Dr. Zooch Vanguard Eagle- Beta Build Thread

Hey guys! Well, having just returned from vacation, I've gotten permission to post a build thread on the Vanguard Eagle Beta Build I conducted for him while I was in Indiana at the MIL's house... First, a BIG thanks to Wes at Dr. Zooch Rockets for allowing me to build this neat rocket for him, and helping me to keep my sanity while the wife and MIL discussed quilts and other "girl stuff"...

SO, let's get to it...

First, this Vanguard Eagle is modeled after the Vanguard Eagle rocket designed for the X-Prize competition (which probably everyone knows was won by Burt Rutan's Space Ship One, but probably bears repeating). The model is an interesting build and creates a nice-looking, visually interesting rocket. It's rather novel for a Dr. Zooch kit, in that it uses a hollow cast-resin nosecone to replicate the complex shape and panel lines of the Vanguard Eagle nosecone/spacecraft, which is a first in a Dr. Zooch kit. The nosecone has lots of hatch and window details, and four raised hemicylindrical rocket engine fairings that made the capsule very difficult to render in Dr. Zooch's usually preferred balsa, and virtually impossible to mass produce in balsa. It's a REALLY nice looking nosecone! More on that later.

The kit contents consist of:
1) A series of tubes, from T60 for the first stage, to T55 for the upper stage, and a series of structural and detail T20 tubes.
2) The Alumilite spacecraft nosecone
3) A group of centering rings-- four CR2055, one notched CR2060, one CR5560
4) Balsa plugs-- one T55 ballasted, two T20 unballasted.
5) Kit bag- screw eye, snap swivel, engine clip, an 18mm engine block ring, launch lug
6) Extra engine clip for the second stage
7) Two 6x3 balsa fin sheets
8) Printed wrap sheets with assembly patterns/marking guides
9) Recovery kitbag-- trash bag chute, shock cord, kevlar leader, sticky dots, shroud line.
10) Stick on decals for the finished kit
11) Component/Detail kit bag-- four small wood nozzles, small dowel
12) Instructions with the usual Dr. Zooch artwork/sarcasm...

You'll need to come up with the usual paints/glues/hobby knife and other tools and building supplies, and a 3/32 drill bit.

More to come... OL JR

Ok... so, after inspecting the contents of the box and ensuring everything was there and familarizing myself with the instructions, I got started building. This kit uses some rather novel (to me) construction and design that looks to be very well thought out!

The first thing we do is cut a tube marking guide from the wrap sheet using a straightedge and hobby knife for the T55 tube. Wrapping it around the T55 and taping the ends of the guide together, we measure up the T55 so we have a 1 7/8 section, a 1 inch section, and the remainder of the tube, and cut the tube into three pieces with the hobby knife. We set the 1 inch and remainder of the T55 tube aside.

Mark the 1 7/8 inch piece precisely 1 inch from one end. Slide the CR5560 ring over the tube and glue it over the mark, ensuring it's level, with white glue, and allow to dry. This is the "Interstage Can". Make sure you mark the 7/8 inch side, to differentiate it from the 1 inch side, which is important in later steps! Just write 7/8 on the proper side with a pencil above the centering ring.

Take the long T20 tube and install the motor mount. Cut a small slit for the engine hook 2 1/2 inches from one end, install the hook, and tape the hook down to the tube securely with electrical tape about halfway down the hook. Mark the engine tube 1/2 inch above the tube end by the hook, and glue the notched CR2060 ring ABOVE that mark (I ended up 1/8 inch too long on the final assembly, but fortunately the glue hadn't set when I finished and I could slide the ring up and re-fillet, so it wasn't a big deal, BUT, the overall length of this assembly is CRITICAL because it fits with the aft 2060 notched ring and the forward 5560 centering ring on the Interstage can BOTH sitting flush to the ends of the T60 tube! SO make sure everything is correct BEFORE the glue dries!!!!) Mark the other end of the engine tube 1 inch below the top edge, and glue a CR2055 ring straight and level there, and glue the last 2055 ring flush with the end of the tube above it and allow to dry.

Carefully cut three roughly 1/4 inch square holes roughly arranged in a triangle around the engine tube, between the upper two 2055 centering rings. These are vents for the booster rocket motor gases at staging. They aren't especially critical to get perfect, but don't make them TOO big or you'll weaken the tube, or TOO small or you'll trap too much pressure in the tube at staging, and try to get them rather evenly spaced. Remove the unneeded bits of tube.

Get one of the four 3 inch long T20 tubes from the kit, and slit it lengthwise with the hobby knife. Apply white glue inside it, and spread it open and slide it over the engine tube, just below the middle centering ring above the engine hook. This tube reinforces the engine tube to prevent tube erosion and burn-through at staging.

Now take the Interstage Can from before, and ensure that the 7/8 side is UP and test fit it over the two 2055 rings on the forward end of the motor tube, making the bottom of the Interstage Can tube flush with the lower 2055 centering ring. You might have to sand the rings a little to get it all to fit, but it shouldn't take much at all. Once satisfied with the test fit, glue the tube over the 2055 rings. Once dry, cut four 1/4 square holes BELOW the 5560 centering ring on the Interstage Can. Try to space them fairly evenly around the tube, and I cut mine *slightly* larger than the three inner square holes in the motor tube, and staggered so they didn't exactly line up with the inner motor tube holes, to create a "Staging baffle". This should prevent the hot gases at staging from bubbling the paint on the outer tube in flight.

Here's some pictures of the completed booster engine mount... More to come! OL JR

With the booster engine tube/baffle complete, we're ready to install it in the T60 tube. Test fit it by sliding the bottom end down the tube-- you may have to sand the notched 2060 ring a tiny bit for a smooth sliding fit- and if you did it right, the notched 2060 ring will be flush with the back end of the T60, and the upper 5560 ring with be halfway in the T60 tube at the front end, with just a LITTLE BIT of the ring extending up outside the tube, to create a 'ledge' for gluing on the paper stage transition later. I kinda goofed when I did mine, and ended up on the wrong side of both lines, and ended up 1/8 inch too long. Since the glue on the lower centerin ring was still wet, though, I slid the ring up and refilleted it and came out just fine. Once satisfied with the fit, apply some glue in both ends of the tube and slide the motor mount back in, and glue it in place.

Cut out the first stage marking guide from the wrap sheet, and wrap it around the first stage about 1/8 inch or so above the bottom of the tube, and secure it's ends together with tape. PRECISELY mark the fin locations and SRB center points around the circumference of the booster stage, top and bottom of the guide. Make sure the fin marks don't line up precisely with the engine hook, but you don't want the engine hook lined up with the SRB's either, so turn the guide a bit to put the engine hook BETWEEN the two before you start marking everything.

Now we move on to the second stage. Take your T55 tube marking guide and mark and cut another 1 inch long piece of tube off the T55. Mark and cut this 1 inch piece along it's length top to bottom, overlap the cut edges and slide the piece into the remaining T55, and making sure the ends are even and the piece is a snug fit, mark where the edges overlap. Remove the slit T55 section, connect the marks together, and carefully cut this extra strip of tubing off the edge of the slit. This will create a cheapy stage coupler, when you glue that slit to the inside of the slit tube piece, overlapping both cut edges when they're butted together. Voila! Instant staging coupler! Be sure you test fit the thing in the T55 before you glue the cut off strip on the inside of it, and then glue it up and set it aside to dry.

Cut a notch in one of the 2055 centering rings for the upperstage engine hook, and set it aside. Take the second of the four short T20 tubes, and mark it 2 1/8 inches from the bottom for the engine hook slot, and cut the slot. Cut and glue the "REINFORCEMENT BAND" from the wrap sheet onto the engine tube just below the hook slot. Install the hook and ensure it's straight with the tube, and tape it down with electrical tape. The hook with overhang the back of the engine tube A LOT more than you typically see... this is correct. Mark the tube and test fit then glue the 2055 centering ring you just notched over the bottom of the motor tube, 3/4 inch from the bottom of the tube, and ensure it's straight, square, and true.

Install the upper centering ring over the motor tube and glue it in place, about 1/4 inch down below the top of the tube. I actually notched the outer edge and installed the kevlar leader over the ring, tied to itself around the motor tube, in lieu of the typical glue-in shock cord mount usually used, but this was not in the instructions. Glue the 18mm engine block in the top of the upperstage motor tube above the engine hook with white glue. Set the motor mount aside to dry.

Test fit the motor mount in the remaining piece of T55 tubing. Sand the rings a little to get a smooth fit. Remove the motor mount and mark the inside of the T55 3/8 inch from the bottom, smear some WHITE GLUE above that point all the way around, and then slide the motor mount in, until the motor mount is above but flush with the 3/8 mark. Glue the homemade tube coupler into the T55 below it, flush with the bottom motor mount ring, and fillet everything well, and set it aside to dry. The upperstage tube is now complete!

More to come! OL JR

Now we move on to the resin spacecraft nosecone. It's cast from Alumilite (a casting resin) poured into a mold and 'swished around' to create a thin, fairly even layer inside the mold. This makes the cast part nice and light for rocket use. It may appear rather thin in some areas, but it's strong and looks great! The lower edge of the tube shoulder may be a bit jagged from the molding/demolding process, but it's inside a tube and not an issue.

Test fit the spacecraft into the 1 inch piece of T55 you cut back at the beginning. You might need to sand or trim a bit to get it to fit, but don't go for perfection-- the nosecone is glued into the T55 with epoxy once you get a good fit, so don't sweat it. Once glued in place, grab the ballasted T55 balsa block from the box, and glue it into the bottom of the 1 inch T55 tube, with about 1/4 inch or so of the block up inside the tube below the nosecone, ballasted side up (the wood-filler capped hole up). Once dry, test fit the balsa block/nosecone into the top of the upperstage body tube-- it should fit smoothly and seperate smoothly for the parachute to eject. If you want to put a little extra detail on your capsule, cut and sand a small bit of balsa into a tiny 1/8 by 3/16 inch "egg" shaped camera pod, and glue it with CA to the outside of the capsule, just above the hatch as indicated in the instructions. It's a bit time consuming but good practice, working and shaping such small bits and installing them correctly...

More to come! OL JR

Now back to the first stage-- building the SRB's. The Vanguard Eagle is unusual in that it has half round "recessed" SRB's on the first stage between the fins. These are fun and novel to construct, and you'll learn some valuable skills here to model such details on other rockets and designs you may come up with at some point. Start with the two T20 balsa plugs. These are standard cylindrical flat-ended balsa "cargo compartment" type balsa plugs. Mark each 3/8 inch from one end, all the way around. Using sandpaper, a bit of elbow grease, and some time, round each plug off to a rounded nose-cone like shape down to the 3/8 inch line, keeping them as even and symmetrical as possible. Once you have both rounded down to your liking, and hopefully as nearly identical as possible, carefully cut each "nosecone/plug" EXACTLY IN HALF VERTICALLY (yes, VERTICALLY!) This is where a handy-dandy X-Acto razor saw comes in VERY handy-- if you don't have one, print off a 30-40% off Hobby Lobby coupon and go get one-- you won't regret it! Now take each nose cone plug half, and cut the plug into four pieces-- one half-bullet shaped nose cone piece, and three "half-moon" pieces, the half moons being about 1/4 inch thick or so. Be sure to leave enough 'shoulder' on the nosecone part to glue it inside the tubes.

Take the 2 remaining T20 tubes, mark them so that you can cut them in half vertically, using a marking guide and metal angle or doorframe. Cut both the tubes into two equal halves vertically. The instructions recommend sanding the edges gently to the contour of the T60, but I found this somewhat redundant, so I passed over this step til later. Glue the nosecone into the top part of each tube half with the rounded part sticking out of the top of the tube half (above the 3/8 line). Glue the 3 half-moon shaped half-disks into the tube half below the nosecone-- the middle two strengthen and stiffen the tube for installation on the rocket later- the lowest one serves as the bottom bulkhead of the SRB's, to which a nozzle with later be mounted, and as such must be recessed exactly 3/16 inch from the bottom end of the tube, which then acts as a "fairing" for the nozzle. The nozzles come later, but ensure the placement of the bulkheads is correct and glue them in place. Repeat for the other 3 SRB's. Fillet the parts inside the tubes a bit, and let them dry. Once dry, wrap sandpaper around the T60 first stage, and keeping the SRB's pointing exactly straight up and down as best you can, gently sand them against the first stage (I recommend 220 grit paper for this step) until the SRB's fit smooth and tight against the first stage T60 tube. This will sand in a slight "cup shape" into the nosecone and each bulkhead so they conform to the T60 tube. If there are gaps between the edge of the T20 SRB tubes and the T60, sand a little more until the gaps close and everything is smooth, even, and tight, with as little or no gaps if possible. It takes a bit of time and care, but the results are worth it. Be sure you sand as close to straight up and down the T60 as you can, holding the T20 SRB's as close to perfectly straight up and down as you can, take your time, and inspect the fit from time to time, and you'll do a great job!

Mark the fin slots using the wrap-around guide from before. I had cut the fins out by this point, so I merely marked the fin locations and then held the fin precisely in place, and very gently outlined it onto the tube with a mechanical fine-point pencil, so the fin slots are precise and tight. Using a straightedge, then cut the fin slots into the rocket tube as marked and remove the extra tube bits.

Now you can glue on the SRB's, precisely located between the fin slots as marked. The bottom edge of the bottom balsa half-moon bulkhead should be flush with the bottom of the T60 booster stage tube.

At this point, mount the whole thing on a paint stick and give it a few coats of flat white paint. I primed mine with 3 layers of primer and sanded with 220 to take most of the primer off, filling the tube spirals in the process. Then I switched to 400 wet/dry paper dampened in water to finish sand the tube and get it glassy smooth before hitting it with a couple or three coats of Walmart Colorplace flat white enamel, and got a great finish.

I actually installed the fins first, going against the recommendation of the instructions, but using my usual practice. I'd recommend doing it as the instructions say, because painting the fins (which are completely black) later is a PITA which the instructions wisely avoid.

More later! OL JR

So, now we come to the fins. Cut the fin templates from the wrap sheet, and noting the grain direction, trace the outlines onto the balsa fin sheets. Cut the fins out and stack-sand them to get them all identical.

This subject seems to come up fairly common, and I might go on and spin this off into it's own thread at some point, but I'll go over it here for now since it's part of how I built this rocket. I went beyond the instructions a bit (with Dr. Zooch's blessing) and papered the fins. Since questions have come up about adding a bunch of weight and this method or that method being superior, I thought I'd detail the process for the uninitiated as part of this build. I weighed the fin "blanks" before papering and afterward to see how much weight is REALLY added by doing this, at least on "typical" LPR rocket size fins. A discussion on other methods or their relative merits is outside the purview of this thread, but I merely document what I've been doing and works very well for me, and which I encourage other members to try and adopt or not as they see fit from their own experience, skill, and comfort base.

After stack-sanding all the fins to identical size and shape, I airfoiled the fins with typical rounded leading edges and tapered trailing edges, with square root and tip edges, of course. The fins are now ready to paper. At this point, each upper stage fin weighed in at 0.2 grams each. I grabbed some printer paper and cut it into pieces sufficient to cover both sides of each fin at once, folded over the leading edge, with a healthy margin all the way around. The size of the paper pieces varies with the shape and size of the fin, and the degree of sweep-- highly swept fins take up more paper! To size the pieces, I lay a fin on the sheet with the leading edge near the center, gently outline it a bit with a pencil, and roll it over the leading edge and trace it again, so that I can make sure to cut the paper large enough with a sufficient margin all the way around. Apply a thin layer of white glue to the paper and spread it evenly and thinly across the entire surface area of the first side of where the fin will go. Press the fin down firmly onto the paper, and apply another thin uniform layer of glue to the topside of the fin, working it around and over the leading edge of the fin. Fold the paper and fin over, keeping the paper snug as you roll the fin over, and press the fin tightly against the paper again. Grab the round end of a Sharpie marker and, starting at the leading edge of the fin, start at the center of the leading edge and work the excess glue out to both the root and tip edge of the fin, and from the leading edge toward the back across the face of the fin, smoothing and burnishing the paper down while gently rolling and squeezing the excess glue and any trapped air to the tip and root edges, and the trailing edge. With tapered trailing edges, gently roll the fin up so the backside of the trailing edge is supported on the table as you finish burnishing the paper down to the fin along the trailing edge, squeezing any extra glue outwards as you glue the paper to itself off the edge of the fin. I also burnish the root and tip edges down along the edges of the fin to ensure the paper is tight to the fin and the excess glue is squeezed out, and to "round" the paper slightly over the edge of the fin slightly. This makes for neater cutting later.

Flip the fin and repeat the burnishing, identically to the other side. The fin can be set aside to dry, usually overnight, while you do the rest of the fins. When they're all dry, they're ready to be cut out. I usually start with scissors, cutting the fins out to within about 1/4 inch or so of the fin edges. Then, using a SHARP hobby knife (new blade is preferable) I gently "shave" the paper off the edges of the fins, down flush to the edges of the balsa root and tip edges, and down to the knife edge of the tapered trailing edge on airfoiled fins. For wedge-shaped fins like the Zooch Saturn V with square trailing edges, the paper is shaved off flush to the edge identically to the root and tip edges. This also shaves off any excess glue which was squeezed out and dried. Once the fins are shaved off flush, I gently 'dress' the edges by drawing them toward me, inclined at a slight angle, across a piece of 220 grit sandpaper. This will shave off any remaining 'hairs' of paper along the edge of the fin, and take off any excess dried glue or stuff the hobby knife missed. Once "shaved", I then finish dress the fin edges by holding them precisely 90 degrees to the paper and drawing them across the sheet a couple times, to ensure the tip and root edges are completely flat and square, ready for gluing to the rocket.

Here's the pics... More later! OL JR

So, now the pics of the burnishing and finishing...

The fins started off with a weight of 0.20 grams for the upperstage fins. When completed, the upperstage fins with dry glue and paper weighed in at a whopping 0.25 grams-- only 0.05 grams heavier!!!! That's a LOT of added strength, eliminated filling and sanding, and not much extra work for only a slight increase in weight!

Here's more finishing pics... enjoy. More to come on the Vanguard Eagle after this... Later! OL JR

Ok, now the trimming and sanding...

Obviously this is done two handed, but I had to just stop mid-stroke and grab the camera and shoot to get these pics... Can't interrupt the better half's quilt discussion with Mom!

More to come! OL JR

Ok, the finished product, and back to the build thread...

More coming! OL JR

Ok, so the fins get painted black and then are glued into their fin slots on the first stage of the Vanguard Eagle, and the launch lug is cut in half and glued on (I cut mine in half a 45 degree angle so they look better, and cut the back ends at about a 35 degree angle). I tucked the rear launch lug into a fin root, and the upper launch lug carefully aligned with it using a short piece of 1/8 rod from an old store pants "clip" hanger. The fins were glued on using double glue joints of Titebond II Dark, followed by a filleting with Titebond Moulding and Trim Glue which is ideal for this purpose. The upperstage gets no lugs. The upperstage fins have no slots-- they're typical surface mount fins (the lower stage gets more robust TTW fins to help prevent damage).

The conical paper stage transition is next cut from the wrap sheet, glue applied to it's tab, and clamped with smooth-jawed hemostats and allowed to dry. Once dry, it's off to the paint booth for a few coats of clear to seal and protect the printed pattern, which will take a beating at staging no doubt. I had to get creative to find something to put it on for spraying, and happened to notice it fit perfectly over the cap of a mini-can of WD-40, which held it nicely for spraying and drying the few coats of Clearcoat.

Next the paper liquid engine bells are cut from the wrap sheet, shaped, glued up, clamped with smooth hemostats, and allowed to dry. These nozzles are then glued to the aft centering ring on the base of the rocket, evenly spaced surrounding the main booster engine tube, in line with the SRB's. Once these nozzles are securely glued to the base of the rocket, a small 3/32 drill bit is used to drill a hole straight through the centering ring in the center of the nozzle, which allows the rocket exhaust to vent from the staging baffle at the top, down the main body tube, and out the nozzles at staging, which makes them FUNCTIONAL! How cool is that?? Once dried and drilled, they'll all get painted black inside and out.

You can also go ahead and do the SRB rocket nozzles. These are smaller, cut from the wrap sheet, glued, and clamped to dry. The small stick in one of the kit bags (a 1/8 bit of wood dowel) is cut into four short pieces. The dry nozzles are then glued with the dowel nestled into the seam of the nozzle on the inside of the nozzle, and allowed to dry. Using the drill bit, carefully drill a single hole centered in each SRB aft bulkhead "half moon" near the wall of the main T60 body tube. The bit of dowel extending out the front of the nozzle then gets inserted into this hole with some wood glue to install the nozzles in the SRB's, with the seam facing the main T60 tube, canting the nozzles straight out from the body of the booster stage. Then everything gets painted black inside and out around the nozzles and in the nozzles themselves.

Next, we'll detail the capsule. More later! OL JR

We're almost done... just need to superdetail the capsule and wrap things up.

When the clear has thoroughly dried on the paper transition, glue it over the Interstage Can on the front of the first stage booster rocket. Clock the seam of the roll pattern to the launch lug (which hopefully is clocked near the engine hook, all on the "back side" of the rocket! )

The capsule is supposed to have four small "vernier" rockets glued onto the bottoms of the hemicylindrical fairings on the side of the capsule. These serve as both attitude control rockets and retro rockets. Dr. Zooch thoughtfully includes four TEENY-TINY little wooden rocket nozzles, no doubt carved on miniature lathes by ants with good eyesight!!! These are in a kit bag in the box, probably the same one the little bit of 1/8 dowel for the SRB nozzles was in.

These nozzles need their bases trimmed slightly so that they cant outward from the side of the capsule. Once removed from the kitbag, they can be trimmed down slightly on one side of their base by holding them securely against the work mat while trimming them with a sharp hobby knife. I took a piece of masking tape and rolled it backwards into a loop sticky side out to attach the tiny nozzles to for painting once they were trimmed. I then painted them Testor's flat black with a paintbrush and set them aside to dry.

For installation, the easiest and quickest way I found was to invert my empty soda-cup from supper, cut a quick-n-dirty hole in the bottom with my hobby knife roughly the size of the capsule, and stick the capsule in it to hold the nosecone securely inverted for nozzle installation. The nozzles were then carefully pulled off the tape with tweezers, held in position on the fairings, and a careful dab of CA applied to wick in between the two parts to secure the bond. Then the whole thing was set aside to fully cure.

The parachute goes together in the standard manner-- tape dots on the corners, draw the "poly-coated Popielium" into three equal length parts, cut them, and tie them securely to adjoining tape dots, and one across the center, draw them up evenly, and install the shrouds thru the snap swivel ring, pass the swivel through the shroud loops, pull taut, check the evenness, then apply a drop of white glue to secure the loops to the swivel so they don't slip.

The screw eye is threaded into the base of the capsule/T55 mini-tube balsa block, unscrewed, dipped in glue, and screwed back into the hole securely.

A piece of elastic is tied onto the loop on the end of the kevlar shock cord leader (I installed with the upperstage motor mount, but the instructions call for it to be installed using a trifold "teabag" paper shock mount) and the other end of the elastic is tied to the screw eye at the capsule base, ready for the chute.

Another first for Dr. Zooch kits, is the inclusion of decals (actually the Saturn V has some decals too). These are stickers, and look pretty darn good, despite Wes's disdain of decals and the slight difficulties working with stickers... The beta instructions I got didn't have a decal placement guide, and the box pic only took me so far, so a quick email to the Doc got me an emailed decal guide that I printed off and used to install the decals. They make the kit pop a bit! The decals aren't all used-- there have been some changes and "difficulties" as Dr. Zooch put it, in getting the decals done and approved. They DO look nice though!

That about sums it up. I still have to get this bird in the air as part of the flight test regime and report back to Dr. Zooch, BUT the weather has conspired against me consistently since I finished it! It was raining quite a bit in Indiana, to the point that the corn had topped 8 feet and the beans were knee high by the time I left, with the ground still wet, so I deferred flying til I returned to Texas, only to find that it has been raining nearly every day here since I got back, and it's thundering heavily outside again right now! Soon as I can get a weather break, I'll send her upstairs.

I did manage to get some glamour shots while in Indiana, but I'll have to look them up and download them from my email before I can upload them here... Those'll be put on here later on tonight or tomorrow.

This should be a REALLY neat kit for those who like novel building practices, two stagers, and really cool looking rockets. This rocket scores high on all three! Be sure to check out Dr. Zooch Rockets to get yours when he starts making them available!

Hope you enjoyed the thread! OL JR

Glamour pics, as promised...

Enjoy! OL JR

A few more... OL JR

And the last few... Enjoy! OL JR

That's a fantastic build thread, Jeff!

And the rocket looks great. I have one or two of the Estes Vanguard Eagle kits that came out with all of their other X-Prize kits, and Dr. Zooch's kit looks better by far, in addition to being a two-stager.

Great job!

JRThro said:

That's a fantastic build thread, Jeff!

And the rocket looks great. I have one or two of the Estes Vanguard Eagle kits that came out with all of their other X-Prize kits, and Dr. Zooch's kit looks better by far, in addition to being a two-stager.

Great job!

Click to expand...

Thanks! I appreciate it!

That's exactly what Dr. Zooch told the man behind the Vanguard Eagle at one of the X-Prize functions he attended-- "I can do that WAY better than Estes did!" (paraphrased). The fellow gave him the opportunity and you can see the results! This kit looks REALLY nice and it's an interesting and educational build. It's a little challenging, but it's certainly not a skill level five build by any means! It should be a great flyer, if the weather will ever cooperate. I still need to let Wes knows how it flies. I'm sure he's flown it dozens of times in development-- he often 'overbuilds' kits and 'replicates' common mistakes that are often made in kit building to test and see how the final result will actually fly-- if it flies "messed up" it'll fly GREAT when built "right" (so to speak!) LOL He also experiments with the fin sizing and stuff, making them smaller and smaller to see just where the line actually is-- again, so once you know "how small is TOO small", you know EXACTLY how much margin you have built into the kit.

I appreciate that Wes takes as much time and effort as he does in actually building and researching the limits of his kits, and seeks how to make them better or fix "the little things". Some kit makers are probably content to just design the thing in RockSim or whatever computer simulation program they're working with, tweak it a bit in the computer, build a flight model or two to verify it's stable, buildable, and the engine sims in the computer are providing accurate choices, and then crank them out and sell them. Wes takes it to the next level, as I'm sure a few other kit makers do, as well, in fairness, but when you buy a Dr. Zooch kit, I can tell you that it's been tested, A LOT!

Hopefully the weather will dry up a bit soon so I can get this bird up and tested and report back to Wes and on here...

Later! OL JR

I remember this rocket! Estes had put out a kit of it like 10 years ago or so. I had picked it up to buy it but then I changed my mind. I somewhat regret that now.

Jordan_RochellaSpace said:

I remember this rocket! Estes had put out a kit of it like 10 years ago or so. I had picked it up to buy it but then I changed my mind. I somewhat regret that now.

Click to expand...

Well, you should have a second chance pretty soon... not sure exactly when Dr. Zooch plans to put this one out, but if it's in beta, it can't be too long...

At any rate, you'll get a nicer end product with the Dr. Zooch kit than the Estes kit I'm sure...

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

Thanks! I appreciate it!

That's exactly what Dr. Zooch told the man behind the Vanguard Eagle at one of the X-Prize functions he attended-- "I can do that WAY better than Estes did!" (paraphrased). The fellow gave him the opportunity and you can see the results! This kit looks REALLY nice and it's an interesting and educational build. It's a little challenging, but it's certainly not a skill level five build by any means! It should be a great flyer, if the weather will ever cooperate. I still need to let Wes knows how it flies. I'm sure he's flown it dozens of times in development-- he often 'overbuilds' kits and 'replicates' common mistakes that are often made in kit building to test and see how the final result will actually fly-- if it flies "messed up" it'll fly GREAT when built "right" (so to speak!) LOL He also experiments with the fin sizing and stuff, making them smaller and smaller to see just where the line actually is-- again, so once you know "how small is TOO small", you know EXACTLY how much margin you have built into the kit.

I appreciate that Wes takes as much time and effort as he does in actually building and researching the limits of his kits, and seeks how to make them better or fix "the little things". Some kit makers are probably content to just design the thing in RockSim or whatever computer simulation program they're working with, tweak it a bit in the computer, build a flight model or two to verify it's stable, buildable, and the engine sims in the computer are providing accurate choices, and then crank them out and sell them. Wes takes it to the next level, as I'm sure a few other kit makers do, as well, in fairness, but when you buy a Dr. Zooch kit, I can tell you that it's been tested, A LOT!

Hopefully the weather will dry up a bit soon so I can get this bird up and tested and report back to Wes and on here...

Later! OL JR

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I remember reading that, the thread is the vendors section IIRC for anyone intrested. Wes wouldn't stop talking about plastic parts made in Red China.... LOL. And I bet it sucks for Him when he finds out he crossed the line of the fins being "Too Small" :roll:

That looks awesome by the way!

While i'm sure Dr. Zootch's kits are very good, for me, they're not usable for what I want to do with hobby rocketry.

Estes dropped all of their X-prize kits a few years back. Then back in 2006 I was at X-Prize Cup and I met the fellow who designed the Vanguard Eagle. He showed me the Estes kit and asked what I thought of it... I told him I thought it was cheap Chinese junk produced in a hurry by the toy company once know as Estes. He asked if I could do it better and I said "yes." He asked how and I told him the kit should be a two stager. Apparently, Estes had not taken the time to design it as such because they were in a hurry to glom-on to the publicity surronding X-Prize. Sometime later, I was contacted by Vanguard Space to re-do the Eagle the Dr. Zooch way... which is what you see here. Along the way I've stumbled upon every snag that could be had from the nosecone to waiting for X-Prize to give permission to use their logo (which they never did- so it is not in the kit). Now we have the final delay... waiting for the Texas floods to drain away so Luke can test launch his build. He is under orders from me to "Just shoot the #&%!ing thing" if he loses it, I'll send him a new one.

Everybody now... shout at Luke... "Light this candle"

Light the frakkin' candle, Luke!

Dr.Zooch said:

Now we have the final delay... waiting for the Texas floods to drain away so Luke can test launch his build. He is under orders from me to "Just shoot the #&%!ing thing" if he loses it, I'll send him a new one.

Everybody now... shout at Luke... "Light this candle"

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Yea Luke Shoot it!, Blast it Off, Fire it up!, Just flip the switch baby, Press the button and let her fly, Squeeze it off the rack, Flame it up, Put the Fire in the first stage hole then Pop off the second, Cook it off on the gap stage, Match in the nozzle (Is this a Heavenly Hobbies Backdraft?), Spark that powder, Flash in the pan, Roast the Toast, Slap that baby on the bottom, Ready-Aim-Fire, light the fuse, Let ‘er rip, Lets open that two stage can of whoop a**, Fry the sky, Chuff the Magic Dragon, Flame that bird, Kick it in the a**, Punch a hole in the sky, Lit the Stick with a BIC (oops – that was another Zooch kit), Now sever it's earthly bonds, We gotta lite that DY-NO-MITE (best Good Times impression), Throw it up into the wild blue yonder!

Daddyisabar said:

Yea Luke Shoot it!, Blast it Off, Fire it up!, Just flip the switch baby, Press the button and let her fly, Squeeze it off the rack, Flame it up, Put the Fire in the first stage hole then Pop off the second, Cook it off on the gap stage, Match in the nozzle (Is this a Heavenly Hobbies Backdraft?), Spark that powder, Flash in the pan, Roast the Toast, Slap that baby on the bottom, Ready-Aim-Fire, light the fuse, Let ‘er rip, Lets open that two stage can of whoop a**, Fry the sky, Chuff the Magic Dragon, Flame that bird, Kick it in the a**, Punch a hole in the sky, Lit the Stick with a BIC (oops – that was another Zooch kit), Now sever it's earthly bonds, We gotta lite that DY-NO-MITE (best Good Times impression), Throw it up into the wild blue yonder!

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No more coffee for you!

"Chuff the Magic Dragon" :headbang:

That is the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time!

When ya' do fly this, you'll wish the second stage had a strobe on it or something. Once it drops that first stage, it really scoots. In one of the early flight tests in May of 2008 I shot it into broken clouds with bases around 2,500 feet. It punched into a cloud... and I thought it was gone. One guy on the field said he saw it on the chute come out of the side of the cloud and then go into the side of another cloud- but that was it. Three months later, I showed up at the MDRA launch and someone handed me my second stage. The word was that some guys were off hunting a high power rocket that had come down in the woods a few miles away, and while tramping through the woods they found my second stage. It was out there all summer. It's still flying that stage... in fact it flew at the July 2010 MDRA launch.

Dr.Zooch said:

"Chuff the Magic Dragon" :headbang:

That is the funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time!

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Thanks, I knew at least most of the Zoochophiles would like that, usually such utterances are not well received on this forum.

I am interested in the Alumilite nose cone durability. I had one on a Hostile Projectiles V-23 that was packed with copious amounts of plasticine nose weight which, on descent, smacked into a concrete cap on top of a brick wall. The tip broke off but the cone did not shatter, but without all that clay I always wondered if it would have held up as well. Have you slung shot an empty nosecone into something hard? Hopefully when it has a hard landing in the parking lot it won’t be shatter city and I won’t have to watch another BAR crying in the back of a minivan. As long as it is cast well – not too many thin spots- I think hand cast Alumilite will be OK for most LPR kits.

Thanks to all for all the prerelease testing, as the aforementioned kit was really blasted by the YORF Master Modelers when all the flight testing was left open to forum members after release of the kit. This Junior Modeler has flown the V-23 a dozen times but I think I’m the only one.

And what will be the retail pricing on this beauty with a handmade nosecone? Will I be able to overcome my cheapskate BAR tendencies, my addiction to 40%-50% off retail on all LPR, and truly become a full fledged Zoochinator? At least it will look real fine next to the Saturn IB, Sputnik and R7 Luna on my tiny rocket shelf.

If flown and "smacked into a concrete cap on top of a brick wall" we cannot guarantee results as our testing has not included either brick walls or concrete anything. So far we have only flown into soft billowie clouds and landed on nice green grass. If, however, you wish to buy a kit, build it and test it on a brick wall or assorted concrete structures, we will be happy to sell you kits to use until you get the results needed to answer your question to your satisfaction. The brick walls and concrete you will have to supply yourself because the shipping costs prohibit us from selling them and our UPS guy would complain.

Dr.Zooch said:

If flown and "smacked into a concrete cap on top of a brick wall" we cannot guarantee results as our testing has not included either brick walls or concrete anything. So far we have only flown into soft billowie clouds and landed on nice green grass. If, however, you wish to buy a kit, build it and test it on a brick wall or assorted concrete structures, we will be happy to sell you kits to use until you get the results needed to answer your question to your satisfaction. The brick walls and concrete you will have to supply yourself because the shipping costs prohibit us from selling them and our UPS guy would complain.

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Cool, as soon as I get my Level 3 I think I will then be qualified to try to bullet proof one just like the Sport Rocketry article with the Estes Guardian. Ditch the trash bag chute for some thin mill dry cleaner bags, weight it up with reinforcements, put in some C motors and let the guaranteed awsomeness begin. :bangbang::shock::eyepop::bangpan:

We cannot endorse such alterations... however, we do hope you'll post video.