L3 build documentation and protocol

CzTeacherMan said:

Interesting... At QCRS, we're all kind of in everybody's rocket projects all the time anyway. We're always scuffing around to see what people are doing, and there's not much room for someone to rush out be sloppy because we tend to notice it quickly. Someone got their L2 at Mini MWP this spring and I can think of around a dozen guys that worked with him at various stages of construction leaving zero room for a reckless flight.
...
If other clubs are less... Involved... With each other's projects, yeah, I guess recklessness could happen then.

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Things have changed in the community as a whole since I flew there. It's definitely easier now to find information on best practices and different techniques as well as interact with people outside of the launches. The club I used to fly with was Albuquerque Rocket Society. Great group of flyers, but we all tended to work on our own projects. Most of my issues were due to my own stubbornness, a lot of procrastination, and go fever, which is hard to coach even if everyone is involved in everyone's projects.

To OP , I emailed my construction package and sim file to L3CC I'm NAR , we exchanged several emails on mach + fin flutter before I got the green light to build

I'm using a RW full scale Arcas on M1297 sims 11208 feet mach 1.08

tbonerocketeer said:

A lot of people show up prepped for flight...

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Is there something wrong with that? Not trolling here. I try and get as much prepping done before I get out to the launch site 'cause I wanna fly more and not be wasting precious flying time prepping rockets. Now if speaking about an L3 attempt, sheesh we're big boys and girls. Some motors the grains need to be epoxied to the liner. I think by the time one is at this stage, one doesn't need to be breathing down their neck while motor building. Kurt

ksaves2 said:

Is there something wrong with that? Not trolling here. I try and get as much prepping done before I get out to the launch site 'cause I wanna fly more and not be wasting precious flying time prepping rockets. Now if speaking about an L3 attempt, sheesh we're big boys and girls. Some motors the grains need to be epoxied to the liner. I think by the time one is at this stage, one doesn't need to be breathing down their neck while motor building. Kurt

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There is nothing inherently wrong with that. However, if a flyer shows up at a field wanting to do their L3 cert and this is the first time they've talked to/seen the TAP, I would expect the TAP to do a thorough review and make them take the rocket apart to show recovery configurations, avionics, etc. That said, if you are in constant communication with the TAP and do a build thread detailing your build then showing up ready to fly shouldn't pose a problem.

Eric;
I know u got ur L3 fairly recently but $1000 on a build, man I'm way north of that .

On my L2 I went to OAMC where they didn't know me, they put my rocket through the ringer before they OK'd it flight worthy, took my fins pulling, pushing, really cranked on them .."holy smokes I hope my magnum survives Joe G's muscle let alone the flight", it did and cert went well. Questions upon questions - which I brought all paperwork with me to the launch so they could see the build.

That taught me what an RSO can do to check a rocket and well he/she should, so that is remembered in my builds. Most people know all this before they reach the L3 phase, that's why L1 & L2 come first, it's a process.

Nick@JET said:

Eric;
I know u got ur L3 fairly recently but $1000 on a build, man I'm way north of that .

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LoL!!! I know, but I was being as conservative as I could be. Heck, the motor alone was $600, and I got a steal of a deal on a hardware/motor combo. And anyone that knows, knows that I got the rocket for free from Adrian, that big lovable lunk... Even still, I spend a bunch on epoxy, paint, hardware, electronics... Yadda yadda yadda

CzTeacherMan said:

LoL!!! I know, but I was being as conservative as I could be. Heck, the motor alone was $600, and I got a steal of a deal on a hardware/motor combo. And anyone that knows, knows that I got the rocket for free from Adrian, that big lovable lunk... Even still, I spend a bunch on epoxy, paint, hardware, electronics... Yadda yadda yadda

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Wow. I'm looking at $185 for a long burn L motor with a free casing on the CTI certification special for my L3. I'm looking at about $600 for the while thing.

mccordmw said:

Wow. I'm looking at $185 for a long burn L motor with a free casing on the CTI certification special for my L3. I'm looking at about $600 for the while thing.

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How does a L motor get you a L3?

Titan II said:

How does a L motor get you a L3?

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It doesn't, unless you cert in Canada. M=L-4 LOL

ksaves2 said:

Is there something wrong with that? Not trolling here. I try and get as much prepping done before I get out to the launch site 'cause I wanna fly more and not be wasting precious flying time prepping rockets. Now if speaking about an L3 attempt, sheesh we're big boys and girls. Some motors the grains need to be epoxied to the liner. I think by the time one is at this stage, one doesn't need to be breathing down their neck while motor building. Kurt

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Nope, but I was replying to the comment about everyone helping everyone else prep and that reducing messups.

I've read this post and have seen more than a few individuals fail their certification flights due to a lack of basic understanding in building, recovery, motor selection as well as stability analysis of the rocket in flight. In my opinion each level is a learning step for the next level as you gain experience in the certification level that you hold. I have RSO'd many rockets of all levels, even the hobby type. Sure, I may not be the most popular RSO but my job is to support the flier to make sure they have a safe and successful flight. Many times a flier has thanked me for taking the time to explain something to them at the RSO table they were not aware of for a safer flight. On a recent L3 cert, I took the time as I would take on prepping any one of my L3 birds. The flier asked me why I was being so meticulous in checking his rocket. I told him, "because I want you to have a successful flight" There was a small change I asked him to make and he asked why and he looked at his TAP and the TAP said the RSO has final say and I explained to him my reasoning and he agreed. Later that day he thanked me for a much better recovery than what he had expected. He got his L3. I've been associated with Tripoli for over 20 years and in my time before the certification process we were confirmed. I like to pay forward and help newbies and experienced alike as I find I learn something at each launch I attend.

TMJ sorry to hijack the thread - seams appropriate place to ask

GARY K. - I know this may seam like a simple questions - but since we are on the subject (I have L3 attempt in a little over a month) what sort of things are RSO's looking for or what have some of the things you have seen that have thrown up a red flag. I believe I have a reasonable understanding of what I want to present to the the RSO - but this seams like a good thing to post to ward off potential issues. Love to hear RSO's thoughts on this.

TMJ if you feel this will derail this thread post back I'll start a new thread

Thanks

Nick@JET said:

TMJ sorry to hijack the thread - seams appropriate place to ask

GARY K. - I know this may seam like a simple questions - but since we are on the subject (I have L3 attempt in a little over a month) what sort of things are RSO's looking for or what have some of the things you have seen that have thrown up a red flag. I believe I have a reasonable understanding of what I want to present to the the RSO - but this seams like a good thing to post to ward off potential issues. Love to hear RSO's thoughts on this.

TMJ if you feel this will derail this thread post back I'll start a new thread

Thanks

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Nick - I think it would make a great thread "How to RSO an L3 flight for which you were not the TAP or L3CC"

I'll wait to post my thoughts just in case you decide to open another thread -

I see no 'derailments' here! An interesting subject, without doubt!!!