will not result in a bottleneck for performance such as display port 1.4, then I will use them.

In my previous setup, I had bought the receiver before HDMI was available, and the receiver was audio only, no video. Over the years, I had various configurations with that receiver, depending on the other components at different times and two different TVs with different kinds of inputs. With the last TV, as I added new HDMI capable components over time, I ended up running those to the HDMI capable TV, and then using an optical cable out of the TV to the receiver. I believe that was the only way to get a digital audio input into the receiver from more than 1 source on that receiver. That worked fine, and I don't recall ever noticing any kind of delay or display problems.

Hopefully the new setup will work in a satisfactory way. I'm really not at all familiar with the standards, what they are called, or what the capabilities and trade offs are. I don't keep up with it, and anytime I need to replace a component, every few years, I always have to ask the sales people a lot of questions about the new standards and what is compatible with what I already have. This is the first new receiver in 16 years and the first new TV in about 6 (I think). So there was a bit of new jargon and concepts to absorb. As long as it looks and sounds pretty good, and is simple to set up and use, I'm going to be very happy.

If you let the eq calibration set the levels for the sub be prepared for anemic bass. You will have to go in and turn up the sub level, this is normal and something everyone who knows what sub levels should be, complains about.

I'll keep that in mind. The sales guy told me the same thing. He said the automatic eq is a good place to start, but often people like to adjust it for their own tastes.

My Pioneer AV has the MCACC setup...you place a microphone where you want it, usually close to your listening position or someplace central in the room, and it cycles white noise through each channel several times and auto adjusts the volume for each channel to an "optimum" level for the surround codec spec...how well it works is up to each individual person. Mine did everything well but the center channel and sub....both of those needed a little bump for my tastes.

One of the great things about HDMI is the reduction of cable clutter backside. Just one cable for each device and one to the TV....those and power are it. Compared to what used to be back there with analog cables and tape loops....oh yeah, I'll take it.

My receiver also has a delay optimization setting for audio sync. I have not needed it but in some cases it's needed.

Thats how my Pioneer works as well. I haven't done it yet, because I still have speakers to set up, but that's how it was described --- put a microphone into the listening position, let the system calibrate itself, and then tweak to your tastes. It'll be nice to have a good starting point with the eq, especially with the sub. I never felt like I was that great at getting it right, starting from scratch.

I completely agree about the simplicity of setting up using HDMI. It's great! It used to be a jumbled mess of cables in the back, with the different kinds of audio and video inputs and outputs of every device. My wife remembers the past setup days and had braced herself for a lot of profanity, but it turned out to be fairly family friendly. I'm saving up the swearing for when I have to go under the house...

Also HDMI routed through the receiver reduces the number of input changes and remotes you need to manage when you change from one source to another. That has gotten a lot simpler.
 
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When I sold my 8ft long sub with (4) 18" woofers this year, the guy called me up and said he didn't have 1/2 the bass he heard at my demo. I said you must have used the Audyssey calibration in the receiver, he replied yes.

 
When I sold my 8ft long sub with (4) 18" woofers this year, the guy called me up and said he didn't have 1/2 the bass he heard at my demo. I said you must have used the Audyssey calibration in the receiver, he replied yes.


4x18". That is some out there kind of stuff. How much amplifier driving it?
 
4x18". That is some out there kind of stuff. How much amplifier driving it?

6K watts/ 3K per pair of woofers @2 ohm per channel. It was tuned for 16hz and with 4 woofers, I never got them to move over 3/4" of travel. Did produce a cracked drywall seam .

There is no replacement for displacement. A 12" subwoofer with 300 watts is very limited on the frequency extension and SPL output, just the laws of physics.
 
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6K watts/ 3K per pair of woofers @2 ohm per channel. It was tuned for 16hz and with 4 woofers, I never got them to move over 3/4" of travel. Did produce a cracked drywall seam .

There is no replacement for displacement. A 12" subwoofer with 300 watts is very limited on the frequency extension and SPL output, just the laws of physics.

My guess is that everything that isn't bolted down would be rattling including the windows. That is a pretty extreme bottom end!
 
My guess is that everything that isn't bolted down would be rattling including the windows. That is a pretty extreme bottom end!

Not really, the 24" subwoofer pictured above can travel close to 5" and has the same output as (8) of the 18" drivers(I did hear this comparison). It has a 65 pound magnet. You can check it out at www.stereointegrity.com. The cabinet above that the guy is standing next to will produce output down to 3hz measured with a calibrated mic that will read down to DC
A guy in the UK has 4 of them in his HT room.
 
Not really, the 24" subwoofer pictured above can travel close to 5" and has the same output as (8) of the 18" drivers(I did hear this comparison). It has a 65 pound magnet. You can check it out at www.stereointegrity.com. The cabinet above that the guy is standing next to will produce output down to 3hz measured with a calibrated mic that will read down to DC
A guy in the UK has 4 of them in his HT room.

I would have to ask why in the heck anyone would want that. 3hz is not audible- heck it is questionable at 16 hz- probably feel it more than hear it.
 
thigpen rotary w/ a horn basement?

The Thigpen rotary sub has no real usable output above 30hz, and costs 13K with no enclosure ( needs it's own enclosure the size of a room) , and it only produces 110db max. So you have to go out and buy subwoofers to cover the range of 30-100hz or so, adding more costs with additional crossovers, amp, boxes.

Deep Sea Sound who makes the complete 24" sub, sells for 5K or so and covers from 3hz-200hz, amp and DSP processing included.
 
I would have to ask why in the heck anyone would want that. 3hz is not audible- heck it is questionable at 16 hz- probably feel it more than hear it.

The Thigpen rotary sub has no real usable output above 30hz, and costs 13K with no enclosure ( needs it's own enclosure the size of a room) , and it only produces 110db max. So you have to go out and buy subwoofers to cover the range of 30-100hz or so, adding more costs with additional crossovers, amp, boxes.

Deep Sea Sound who makes the complete 24" sub, sells for 5K or so and covers from 3hz-200hz, amp and DSP processing included.

Both of these have the same answer: because one can. I don't think anyone's seriously arguing for cost effectiveness at this scale.

Another reason: you don't like your fillings anymore, and would like to shake them out of your mouth.
 
I have a video of the 24" driver at full stroke.

I was just looking for some.

I found it funny that the website says $5 flat shipping within the continental USA for those 24" subs. You guys in the US have amazing shipping rates compared to Canada.

I priced out how much it would cost to ship that sub from my home to my office, which is 12KM or rounded up to 7.5 miles and it was $190 CDN dollars. To ship it from my home in Toronto to Vancouver would be $750.00 and that is not one end of the country to the other! If you want to ship it from one end of the country to the other, so Newfoundland to Vancouver its $250.00, that's because we are rich in Toronto. Just to prove the point I changed the shipping direction from Toronto to Newfoundland and it was $850.00 lol
 
I would have to ask why in the heck anyone would want that. 3hz is not audible- heck it is questionable at 16 hz- probably feel it more than hear it.

Exactly, once you experience visceral bass, you only then get to experience what it's like in real life to hear/feel the subsonic shaking of your body. Most people can hear down to 16hz which is a popular bottom note in pipe organs (yeah I know that there are more prominent overtones at 32 and 64hz to make up the sound you hear). Movie tracks contain lots of subsonic information. Trains,bombs, helicopters (they have large output at 7-8hz), as you have likely felt in a low fly over. If your small subwoofer rolls off its output below 20hz (like 90% of them do to protect the driver ), then you will miss the subsonic information. The sole purpose of the HT is to recreate the actual event, and why you pay lots of money to go see a huge screen that fills your peripheral vision, with large multiple speakers to the effect you could convince a blind man that the actual sounds are taking place in the room.
The old saying "Contentment is destroyed by comparison " applies here. Once you experience an IMAX THEATRE and then go home and watch it on your 32" tv and your Wal Mart stereo, your previous contentment is gone. Same with living somewhere that you never saw a rocket in your life that had a bigger motor than a C launch, then someone comes to town and lets you experience life with a P motor . From then on, your reference level is changed.
 
I don't know about those subs.....I like to breathe normally and see clearly.....

But I get it.....like trying to explain to someone what it's like at an NHRA Top Fuel drag race......unless you stand there next to the track and feel those babies take off....you'll never have the frame of reference to understand.
 
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