What a Cluster!

3stoogesrocketry said:

Here's a great shot of a Ultimate Max taking off on 6 kosdon 38mm J1500's. If you look about 8 feet under the rocket , you will see the 7th motor that slid out due to the acceleration forces .

Eric

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Too cool! Was this at BALLS 2002 by chance? I recall seeing a setup like this and it was amazing!

pyrobob said:

Too cool! Was this at BALLS 2002 by chance? I recall seeing a setup like this and it was amazing!

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Yes it was at Balls 2002 . Around a 6000 ns "M9000".

3stoogesrocketry said:

Yes it was at Balls 2002 . Around a 6000 ns "M9000".

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WOW! :headbang:

That is just rude... 6 J-1500's.... I would have loved to hear it!!!

3stoogesrocketry said:

Yes it was at Balls 2002 . Around a 6000 ns "M9000".

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Out of the thousands of flights I've seen since then, I can actually remember this. It was totally awesome. Safe to say that wild clusters hold a special place in my mind . I might even have a picture on a dinosaur PC collecting dust.

https://blastzone.org/balls2002.asp

Not Kosdon motors.

Yep I remember drooling at this project back in the day.

My "drool cluster project" was the Gates Brothers' Porthos II. Amazing looking rocket, especially from the aft!
-Ken

Maybe I should refigure my outer 75mm Hydra tubes to be used for motors and not just for "show" only??? Currently only the central tube is motor available. Hmmm.



(That's me in the back with my good friend Mark Joseph of Champaign. This pic was taken after my MWP 2015 flight.)

new2hpr said:

My "drool cluster project" was the Gates Brothers' Porthos II. Amazing looking rocket, especially from the aft!
-Ken

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Oh yeah! They were in my regular queue as well.

EDIT: didn't read!

This was actually the maiden flight at Thunderstruck 4, I believe in 2012. Always flew it on the Aerotech L2200. A great motor and the biggest thing I can put in it.
Wonder what a 3 or 4 K700's would add to the flight? Or 6 of them?!?!?!?

What a cluster you started Dave! Settle down now!

I guess we'll have to try something differnent :dark:

J

In the late 1990's Ken Finwall of California HIgh Power Rocketry had what I think was a LOC kit called Top Gun. At the time, Clustering was still king over large single L's, M's and greater. And in Southern California... Ken Finwall and Hyam Sosnow were the kings of clustering... including the King Viper. (I forgot Kirk Whiting and his Public Enemy Fatboys...)


Given the amount of money invested now days in rockets that are $600 to $1200 for just the airframe, it's understandable most people just go for a single high impulse motor.

However most of what was launched with 2 to 8 motors 'back in the good ole days' was simply LOC style cardboard (or PML style Phenolic). Most people used 'starters' that used... well... you know... that regulated stuff...

It was fun. And was not always 'perfect'.

I still have the motor mount for my late Thoy Nighthawk. 7x29. It deserves an airframe some day.

gdjsky01 said:

I still have the motor mount for my late Thoy Nighthawk. 7x29. It deserves an airframe some day.

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I second this!

loved mine.

Third! The THOY Nighthawk was my first high-power 4 inch rocket and my first composite cluster. See very, very old pictures from that flight below...circa 2000 or so. G38FJ + (2) F23FJs!

Forward closure blow by on a G64W eventually killed it but now I have an Ultimate.

3stoogesrocketry said:

Here's a great shot of a Ultimate Max taking off on 6 kosdon 38mm J1500's. If you look about 8 feet under the rocket , you will see the 7th motor that slid out due to the acceleration forces .

Eric

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Those motors were seriously over rated. They actually were a J875 or so. Basically, a little bit better than the half the labeled average thrust. That is one of the reasons motor testing is a good idea. I now return this thread to its clustery goodness.

And so begins the Ultimate!



Opinion: build it with the six Ultimate fins or do a THOY Falcon clone?

patelldp said:

Opinion: build it with the six Ultimate fins or do a THOY Falcon clone?

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Ultimate!
This has kinda been a LOC thread for the most part.
-Ken

marcusSRG said:

Third! The THOY Nighthawk was my first high-power 4 inch rocket and my first composite cluster. See very, very old pictures from that flight below...circa 2000 or so. G38FJ + (2) F23FJs!

Forward closure blow by on a G64W eventually killed it but now I have an Ultimate.

View attachment 307456View attachment 307457

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sweeeeet!

I launched mine out in 3 oaks with 3-G125's and 4- G25's once. all 3- G125's and a pair of the G25's lit on the pad. it actually went pretty darn verticle. about 100' up a 3rd G25 decided to light. apogee comes, rocket arcs over, and for some reason the last G25 decided to come to life-that sucker steaked( well, not streak like a J350, but it was cool!) off behind the flightline at about 1200'. once burnout the chute deployed. ken zuner was RSO and came up to me afterwards and said,"how come you didn't say that was airstart!!"
"I didn't know it was going to be!"
sure wish I could remember the conversation because I was wondering why that last motor decided to light when the rocket arced over and ken explained some things that I just don't remember, but I do remember it was an "aha" moment.

Here's what the tail end of my Ultimate will look like, compliments of UpscalCNC's router:



It retains all of the motors by slipping over the motors and holding onto the spiral thrust rings. The plate is held by three 6-32 bolts with washers. The three additional holes are for airstart wire routing.

patelldp said:

Here's what the tail end of my Ultimate will look like, compliments of UpscalCNC's router:

View attachment 307671

It retains all of the motors by slipping over the motors and holding onto the spiral thrust rings. The plate is held by three 6-32 bolts with washers. The three additional holes are for airstart wire routing.

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Very slick!

Neat!

:lol:

LOC said:

View attachment 307752:lol:

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Only if you can't load all the motor casings and have them fit with closures! Otherwise, no such thing.
-Ken

patelldp said:

Here's what the tail end of my Ultimate will look like, compliments of UpscalCNC's router:

View attachment 307671

It retains all of the motors by slipping over the motors and holding onto the spiral thrust rings. The plate is held by three 6-32 bolts with washers. The three additional holes are for airstart wire routing.

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NICE! That should quiet those concerned about melting the plastic in the rear. Looking forward to seeing what you do with that Ultimate, Dan!

LOC said:

View attachment 307752:lol:

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Want!

patelldp said:

Here's what the tail end of my Ultimate will look like, compliments of UpscalCNC's router:

View attachment 307671
.

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5/8 Scale Patriot, 98mm Central, 8 - 38mm ouboards, (2 are for timer modules I made)
Original CRs custom cut years ago by PML, not enough holes for me, so off to my drill press and hole saw.

All those motors and retainers, just barely fit, I had to turn down the 38 retainer caps to fit,

ALL FG, 4-finned, Ultimate Endeavor, 54mm central, 4 - 38mm outboards, 2- 29mm for timer modules.
Original CRs custom cut years ago by PML, only 4 outbaords, not enough holes for me, so off to my drill press and hole saw.


All those motors and retainers, just barely fit, I had to turn down the 38 retainer caps to fit,

Ya, unfortunatly I don't think that'll work with all that. A bit too crowded unless you make a custome retention plate.... wait.... hmmm

Something's brewing!!!!

So what are all you using as launch pad 'starters'?
Anyone using that cord that is not supposed to be used?

How about air starts? What starters? I have a PET 2+ but have yet to use it.

Back in the Clustering we THE thing. M's and N's were rare.

Remember the LOC Top Gun?

gdjsky01 said:

1.So what are all you using as launch pad 'starters'?

2.Anyone using that cord that is not supposed to be used?
How about air starts? What starters? I have a PET 2+ but have yet to use it.

3. Back in the Clustering we THE thing. [????]
M's and N's were rare.

Remember the LOC Top Gun?

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I have an old PML Ultimate Endeavor - 54 central- [3] 38mm outside.

1. A.Thermite
B. Wildman Big'ns/Little'uns with 8ft. leads stretched out on ground, to allow for traveling up rail [xtra ignition time]
C. e-match with BP pellets [harvested from Estes 'C' motors] pressed in top grain for AT & research motors. CTI motor[come with pellet & match.]
Above is the progression I've used over the years.....

Airstarts:
2. A. My favorite old school way......Thermalite cord inside Teflon tubing,except for top 2 inches,coiled and held there by being wedged between grain wall & BP pellet. Lit by central motor at lift off. Always most interesting flights!!
B. Pet timer set default [motor burn out] E-match's & BP pellet pressed in top grains.
C. RRC3-Telemega with delay- E-match- Boron [BKNO3] pellet or powder in glove tip.

3. Guessing you meant K's or L's, still pretty much what most 'big' clusters are. I'v only seen M's & N's clustered on Large scale size rockets