Estes Mercury Redstone Kit

Bought this skill level 3 kit the other day and had a blast assembling it.
Max altitude is only 200 ft. But it sounded like a cool little guy to fly.
I got it to our club launch day, and with a C6-3 (the only recommended motor) launched it...
It seemed very under powered. It's got a nice slow liftoff, but not much higher, it starts flying very sideways.
I'd say maybe 100-150 ft at best and it was an absolutely calm day. No issues with the fins or anything.
Has anyone else had the same issues or is it just me?

Mine gets a good couple hundred feet and I've been very comfortable flying it on the recommended C6-3. I wouldn't fly it in much wind for fear of weathervaning. Does yours have much friction between the launch lugs and launch rod?

[video=youtube;JRnLwsUklKE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnLwsUklKE[/video]

Not much at all. Nothing out of the ordinary at least. That's why I'm completely lost.

Have you thought about a composite motor AT D10-5? It is the same size as a C motor. I just bought the same kit and plan on using this:

https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...s/18mm_Motors_Single_Use/Aerotech_Motor_D10-5

Ccolvin968 said:

Bought this skill level 3 kit the other day and had a blast assembling it.
Max altitude is only 200 ft. But it sounded like a cool little guy to fly.
I got it to our club launch day, and with a C6-3 (the only recommended motor) launched it...
It seemed very under powered. It's got a nice slow liftoff, but not much higher, it starts flying very sideways.
I'd say maybe 100-150 ft at best and it was an absolutely calm day. No issues with the fins or anything.
Has anyone else had the same issues or is it just me?

Click to expand...

Mine is going to get a 24mm motor mount upgrade and a steady diet (I hope) of C11 motors. How close did yours come to the 3.7 ounce catalog weight ? By "flying very sideways" do you mean cruise missile - parallel to the ground ?

samb said:

Mine is going to get a 24mm motor mount upgrade and a steady diet (I hope) of C11 motors. How close did yours come to the 3.7 ounce catalog weight ? By "flying very sideways" do you mean cruise missile - parallel to the ground ?

Click to expand...

Pay NO attention to the catalog mass. it is the RAW parts mass without glue or any finishing. it's only real use is for mailing/freight weight.

First flight was cruise missile like. Second was much better.
I'll weigh it and get back to you later.

Micromeister said:

Pay NO attention to the catalog mass. it is the RAW parts mass without glue or any finishing. it's only real use is for mailing/freight weight.

Click to expand...

I hadn't heard that before. In that case it is a very useless number to me. I always used it as a gauge to see how heavy (or light) I was building.

Ccolvin968 said:

First flight was cruise missile like. Second was much better.
I'll weigh it and get back to you later.

Click to expand...

Perhaps an inopportune gust caught your first flight. Winds aloft can be tricky sometimes. Sounds like no harm done so more flight samples are needed !

I wonder how poorly that capsule would fare landing on asphalt? Not too well, I would think.

beautiful job on your Redstone!! awesome flight!

Flyfalcons said:

Mine gets a good couple hundred feet and I've been very comfortable flying it on the recommended C6-3. I wouldn't fly it in much wind for fear of weathervaning. Does yours have much friction between the launch lugs and launch rod?

[video=youtube;JRnLwsUklKE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnLwsUklKE[/video]

Click to expand...

NAR29996 said:

I wonder how poorly that capsule would fare landing on asphalt? Not too well, I would think.

Click to expand...

One thing that can increase its odds of survival would be to rig the capsule with a length of line that forces the tower to point up slightly, much like the old Centuri kit's instructions had you do.

samb said:

I hadn't heard that before. In that case it is a very useless number to me. I always used it as a gauge to see how heavy (or light) I was building.

Click to expand...

While true; the package weight is only helpful seeing the Raw Material mass including packaging. It would still give you an Idea of approximately where your finished model mass should start. If flying your model naked it might be very close as the mass of the instructions and Packaging should offset the mass of your added glue & adhesive weight.
I've found even when building extremely light my finishing (Fillets, Primer & Paint) always makes the model somewhat heavier then the packaged mass. I use my finished mass to check against the manufacture's suggested Motor List to see that my liftoff mass is still well within the lifting mass of the listed motors.

Pay NO attention to the catalog mass.

Click to expand...

The mass stated on the package is typically based on the average weight of the six PP samples of the kits I build for final test flying before the kit gets released. We also correct any instruction mistakes that are needed at this stage as well. Although we still miss stuff in the instructions from time to time. The biggest difference in weight factor in building a model usually falls in several places. The balsa weight used in the fins and those kits that have balsa cones can vary greatly. If you use epoxy for your build and fillets your going to add a lot of weight. If you paper your fins your model will be heavier. I typically shoot two heavy coats of primer and two coats of color paint on the models. Some modelers may use less material to finish their models some will use more. If I am making a show quality model for display I will be WAY over the stated weight stated on the packaging. I also most forgot. Many people install a much heavier recovery system in their model. I build ALL Estes models with the materials that come in the package.

John Boren

JumpJet said:

The mass stated on the package is typically based on the average weight of the six PP samples of the kits I build for final test flying before the kit gets released. We also correct any instruction mistakes that are needed at this stage as well. Although we still miss stuff in the instructions from time to time. The biggest difference in weight factor in building a model usually falls in several places. The balsa weight used in the fins and those kits that have balsa cones can vary greatly. If you use epoxy for your build and fillets your going to add a lot of weight. If you paper your fins your model will be heavier. I typically shoot two heavy coats of primer and two coats of color paint on the models. Some modelers may use less material to finish their models some will use more. If I am making a show quality model for display I will be WAY over the stated weight stated on the packaging. I also most forgot. Many people install a much heavier recovery system in their model. I build ALL Estes models with the materials that come in the package.

John Boren

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad the package weight has some connection to actual models. I think I'll continue to use it as I have in the past; a useful number to compare with my builds.

I have seen a MR fly on both a D12 and a C11(same rocket), person added 14g to the nose, I liked the C11 flights over the D12.
Rex

Rex R said:

I have seen a MR fly on both a D12 and a C11(same rocket), person added 14g to the nose, I liked the C11 flights over the D12.
Rex

Click to expand...

Me too. I think the C11 will be the sweet spot, allowing good flights in other than dead calm conditions.

Ccolvin968 said:

Bought this skill level 3 kit the other day and had a blast assembling it.
Max altitude is only 200 ft. But it sounded like a cool little guy to fly.
I got it to our club launch day, and with a C6-3 (the only recommended motor) launched it...
It seemed very under powered. It's got a nice slow liftoff, but not much higher, it starts flying very sideways.
I'd say maybe 100-150 ft at best and it was an absolutely calm day. No issues with the fins or anything.
Has anyone else had the same issues or is it just me?

Click to expand...

IMHO, the kit as designed, is marginal on C impulse motors. On the older MR kits the capsule was balsa, and the C motors were fine. I believe this kit would have been better suited with a 24 mm MMT and maybe some more nose weight instead of the 18 mm MMT.

When I built the kit I made some mods to the capsule that made it so heavy that it was outside the safe limits of a C motor. So I went with an AeroTech 18/20 RMS and a D13-4W reload. That was my first composite motor. Wow! What a rush! It was a great flight and was my entree into composite motors.

Greg

Now, that came out nice! Looks wicked clean.

Wow, you guys have inspired me to get mine out and finish it! I stalled out at doing the wraps, for some reason...

I love the rocket. Hopefully I can get her flying straight soon or try the AT D10-5 just to see how that works out.
If not, at the very minimum, she will make a very pretty wall rocket.

Here's an image I found on Chris' blog showing an option on how to rig the Centuri version of the MR to keep the tower up.



My variation would be to move the forward attachment point to the capsule/flange joint (where the 3 pieces of the capsule come together and fit under the "cap" that holds the tower assembly). I'd then hang the rest of the rocket from the back end of the capsule.

K'Tesh said:

Here's an image I found on Chris' blog showing an option on how to rig the Centuri version of the MR to keep the tower up.

My variation would be to move the forward attachment point to the capsule/flange joint (where the 3 pieces of the capsule come together and fit under the "cap" that holds the tower assembly). I'd then hang the rest of the rocket from the back end of the capsule.

Click to expand...

Or run dual chutes, 1 for capsule and 1 for booster? Makes a bit more complicated but sometimes that can be fun...

K'Tesh said:

Here's an image I found on Chris' blog showing an option on how to rig the Centuri version of the MR to keep the tower up.

My variation would be to move the forward attachment point to the capsule/flange joint (where the 3 pieces of the capsule come together and fit under the "cap" that holds the tower assembly). I'd then hang the rest of the rocket from the back end of the capsule.

Click to expand...

One advantage to tying the 8" line that high is if the tower were to pop off on a hard landing it would still remain tied to the capsule.
I was told by the Centuri guys that tower was meant to pop off in one piece (below the inverted "Vs") instead of possibly breaking into smaller pieces.
Notice in the tie drawing that the spike isn't in place. Centuri instructions said not to glue it on. Insert for display, remove it for flight.