APRO Lander II Build Thread

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TangoJuliet said:
Sweet! :headbang: I really need to get out of my kit building phase and start more scratch builds.

I also need to make a painting stand. Not sure if I like the horizontal stand like yours or if I'd prefer something closer to vertical. Any ideas?
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Horizontal is better because all of your paint sweeps are at the same height and you get better even coverage. Vertical tends to allow more paint in the area that is directly in front of you. Especially on longer rockets.
 
Gary Byrum said:
Horizontal is better because all of your paint sweeps are at the same height and you get better even coverage. Vertical tends to allow more paint in the area that is directly in front of you. Especially on longer rockets.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed. However, I've got it covered either way:
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1491228517.452671.jpg

The top of the stand is an "X" fitting, so it'll hold things in either direction. For items of reasonable size, I usually hold the rocket in the stick with my hand (horizontally), and then stick it in my stand to dry. So it's often really more of a drying stand than a painting stand. The APRO was just on the edge of being able to be hand-held comfortably.

The dowel that I typically use as my painting wand is 3/4", which fits all the way through the X fitting, as shown in the picture, which is convenient. The Quinstar was mounted on a piece of 3/4" PVC, which fits tightly into the top of the fitting (a bit too tight actually, I should sand it down so it slips in more easily). The point is that you can only have one dowel going through the fitting at a time, so the above arrangement worked well for me yesterday.

All that said, my paint stand isn't anything special, but it has done the job for me so far. If I needed to do larger, heavier rockets, or more rockets at once, I'd probably need to upgrade (or add a second one). And that will be fine, because I love building PVC sculptures. :)
 
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I use dowels of various diameter also as painting sticks, and similarly, I usually hold the stick with one hand and spray with the other, but on longer models that can become challenging (QCC Explorer, STM-012, etc.), so I've cobbled a couple of cinder blocks to where I can wedge the dowel down into one and pinch it with the other, holding it at a 30-40* angle. That works out ok, but I'm always fearful of it falling over into the grass/dirt. Hasn't happened yet, but eventually Mr. Murphy will find out where I live.
 
neil_w said:
All that said, my paint stand isn't anything special, but it has done the job for me so far. If I needed to do larger, heavier rockets, or more rockets at once, I'd probably need to upgrade (or add a second one). And that will be fine, because I love building PVC sculptures. :)
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I had fun building this one too. There's an additional cross bar/pipe that can fit between the legs (leaning on the new TV) should I ever need it. Funny thing is, most of my longer models have ejection baffles in them making the entire stand unusable. I usually end up with 1 leg and 1 of the pipes doing a balancing act with a suspended rocket off to one side. Or I have to break out my 1/4" steel rod for the same purpose. One way or another, I'll have my horizontal position going on.

100_1283.jpg

Here's what I use when I'm airbrushing. That metal rod is quite handy for this box. It serves more as a wind block than anything else since all of my painting has to be outdoors.

100_1089.jpg
 
This pretty much seals the deal. I'm going to make a pvc workbench/paint rig that will slip onto my balcony railing.
 
neil_w said:
Long before I actually started building this thing, I figured I could try to fabricate the transitions. If I couldn't come up with some decent ones, then no point in continuing. And really, it's the big one that is the most critical.

The template comes out to a bit under 9x14":
View attachment 304447

Finding something officially labeled "card stock" at that size was fruitless, at least in any store I could find locally. Finally, following Gary's advice, I nabbed a pack of 14x22" poster board from Walmart. I think it was this, although I can't seem to find my pack of it right now: https://www.walmart.com/ip/UCreate-Poster-Board-14-x-22-8pk/17203958. Of course there is no weight listed on the package (or online), so I just tried to gauge it by feel, and ensure that it was more than 65 lb. I really have no idea of its actual weight. It also has one shiny side, which I figure should go on the outside, but who knows.

For my first attempt, I cut the join tab as a separate piece and glued it to the inside. Failure. The stiffness of the two layers of poster board meant that the seam area wouldn't bend well. That one was so horrible I tossed it without taking a picture. But I learned.

So for the next one I just went with the standard overlapping tab. I followed Gary's strategy of rubber-banding the paper into a tight cone to put some curve in it before gluing:
View attachment 304450

Then I had to figure out how to actually hold the thing in position while the glue was setting. I took two pieces of wood strip, rounded them off so there would be no sharp edges to dig in and mark the paper, and fashioned a crazy clamp setup:
View attachment 304449

There is probably a simpler way to do it, but this arrangement worked pretty well, once I went through the juggling act of getting the wet-glued transition into the clamp. I Bondo'ed the seam (first time using Bondo), which came out "OK"; the seam will be visible on the finished model, but I'll live with that. After getting this one done, the other two transitions were straightforward.

This photo gives some perspective on the size of this transition:
View attachment 304448

This was all done months ago, then my whole workbench got packed up and a major home remodeling project got underway, and I focused my efforts on finishing up Biohazard. But I had passed my major first test, and knew that this build could go forward... eventually.

Oh, one more detail: no centering rings have been installed in these transitions. This build will take a different approach. Because my BT80 extends all the way through the transition, I didn't need a 55/80 ring in the front of it (it'll just slip right over the BT80), and as for the back... well that will wait for the next update.
Click to expand...

Michael's sells "Bristol" board which is pretty similar
 
Most of your decals look like a snap, but I'm curious about those trapezoidal shapes on the big shroud. How are you going to pull that off?
 
Gary Byrum said:
Most of your decals look like a snap, but I'm curious about those trapezoidal shapes on the big shroud. How are you going to pull that off?
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I think the correct question is "how am I going to put that on?"

For design, I'll work within the shroud template outline. I expect to it be a bit of a pain, and require some measurement and some thinking, but doable. For application, I'm not sure if I'll do it as one big wrap, or maybe in four separate segments. I plan to purchase the vinyl from Stickershock23.

Did you have a more specific question in mind?
 
neil_w said:
I think the correct question is "how am I going to put that on?"

For design, I'll work within the shroud template outline. I expect to it be a bit of a pain, and require some measurement and some thinking, but doable. For application, I'm not sure if I'll do it as one big wrap, or maybe in four separate segments. I plan to purchase the vinyl from Stickershock23.

Did you have a more specific question in mind?
Click to expand...

If you can get the trapezoids in the shape you need, and Mark's going to cut them, question answered. Personally, I'd sweat trying to work a wrap on that shroud. I'd be measuring and making tic marks everywhere I was going to stick something. I...me, myself, moi, would likely screw up a wrap. The idea of using individual pieces, would have extras on hand in case I botched something there too. And that would be easier than replacing a wrap.
 
Gary, I'll get back to that window drawing although I'm not quite sure how you're envisioning it should be used? solid in the "panes", or just outlined? I do think I'm inclined towards simpler, but I'll give that a whirl in the OR sim as soon as I understand how it's supposed to go. Other decal design continues. I want to have this one, the upscale Quinstar, and the Starship Avalon all done at one, so it's a little extra work before I can get to that point.

In the meantime, I took a look at the rocket and saw that I had really run out of paint before the final coat was finished, and the surface was not nearly smooth. So I gave the entire thing a quick wet-sanding to prepare the surface for one additional final heavy coat of gloss white. I probably could have sanded it further, but it's definitely a lot smoother than it was before, and I think it'll be fine.
 
neil_w said:
Gary, I'll get back to that window drawing although I'm not quite sure how you're envisioning it should be used?
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If I had given you the right file, it might have been a little easier to understand. Sorry about that. It's basically a blank window with just the black frame. Could easily be cut from vinyl or printed.

View attachment Lander Window.pdf
 
I need to get my vinyl order placed one of these days.

The hardest piece of artwork to generate is the windows wrap (I don't even know if they're really windows, but let's just call them that for now). I can choose later whether I want to apply the whole thing as a single wrap (probably too difficult), or cut it up into some as-yet-undetermined number of pieces, but I wanted to get the vinyl cut as one single wrap so I have the options.

I puzzled for a while over how to generated the graphics. Finally I decided on some crazy hack Javascript code to generate SVG on a web page, which I'd then screenshot and supply to Mark.

Here's what it looks like, rendered at 100 dpi (I'll eventually provide Mark with a 300 dpi version). The red outline is the template for the large shroud and is not part of the decal graphics. The first and last windows are beveled to to work around the launch lug; I might tweak those bevels a bit more but it's probably OK as-is.
windows.jpg

I still have a bit more to do graphics-wise, but it should be easy (compared to this one!)
 
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neil_w said:
The hardest piece of artwork to generate is the windows wrap (I don't even know if they're really windows, but let's just call them that for now). I can choose later whether I want to apply the whole thing as a single wrap (probably too difficult), or cut it up into some as-yet-undetermined number of pieces, but I wanted to get the vinyl cut as one single wrap so I have the options.
Click to expand...

I see now where my error was. I gave you a 6 window drawing which would have worked well with 3 fins...uh....you have 4. My bad. NOW, why does it have to be a wrap? You think that'll be easier to apply? NOT! Even a good wet app on that would be difficult for someone with more experience than the two of us put together. A safer bet would be to apply these one at a time. 1st, make a layover shroud that only extends as far dawn as where the top of the window would start. Secure the shroud. Your shroud could have 8 tic marks on it where each window would be placed. The reason I say this is because, I have professional sign making experience, and even I would consider a wrap like this an accident waiting to happen. More power to ya if you get it right though. Personally, I'd never chance it.
 
Most likely I would not do this all as one wrap, but laying it out like this gives me three advantages:
1) I can confirm absolutely that everything is appropriately sized and fits together well
2) I printed a copy on paper and can temporarily wrap it around to audition it to see how it fits and looks. I especially want to see if the bevels for the launch lug look OK.
3) If it's cut from one sheet like this, I can eventually apply it either as 1, 2, 4, or 8 separate pieces. I can decide later.

The code to generate this is pretty parametric, so I can tweak a lot of different aspects until it's "just right".
 
Gary Byrum said:
Prototype window stickers. Yeah Buddy! That's a good idea.
Click to expand...
Already has paid dividends; the wrap was a bit too small on the rocket, needs to be enlarged a bit. Perhaps the thickness of the shroud material itself is to blame. also the exact way I rendered the windows with the thick outlines. I'll enlarge it a little and try again. The bevels on the ends seems to do a decent job with the launch lug. I also think the window outlines looked a bit too thick; I'll tweak.

Oh, and it did confirm that there is no way in h-e-hockey sticks I'll be able to apply it as a single wrap, no matter how determined I might be. My guess is I'll cut it into 4 pieces, two windows each.
 
The lines on the windows look fine. I'm sure once you get all your decals in their places, your lander will resemble something NASA might fly to Proxima b. Mine on the other hand will be just a replacement vessel for the aging 2 dimensional fictitious character who wears a push broom on his head.
 
Today I cracked open a new can of 2x Gloss White and laid down what seemed to be a very good top coat of white on the rocket. Once it cures I'll be ready to mask and lay down the red. Progress!
 
I saw Gary's fly this weekend, very cool flight, and a really cool looking rocket.
 
What motor? (Gary, you're free to answer this as well :)) I've been thinking that something in the range E15 - E20 would be ideal for this.

I have considered the possibility of flying this on incomplete finish, if it keeps dragging out too much longer.
 
neil_w said:
What motor? (Gary, you're free to answer this as well :)) I've been thinking that something in the range E15 - E20 would be ideal for this.

I have considered the possibility of flying this on incomplete finish, if it keeps dragging out too much longer.
Click to expand...

D12 Neil. Playing it safe for the maiden launch. It's definitely going to require an E or an F motor to get any altitude with it. Prolly got 150-200 feet at best. I have videos of the weekend event that I haven't gotten around to yet. I have one for this flight. Still fighting off the sod field hangover. My poor lil azz is tired this Monday.
 

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