Hyperion--TRA Level 3 Build

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Man that was close to someone's house. I can't say I'd be thrilled if I looked in my yard and found a monstrous rocket there. Glad you got it back, and will only need new recovery equipment...expensive, but better than roof damage.
 
Odd thing is that the camera was in one of Landru's 808 camera mounts, so it is possible that the lens slipped or something.
 
[video=youtube;eGvS7NrdA1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGvS7NrdA1o[/video]A few notes:
  1. The first event occurs at 0:28
My tentative observations:
  • The audio is not very good, but I cannot hear the various charges going off distinctly, although all four charges appear to have fired at some point. It could be that they all went off at once but it's just too hard to tell
FWIW, at 0:29 there’s a glimpse in the top left corner of the nose cone. If you pause it, you can clearly see the shoulder and harness. So whatever caused the nose to eject (and I’m assuming the main laundry to deploy) happened at or immediately after the first event. I agree the audio isn't very good, but the apogee charge sounded like a pretty good whallop.
 
Hmmm, A victim of a low camera angle. Always a good idea to have the camera angled out at 15 degrees or so for a better field of view. Seems to be a lesson here about expediently proceeding through the certification cycle. Nothing wrong with that per se but some time/years flying before an L3 attempt might allow the acquisition of skills to avoid the main at apogee, the low camera angle and the usage of the wrong battery in the tracker.

Bottom line though is the rocket is recovered and with some work could be re-prepped for another attempt. I doubt the same issues will crop up next time except fix that camera angle! :wink: Kurt

I mount my cameras in a 3d printed shroud from Additive Aerospace that is parallel to the rocket. However, I use a 120 degree lens, so I have a good view of the flight. But yes, a good view helps with diagnostics.
 
Looking at the video- it's clear by 44 seconds in that the main laundry is out, because the downward view is too smooth to be a drogue only deploy. Unless the drogue was way oversized.
 
I mount my cameras in a 3d printed shroud from Additive Aerospace that is parallel to the rocket. However, I use a 120 degree lens, so I have a good view of the flight. But yes, a good view helps with diagnostics.

This camera was mounted in one of those mounts as well. I am not sure why the alignment was off, unless the lens was misaligned in the camera case. Is is an 808, but does not appear to be an 808#16.
 
FWIW, at 0:29 there’s a glimpse in the top left corner of the nose cone. If you pause it, you can clearly see the shoulder and harness. So whatever caused the nose to eject (and I’m assuming the main laundry to deploy) happened at or immediately after the first event. I agree the audio isn't very good, but the apogee charge sounded like a pretty good whallop.

I had missed that, but yes it is absolutely clear that the initial charge popped the nosecone free
nosecone029.png

nose cone damage...I still think this is due to a likely arboreal recovery.
IMG_5131.jpg

One thing I did notice was that the vent holes to the av-bay were partially misaligned. It is not clear whether that was caused by some slippage after the fact, as the mounting brackets inside the av-bay seem to have come loose. This rocket hasn't had much TLC post-recovery.

IMG_5139.jpgIMG_5146.jpg

Here are the remnants of the payload-bay shear pins. Matt, for future reference, I highly recommend using larger shear pins (#4) for the payload section. You need a bigger charge to blow the payload but it discourages premature separation.

IMG_5136.jpg
 
I had missed that, but yes it is absolutely clear that the initial charge popped the nosecone free
View attachment 320183

nose cone damage...I still think this is due to a likely arboreal recovery.
View attachment 320184

One thing I did notice was that the vent holes to the av-bay were partially misaligned. It is not clear whether that was caused by some slippage after the fact, as the mounting brackets inside the av-bay seem to have come loose. This rocket hasn't had much TLC post-recovery.

View attachment 320185View attachment 320186

Here are the remnants of the payload-bay shear pins. Matt, for future reference, I highly recommend using larger shear pins (#4) for the payload section. You need a bigger charge to blow the payload but it discourages premature separation.

View attachment 320187

The nosecone was definitely damaged due to side impact of something.Tree is a possibility, so is ground impact after getting it out of the tree or possibly impact of the instrument used to get it out.

Matt, those all-threads are REALLY rusted. It almost feels like it was left outside after recovery. Let me know what sizes you need and I can cut you some zinc plated ones cheaper that the non-coated home improvement store variety and that will eliminate the rusting.

Also, you have to clue us in to the meaning of the duck and safety pin...

Definitely use #4 pins for the nosecone next time. 4-5 on a rocket that size.
 
Ok, I have to ask...

Is that a safety pin holding something together on the sled? A toy mouse?

For a high G flight like yours, I would have really done a whole lot more to secure the wiring (unless those were all cut loose during analysis). I would expect that may be why you lost track - something became momentarily disconnected.
 
4:33 there's a pretty clear pop that sounds like a main charge.


Pretty cool to get it back.
 
I concur with Dave, that pop at 4:33 sounds like the main charge. Shear pin failure seems to be the culprit at this point.

Without seeing the electronics, hard to tell... I heard one pop ;). If the other altimeter went off up top, who knows. can't really tell how many or which charges went off at apogee.

a charge goes off and smoke fills the screen at 28s, at 29 the nose cone is visible. I'm guessing a main charge went off.
 
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Not sure what the white thing under the nose is, but you can see it there.
 
Alrighty. Time for a few comments:

1. Shear pins: I used 3x #4 shear pins in the ground test and in the flight. As determined before, the ground test was proved to be inadequate to properly test charge sizes, due to the friction incurred from the payload section pressing on the coupler.

2. All thread: The all thread used was the stock all thread from the LOC avionics bay kit. I will be upgrading these to stainless steel.

3. Camera: The camera is the cheaper model from Bayou Rat Rocketry. It's mounted in a 3d printed shroud that I got from somewhere on here (couldn't place the source). I'll probably end up designing a new one that gives me a bit more of an angle off of the body tube.

4. Wiring: Al, you raise a fair point, but I don't think that was the problem on this flight. I will agree, I should have used a few more zip ties to hold my wires down to the board. I had them freely floating during the flight. My initial setup that I did in the hotel room had a lot of the wires zip tied together and down, but I had to take apart my avionics bay at the field due to a switch breaking. In hindsight, I needed to redo my wire security at the field. Although this is something I need to fix, I don't believe it led to the issues in the flight. Electronics powering off and back on again should result in no deployment; however, I had the opposite problem.

5. Av bay holes: This one surprised me. I had 3 x 1/4" screws running into plywood blocks inside the avionics bay. I'm rather surprised about the slipping though. I'll have to look at the blocks inside and see if the screws managed to cock themselves in the hole.

6. Charge times and amounts: I'll see if I can pull data off of the altimeters and cross check it with the video to see what times the charges fired, to determine what happened. I'll also double check my wiring to make sure that the main was wired to the correct charge (99.99999999% sure that I wired it correctly).

7. The mouse: Yes, that's a toy mouse in there. It's a long story. The jist of it: one of my friends is on another FRC robotics team named the Hitchikers. I won that little mouse for something at a competition from them (don't remember what), and my friend said it would be cool if it flew on a rocket. So Benji (yes, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference) hitched a ride inside the avionics bay. He is zip tied to the board. The safety pin is part of how he was made.


A few individual replies:

ksaves2: Yes, I see where you are coming from. I definitely did the more expedient route through the certification process. However, you will be happy to know that I'll be stepping back from re-attempting my L3 for probably a year (mostly due to time constraints and the fact that I'm not taking this rocket to UAH). Instead, I'll be taking one of my smaller rockets (my 3" darkstar) and really working on my recovery and tracking techniques.

@wfcook: With regards to the camera slipping, I don't think so. I've flown these mounts several times and I've never had that problem. My only problem has been due to placement of the camera on the rocket, causing too much of the rocket to be in the frame. I'll be designing a new holder that eliminates this problem.

@rharshberger: I'm starting to develop that theory. My current theory is the ground testing grossly underestimated the effect of the charges, and that combined with what probably was not enough shear pin as well as the chute potentially sledgehammering into the base of the nose cone resulted in my main popping at apogee.

@David McCann, that small object under the nose cone is the tube that the tracker is inside. Which reminds me... the tracker is probably gone. Crap. Oh well, at least it was only $60 or so.


I'd like to give a major thank you to Mr Cook for recovering this for me.
 
Well, the theory I came up with is busted. Bill took apart my avionics bay, and figured out that the main and drogue on the RRC3 were reversed.

The ONE thing I did not redo on my checklist was the problem.


Oh well. Learning lesson. New thing on checklist: If ANYTHING on the checklist has to be redone, the entire checklist gets redone.

-insert lots of angry yelling-


On the bright side, the only damage is a bit of water damage to the tubes, a stuck avionics bay, and the dent in the nose cone coupler. All of which are easily fixable or replaceable.
 
well, the most painful lessons stick with us the longest.

If you'll excuse me, it's time to go burn the remnants of my villain...
 
On another note, I happened to notice the recommended videos from your screenshots of the youtube video... seems like someone has been catching up on their Moana showtunes. ;)
 
Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.

- Steve Jobs
 
Glad to hear that everything worked out in the end Matt; you recovered the rocket in pretty good shape and also determined the cause of the apogee deployment. I'm looking forward to seeing a successful L3 attempt with Hyperion in the future.
 
6. I'll also double check my wiring to make sure that the main was wired to the correct charge (99.99999999% sure that I wired it correctly).

350.png


Nice job solving the mystery. Now you can take steps to eliminate that error for your next attempt.

I'm glad you're getting your rocket back!
 
Well, the theory I came up with is busted. Bill took apart my avionics bay, and figured out that the main and drogue on the RRC3 were reversed.

The ONE thing I did not redo on my checklist was the problem.


Oh well. Learning lesson. New thing on checklist: If ANYTHING on the checklist has to be redone, the entire checklist gets redone.

-insert lots of angry yelling-


On the bright side, the only damage is a bit of water damage to the tubes, a stuck avionics bay, and the dent in the nose cone coupler. All of which are easily fixable or replaceable.

Good gosh, So close to success but for this mismatch. Am so sorry that happened. If it hadn't, might be you'd just be cursing the tracker and had been
able to recover within the waiver and had acquired the certification. Oh well, doubt that will "EVER" happen with you again! Good luck next shot. Kurt
 
Gee, Matt. At least now you have your answer. Could have happened to anyone, but the simplicity of it is sure to induce frustration. But, I bet you're feeling a whole lot better today than you were two weeks ago.
 
Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.

- Steve Jobs

Also, "I would have written a shorter letter, but I didn't have the time." -Blaise Pascal
 
so back to the GPS unit , was it missing ? if so any chance NC damage puked it out at apogee wild events thus destroyed , signal lost ?

just wondering , thinking

glad you got back rocket
 
Recovery notes:

Yesterday I went to the farm to get Matt's rocket. The approach to the farm is a gravel drive lined with signs that say 'keep out', 'trespassers will be prosecuted', etc. The rocket was leaning up against some farm equipment and I am not sure whether it was placed there in anticipation of my arrival or whether it has been there for some time. As I began to examine the rocket I became aware that I was being approached by a very large creature that I am pretty sure was a warg but which the farmer's wife later claimed was was a dog. It approached, sniffed my leg, and tried to pee on it (I dodged, thankfully). After a couple of tense minutes the farmer's wife came out and said, "down boy," at which point the 'dog' decided I was his best friend. The farmer's wife then said, "get off him," and I was able to get up, dust myself off, ask a few questions, give her the small reward, and load the rocket into the truck. The farmer's wife did not appear to know much about where the rocket had been found and I was pretty busy with the 'dog', so I didn't get much info from her.

The rocket is in reasonable shape but not completely unscathed. The most obvious thing is that all of the laundry is missing. The harnesses have been cut and I am theorizing that it came down very close to a tree line and the parachute had to be cut free. There is damage to the shoulder of the nose cone which is consistent with being pulled over the branch of a tree and catching in a bough.

I was able to download the video from the 808 camera, which you can see below:

[video=youtube;eGvS7NrdA1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGvS7NrdA1o[/video]

A few notes:
  1. Launch occurs at 0:07
  2. The first event occurs at 0:28
  3. The rocket touches down in grass, very close to the trees, at 4:51
  4. At 2:11 the intersection of Ell Downes and Goldsboro Rd is clearly visible
  5. At 2:29 you can pretty clearly see the house between Beaver Damn Farm Ln and Mason Branch
  6. At 2:54 you can see Diggins Rd and Goldsboro Rd. The rocket seems to come straight down toward this location for some time.
  7. At 4:38 you can clearly see the brownish-looking house with a roof line that matches 24592 Goldsboro Rd.
  8. At 4:44 the rocket is quite low and right over the farmer's house.
  9. You then see a lot of trees from the side and the the rocket pitches back down and lands in the grass

My tentative observations:
  • The audio is not very good, but I cannot hear the various charges going off distinctly, although all four charges appear to have fired at some point. It could be that they all went off at once but it's just too hard to tell
  • I think it likely that the laundry got caught up in the trees
  • I cannot get the av-bay out of the payload section (at least not easily) and the all-thread is a bit rusted, leading me to speculate that the rocket has seen some rain.
  • I was able to unscrew the av-bay from the wrong end (actually it twisted off the wing-nuts that were inside the payload section). Everything in there appears intact and I see no signs of corrosion.
  • The motor casing appears to be in good shape, although I have not removed it as I can't think of a better place to keep it safe than right where it is. Have fun cleaning that one, Matt.
  • As I reported, the nose cone suffered some damage.

What happened to the video?
 
so back to the GPS unit , was it missing ? if so any chance NC damage puked it out at apogee wild events thus destroyed , signal lost ?

just wondering , thinking

glad you got back rocket

Good question! If it was ejected or dislodged at the apogee deployment that could be another reason for the perceived failure. Especially if the battery disconnected in the process. A free-falling intact EggFinder from 7k' might get a few positions
out before it hits. No posits on the up side can be explained by the G forces, speed and Doppler effect on the way up. Ordinarily on the way down positions start to come in and really stabilize out with main deployment.
With the main at apogee and the lost tracker might mean the tracker was disconnected from the battery or the battery was dead with the anomalous event. Kurt
 
so back to the GPS unit , was it missing ? if so any chance NC damage puked it out at apogee wild events thus destroyed , signal lost ?

just wondering , thinking

glad you got back rocket


Thinking back, when I grabbed my receiver after I lost track of the rocket, it had already been 60+ seconds since the last mark. Furthermore, the last known point was on the launch pad. This means that I lost the signal before launch even occurred.

I'm also sad to say that my transmitter is AWOL. Keep an eye on the yard sale, I'll be selling the rest of my Egg____ stuff soon to get an RF tracking device.
 
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