Starship Avalon: build thread

For masking, maybe go to the LHS and find a liquid masking film that you can brush on exactly where you want it. There's a few brands that the plastic modelers use. Names escape me though.

I have to say, I am starting to come around to the idea of using liquid masking. There are some areas, like the outsides of the helical pieces, that will be very easy to do just with tape, but other areas could be difficult. So maybe a combination of the two would work for me.

Two things that concern me:
1) After applying the liquid mask, I'd need to cut it to shape. For this model, the cutting will be a curved path just off the edges of the various fins. That sounds like it could be tough to do accurately, and if you do one bad cut you're screwed.
2) I'm pretty much banned from using smelly stuff, and it sounds like the liquid mask has a strong odor, despite being water-based (I haven't smelled it myself, though, so I'm not certain). Maybe if I could apply it at work I could get away with it, dunno.

Kinda sounds like I should get a bottle and experiment with it.

I haven't used mine in a while, but I don't recall it having a strong or offensive odor. As far as trimming it to shape, use a brand new #11 blade and work s-l-o-w-l-y.

Oh, these stupid rings. They will need to be painted first and and then attached after the rest of the rocket is painted. I hate that. They will also need to be cut into three pieces, with each piece surface-mounted between two fins. I hate that too. But I can't figure out any way around it, so just need to cope.

First I needed to mark exactly where the fins will intersect each ring. I laid each ring on its fins, centered it as best I could, and marked the locations on the ring, like so:

[note: this was done before I attached the helixes]

Getting the ring centered into place and then making the marks without moving it was incredibly frustrating and difficult. Also of interest: to assist centering the ring on the fins, I made marks on the fins where I though the ring should intersect. The ring ended up landing about 1/16" higher up on each fin than my measured mark. I have no explanation for how this could be so, and it's quite bothersome.

Anyway, I made complete marks across the rings, and also made marks on the inside where the engine hook is:


Those lines on the outside will eventually be cut lines. Then I glued some square 1/8" basswood dowel to each strip, like so:


Now I will have (a) a way to hold the rings while painting them, or I could just stand them up, and (b) a way to put them down to dry. This whole cockamamie scheme comes from having learned when I primed them.

I will still need to mask a bit more to clear some gluing area, and I will likely also need to mask off a bit of the fins where the rings will join, then hand-touch up after gluing them. I hate all that too.

But I gotta have the rings.

neil_w said:

Oh, these stupid rings. They will ... I hate that. They will also ... I hate that too... I hate all that too. But I gotta have the rings.

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Looking at that, an idea forms -- we need a member good with cliffhanger serial scripts to write "Starship Avalon and the Rings of Hate".
Actually, I kind of like the ring stand sticks. (and if this were in German we could probably make one word out of ringstandsticks)

couldn't you cut into the fin half of the ring width and cut into the ring the same measurement ? kind of like interlocking tabs?

Here's an alternate paint scheme I've been pondering for a while, which is designed to (a) simplify the masking for the accent coat, and (b) eliminate the need for the rings. As much as I like the look of the original design, I like this one too and it would be *much* less stressful to implement.


No decisions yet, just considering options

JJSR said:

couldn't you cut into the fin half of the ring width and cut into the ring the same measurement ? kind of like interlocking tabs?

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+1 on that note!

JJSR said:

couldn't you cut into the fin half of the ring width and cut into the ring the same measurement ? kind of like interlocking tabs?

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If I understand the suggestion the correctly, I'd have to slot partway into the fins and get the position exactly right. Certainly, it would provide a pretty secure mounting for the rings, and maybe (?) would reduce how much I'd need to mask off on the fins to save gluing area. Wouldn't change the fact though that I need to do all that assembly post-painting, and then would need hand touch-ups to clean it all up.

Could I cut the slots post-painting? I suppose I could.

Dunno. I'm a bit skittish about doing a delicate operation like that right at the very end of the build, where it'd be so easy to mess things up.

neil_w said:

Could I cut the slots post-painting? I suppose I could.

Dunno. I'm a bit skittish about doing a delicate operation like that right at the very end of the build, where it'd be so easy to mess things up.

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You could indeed slot before painting. In fact, that's the smart way to go about it. You could limit the amount of slot you cut into the fin and increase the slot you make in the ring. Say....1/3rd fin slot to 2/3rd ring slot. Keeping the fin strength stronger. By and large, slotting would be way easier than dicing up your ring to fit. Remember, cutting the ring will cause them to relax and make for difficult mounting. As well as making it easier for them to look "not so round" anymore. Consider the Astron Sprite ring attachment where you mount the entire ring and finish off the fin assembly afterward. You can also tweak the fin slots if they are binding too much. Once you get your "pre-fitting" done, you can mask off glue areas and paint prior to assembly. Honestly, I can think of no better way to approach this.

Just so we all know what I mean,, I just cut these quick with scissors

Its the strongest joint you'll get for this kind of thing. Neil,, believe me,,, I think I should have gone this rout. Also, If you make your own ring you can make it as tough as you need more glue thicker paper.

neil_w said:

...so just need to cope...

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rim shot! you may be on to something there...coping is a construction technique where you saw one part of a shaped molding to match the contour of the other, as an alternative to straight miter cuts. rounding the end of the slot in the ring to match the contour of the rounded trailing edge is sort of like coping. So, yeah, I guess you just need to cope!

Doing an interlock like Joe suggests would certainly give me a nice strong joint, and let me keep the rings in one piece, but I would need to change the design to accommodate it (as designed the rings are intended to be centered on their respective fins). I would still be not enthused about cutting the slots in the fins at this point.

I am pretty heavily leaning towards ditching the rings at this point. I don't need the aggravation.

The deafening silence in response to the last rendering I posted is not encouraging, but I still think i can do something decent with it. More Paint.net experimentation to come.

This is close to the fluorescent green paint I have. Dunno why it took so long for me to realize my renderings were so far off. Here's an updated (but not yet finished) version of the no-rings paint job.

I think it looks great w/o the rings. Go with it.

Thanks for saying what I wanted to hear, regardless of whether you believe it.

I didn't put no damn rings on mine either!

Let me quot a great designer, about rings on a rocket ("it really ties the room together")

I think it needs the rings. Gary yours also, needs something. could you slot half the ring and not the fin?



maybe you could fit some kind of ring/rings in here?

JJSR said:

I think it needs the rings. Gary yours also, needs something. could you slot half the ring and not the fin?

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Ah, but what you may not know is, mine was a boiler plate. A very simplified rendition just to see if the helix would stable the rocket. Neither Neil or myself had a clue at the time, if they'd even work. Mine just has pylons in place of the fins. All this was back way early in the build thread. I planned to use the modified nose cone on a different project and scrap the rest. It was built simply to give Neil a reason to go forth.

Here's my tentatively "final" paint scheme for the version sans rings:


I'm about 90% certain I'm going to go this way. It'll be plenty challenging but still much easier than the old scheme.

I confess it does look a bit better with the rings, but I think it still looks good (and more importantly Good Enough), without. However, I'll still play with the rings version a bit more before I finalize. I really need to settle this because it's holding up a 3-rocket vinyl order from Mark Hayes (I was hoping to order all three at once, the sort of strategy that always gets me into trouble). Most of what's here would be done with cut vinyl paint mask. Should be interesting. One worrisome aspect: To execute this I'm going to need to leave the mask on a relatively long time, which I think is what got me in trouble in the past. Will have to proceed carefully.

I think it looks sharp. No way you won't get some attention at the next launch. It's a head turner.
Maybe I just missed it in a previous post, but what font is that?

Gary Byrum said:

Maybe I just missed it in a previous post, but what font is that?

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Sandoval. Mark knew it on sight, guess I'm not the first to discover it.

neil_w said:

Sandoval. Mark knew it on sight, guess I'm not the first to discover it.

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Hard to believe that one got past me. I'm a font hoarder! Thanks.

If I weren't ordering vinyl for this, I wouldn't need to nail all the details down in advance like this. But I am, so I do. Sorry to keep going round on this.

Two significant additions here:
1) Bands across the fin can BT, which creates an impression slightly like the rings I removed
2) Windows on the outer portion of the helix. Can't do this in OR, so I mocked it up in a paint program. I've been meaning to try this out for a while. In the movie, the windows seem to be mostly on the insides and sides of the helixes, but that's not practical for me so I figured I'd try them on the outside. It does (?) give a bit more of a passenger-starship vibe.


What say you all in the peanut gallery?

Looking good my friend :wink:

Today I put an utterly awful coat of black paint on the rocket. It might be fair to say that this rocket is a bit beyond my ability to paint.

Well, the nose section came OK; that was previously painted and sanded down, and there were no hard-to-access areas on it, so it was straightforward. But the rest of the rocket looks a lot worse than I would have hoped. Maybe it'll level out a bit as it dries.

I saw two primary problems with the paint:
1) In and around the fins, it just wasn't laying smooth. I'm not sure why. As I said, maybe it'll improve a bit as it dries. I hope.
2) In the attempt to get the spray into all the nooks and crannies in the fin can, I ended up with significant runs on the outside of the helical pieces. Eventually I will attempt to sand them to remove the excess, and hopefully that'll fix that. I'll report back later once I know more.

Upon completion I was somewhat inclined to throw the rocket into the woods.

Here's a picture in which it looks better than it really is:


To add a bit of annoyance, I had meant to test the size of some decal images on the rocket before I painted, but now I shall have to wait a day or two before I can finish that up.

So the *good* news is that I did *not* throw the rocket into the woods, and for better or worse the black coat is finished. Now I need to get the paint mask from Stickershock23 before I can continue.

Sounds to me like, you need to use an airbrush on builds like this. Those "nooks & crannies" are definitely hard to nail with a rattle can. And as for bad paint days, I am no stranger to those either. Here's what happens to a can of 2X that just will not cooperate.

neil_w said:

...2) Windows on the outer portion of the helix. ... a bit more of a passenger-starship vibe...

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YES! now you are talking! Now that really does look like a Starship.

Gary Byrum said:

Sounds to me like, you need to use an airbrush on builds like this. Those "nooks & crannies" are definitely hard to nail with a rattle can. And as for bad paint days, I am no stranger to those either.

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Yes, an airbrush would have done the trick, but I am not so equipped. In this case I should have gone with plan A, which was to paint with the helixes off, and then attach them at the end. That would have introduced its own set of difficulties, but I think they would have been better contained. Nothing I can do now but plow forwards. My next color coats should be nice and, uh, "simple".

One takeaway from this is that a sprayed final clear coat is out of the question; there is *no way* I'll be able to get it on even remotely evenly. It'll be a coat or two of brushed-on Future for this guy. Too bad, really, because it could really use a less glossy finish, but oh well.

GlenP said:

YES! now you are talking! Now that really does look like a Starship.

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I'm happy with the way that looks. Whether the actual rocket will end up looking like that is another matter.

I think for the last touch I do need some sort of cockpit windows in the nose.

Don't let a few paint foibles get you down. Just and off the run after it thoroughly dries and paint again. Looking good.