e45 / f55 motor details?

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dhbarr

dhbarr

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I'm trying to find out everything I can about these extinct AT 18mm motors.

Propellant? OAL? Same basic design as d21, or something else?

( If anyone has some to send dead or alive, I could probably arrange something ).

I'm guessing they both used the equivalent of the WT propellant, and they were essentially the d10 only longer....

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?132769-Estes-E2X-ON-STEROIDS&p=1561127#post1561127
E45 is 4 1/8"
F55 is 5 3/8"

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...ant-Us-Going-Supersonic&p=1453765#post1453765
The AT 18 mm x 138 mm SU F55-4,8,12 Blue Thunder motor is listed as a 60%F = 64 N/s with a 0.9 second burn time
 
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D21-4,7,10 Aerotech 70 1.0 21.0 100.0 Blue Thunder
E25-4,7,10 Aerotech 70 0.9 25.0 55.0
E45-4,8,12 Aerotech 105 0.9 45.0 100.0 Blue Thunder
F55-4,8,12 Aerotech 138 0.9 53.4 60.0 Blue Thunder

So it looks like the e25 was probably WT, sharing lineage w/d10; e45 & f55 were longer d21's.

Curiosity partially satisfied ; if anyone wants to measure the nozzle on one that'd be cool, but I can work the math myself when I pick this thought up again next time.

Still interested in cadaver cases, though :)
 
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Someone send me a PM reminder... I have some F55s at home I can check out. Maybe E's can't remember.
 
Well nifty:
Particularly:

Couldn't dig up the same or similar for the f55, but I certainly learned a lot about the c12t and e27t
... so for one brief period in the late 80's and early 90's, 18mm fliers had a stunning array of reloadable and disposable options from around a b6 up to an e45. Wish I'd been there :)

The c12 would be particularly nice for a short heavy rocket with a narrow tail on a small field or a windy day. Ah well....
 
The F55 was certified by TRA not NAR.

The reloadable 18mm B & C motors did not sell very well and were discontinued less than a year after they were released.
 
Initiator001 said:
The F55 was certified by TRA not NAR.

The reloadable 18mm B & C motors did not sell very well and were discontinued less than a year after they were released.
Click to expand...

Yup, can't find the relevant TRA docs on ATs or TRAs websites, though.

I understand the same guys who failed to develop an 18mm g were responsible for killing everything but the D's we have left. :-D

I kid, word is almost no hobby shop ever made a second order. It's just too bad since now I could buy singles no-haz via e-commerce. Materials have come a long way, too.
 
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So... does anyone have a bead on the TRA paperwork for the f55? Assembly instructions?

These would likely have to come from someone's personal collection as neither the web nor usenet seem to have them.
 
dhbarr said:
So... does anyone have a bead on the TRA paperwork for the f55? Assembly instructions?

These would likely have to come from someone's personal collection as neither the web nor usenet seem to have them.
Click to expand...

I don't have any, but the E45 and F55 were single use motors. Aerotech never announced any longer cases for 18mm reloads. Aerotech has produced a lot of interesting motors during their 35 year existence that that I would have liked to have tried over the years.
 
mwtoelle said:
I don't have any, but the E45 and F55 were single use motors. Aerotech never announced any longer cases for 18mm reloads. Aerotech has produced a lot of interesting motors during their 35 year existence that that I would have liked to have tried over the years.
Click to expand...

Yup, I wasn't thinking straight.

Anyone to speculate on the grain configuration, nozzle size?
 
dhbarr said:
Yup, I wasn't thinking straight.

Anyone to speculate on the grain configuration, nozzle size?
Click to expand...

The E45 & F55 both used single grain Blue Thunder propellant with a C-slot core.
Phenolic casing with bonded molded nozzle.

Total impulse: E45 40 n-sec, F55 50 N-sec

We couldn't do a 'G' motor with the phenolic 18mm casing, it would blister and fail. It barely lasted for the F55.
 
Initiator001 said:
The E45 & F55 both used single grain Blue Thunder propellant with a C-slot core.
Phenolic casing with bonded molded nozzle.

Total impulse: E45 40 n-sec, F55 50 N-sec

We couldn't do a 'G' motor with the phenolic 18mm casing, it would blister and fail. It barely lasted for the F55.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for coming out to answer! It is very much appreciated.

It's clear that to do an 18mm G some metal would have to be involved. Fun to think about.
 
I have been digging through my files to find more information on the F55 motor.

I found a sales sheet dated 12/17/90 which gives some information on the F55:

F55 (-4, -8, -12)

Dimensions: .69" x 5.438"

Peak Thrust (lbs.): 20.75

Thrust Duration: .92 sec.

Propellant Mass: 24.0g

Initial Mass: 45.7g

I am still looking for a copy of the thrust curve.
 
Initiator001 said:
I have been digging through my files to find more information on the F55 motor.

I found a sales sheet dated 12/17/90 which gives some information on the F55:

F55 (-4, -8, -12)

Dimensions: .69" x 5.438"

Peak Thrust (lbs.): 20.75

Thrust Duration: .92 sec.

Propellant Mass: 24.0g

Initial Mass: 45.7g

I am still looking for a copy of the thrust curve.
Click to expand...

Awesome, initial mass and peak were two of the missing pieces! Burnout mass should be fairly straightforward to calculate since the length is known.
 
Courtesy of Ken Good, passed on to me by Darrin Plumer
Code: 
; Aerotech F55 Data from data insert
F55 18 138 4-8-12 0.024000 0.034650 AT
0.025 88.846
0.05 89.295
0.075 89.744
0.1 89.744
0.15 90.641
0.2 91.090
0.25 91.987
0.3 91.090
0.35 90.192
0.4 89.295
0.45 85.256
0.5 76.282
0.525 67.308
0.55 53.846
0.575 40.385
0.6 26.923
0.625 22.436
0.65 17.949
0.675 13.462
0.7 9.423
0.725 8.974
0.75 7.179
0.775 5.385
0.8 4.487
0.825 4.038
0.85 2.692
0.875 0.897
0.9 0.000
;
 
Old thread indeed. I was recently looking for info on the F55. I have one in my collection and plan to fly it next weekend in a CF/fiberglass minimum diameter model (under construction here). The first 2/3 of the burn is where it all happens. The appendage on the front of the motor is where I added 7s delay to make it an F55-15.F55mindia.jpg
 
I think they had an E reload for the 18mm case also.

I digress... I can get some measurements if you need them, @dhbarr - but not this week. I have zero desire to go into my shop this week with the 100F heat wave this week.
 
dhbarr said:
Awesome, initial mass and peak were two of the missing pieces! Burnout mass should be fairly straightforward to calculate since the length is known.
Click to expand...
You can figure on 45.7g-24.0g = 21.7g for propellant loss, then delay and ejection.. guesstimate another 3-4g and you end up around 18g. If I get mine back I can weigh it.
 
mrwalsh85 said:
I think they had an E reload for the 18mm case also.

I digress... I can get some measurements if you need them, @dhbarr - but not this week. I have zero desire to go into my shop this week with the 100F heat wave this week.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was a E27. Barely an 'E' motor at 22N-sec total impulse.
 
Perfect opportunity for a killer two stage flight there. Light 'em up, they're not getting any better with age.
 

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