grouch
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Awesome job!!
Upscale Onyx
- Thread starter Nathan
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Nathan
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After 4 hours of wet sanding with 1000 grit and 2000 grit. I haven't sanded the nose cone yet so this picture shows the difference before and after wet sanding. Wet sanding the clear coat makes it perfectly smooth, and then polishing will bring out the high gloss in the next step.
Next step, wet sand the nose cone and then start polishing.
Next step, wet sand the nose cone and then start polishing.
After 4 hours of wet sanding with 1000 grit and 2000 grit. I haven't sanded the nose cone yet so this picture shows the difference before and after wet sanding. Wet sanding the clear coat makes it perfectly smooth, and then polishing will bring out the high gloss in the next step.
Next step, wet sand the nose cone and then start polishing.
That is beautiful and you have far more patience than I ever could with painting...
Or I, or most anyone.
I often wet-sand but have never tried polish-and-wax for the final finishing steps. One day I need to try it (though I shan't be doing four hours of it, nosirree).
Nathan, I'm sure you've said it before but exactly which polish and wax do you use? I see the Meguiar's in your picture there but don't know what the whole sequence is.
Nathan
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I do polishing in two steps. First polishing with rubbing compound and then with finishing polish. I have tried various polishes but these are the ones that I currently like . . .
For wax I usually use Blackfire Wet Diamond, which is actually a synthetic paint sealant and not a wax. It looks as good as any car wax and lasts a lot longer.
Thanks.
Hi Nate.
When I spray on my clearcoat (HLVP Gun and automotive clear 4 to 1 hardener) it comes with orange peel but if I spray heavy enough it still looks like shiny glass just orange peel. It's when I try to buff out the orange peel with wet sand 1000 then 2000 then swirl remover then polish that it just doesn't seem as glassy, however it feels very smooth where the orange peal does not. Once I'm finished I can see reflection well and smooth just doesn't have hat wet glassy look that it had before.
Not sure if I'm explaining it , but it's almost like I'm trading the smoothness for dullness. Could be my product (turtle medium swirl remover - then Meguires Polish) or could be my polish stage needs to be longer. Any thoughts on that or can you get more specific on what you are looking for for each stage to finish...beside patience
.
Also do you use an applicator - a polishing rag or a buffer.
I am doing the swirl remover with a buffer and the polish with the same buffer - maybe I need a second applicator or different buffing head
When I spray on my clearcoat (HLVP Gun and automotive clear 4 to 1 hardener) it comes with orange peel but if I spray heavy enough it still looks like shiny glass just orange peel. It's when I try to buff out the orange peel with wet sand 1000 then 2000 then swirl remover then polish that it just doesn't seem as glassy, however it feels very smooth where the orange peal does not. Once I'm finished I can see reflection well and smooth just doesn't have hat wet glassy look that it had before.
Not sure if I'm explaining it , but it's almost like I'm trading the smoothness for dullness. Could be my product (turtle medium swirl remover - then Meguires Polish) or could be my polish stage needs to be longer. Any thoughts on that or can you get more specific on what you are looking for for each stage to finish...beside patience
.Also do you use an applicator - a polishing rag or a buffer.
I am doing the swirl remover with a buffer and the polish with the same buffer - maybe I need a second applicator or different buffing head
Nathan
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Hi Nate.
When I spray on my clearcoat (HLVP Gun and automotive clear 4 to 1 hardener) it comes with orange peel but if I spray heavy enough it still looks like shiny glass just orange peel. It's when I try to buff out the orange peel with wet sand 1000 then 2000 then swirl remover then polish that it just doesn't seem as glassy, however it feels very smooth where the orange peal does not. Once I'm finished I can see reflection well and smooth just doesn't have hat wet glassy look that it had before.
Not sure if I'm explaining it , but it's almost like I'm trading the smoothness for dullness. Could be my product (turtle medium swirl remover - then Meguires Polish) or could be my polish stage needs to be longer. Any thoughts on that or can you get more specific on what you are looking for for each stage to finish...beside patience
Also do you use an applicator - a polishing rag or a buffer.
I am doing the swirl remover with a buffer and the polish with the same buffer - maybe I need a second applicator or different buffing head
Hi Nick, it sounds like you're probably doing a good job with the wet sanding and the problem is with the polishing step.
First about wet sanding: When you begin wet sanding the painted surface is shiny but has some amount of bumpy texture (orange peel). As you wet sand, the there will be tiny shiny spots remaining which are the low spots in the orange peel texture that haven't been sanded out yet. The trick is to sand with 1000 grit until you get most of the shiny spots. Then switch to 2000 grit and keep sanding lightly until all of the shiny spots are gone. At that point the surface is perfectly smooth.
Then you're ready to start polishing. I do it it two steps, first rubbing compound then finishing polish, but the process is the same for both steps: For large rockets I start with a dual action buffer (Porter Cable 7424) with foam pads. Be sure to polish with foam pads, NOT with a wool buffing pad. I use Lake Country CCS foam pads. After I get it about half way polished I switch to hand polishing with a small foam polishing pad. Polishing pads come in various grades with the firmer pads being used for more aggressive polishing, softer ones being used for finishing polishing, and the softest ones being used for applying wax. So be sure to use the right type of pad for what you are trying to do. Each of the polishes (compound and finishing polish) both require several passes with the machine and several more passes of hand polishing. After each each polishing, wipe it clean with a dry cloth and inspect your progress. Keep polishing with the rubbing compound until it is scratch-free, glossy, and looks almost perfect; if you switch to finishing polish too soon you will never get a glass like finish. The finishing polish will make it shinier but it won't take out 2000 grit scratch marks so if you can see any scratch marks at all then you are not done with the rubbing compound yet. I can't say exactly how many iterations of polishing it will take but typically I polish with rubbing compound by machine 2 or 3 times, then rubbing compound by hand another 3 or 4 times, then finishing polish by machine 2 or 3 times, then finishing polish by hand another 3 or 4 times. Wish I could be more precise but it varies, sometimes it starts looking good quickly and sometimes it just takes more polishing.
As a general rule, if your arm doesn't hurt then you're not done yet.
Thanks Nathan;
Sounds like I'm not being patient enough with each step.
Yes - the wet sand I watch closely for those spots - which are the waves on the surface of the clearcoat. The 1000 takes most of those spots out and then the 2000 to finish up with that. The trick to that step is the stickers make it a little difficult to get all the spots out close to the stickers but on the main body portion of the two fairly easy to get all the spots out.
I went out and purchased better applicators for the swirl remover stage so it sounds like that stage I'm really lacking on. I still see scratch marks from the 2000 or 1000. I think I'm moving on to the final stage too quickly. Thanks for clarifying and yes my arm does hurt at the end of the polish stage
but maybe I'm not able to polish out the other scratches.Thanks again for the help back to the build thread
Nathan
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FINISHED! This time I did all the polishing with the machine (Porter Cable 7424) instead of by hand and that worked pretty well. Total time spent polishing was about 2 hours. After that was a coat of Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant and it's done . . .
grouch
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Unreal. That's gotta be the coolest Onyx ever.
There's only one little problem with a nice paint job. If the rocket is a flier, it's going to get dinged up. If there is a mishap, it'll get "really" dinged up. I've done some nice finishes on smaller projects and they seem to be the ones that
get messed up the worse. One thing I've noticed with a high gloss job is if they are out of sight and if one can't see the apogee, sunlight will "flash" off the glossy finish. One might not be able to resolve the rocket visually but can see the
flashes way up there. Kinda nice. I'm sure Nathans Onyx will be a "flasher" and it has a metal tip that the nosecone can land on. My advice is to do dual deploy and the biggest main chute you can get away with for softer landings.
You also might want to avoid windy days as a large chute will drag that fine paint job all over the ground and it will likely get scratched all to heck. Take lotsa pictures before flying for memory purposes. Remember, the rocket is only
going to look this good before you fly it. Kurt
get messed up the worse. One thing I've noticed with a high gloss job is if they are out of sight and if one can't see the apogee, sunlight will "flash" off the glossy finish. One might not be able to resolve the rocket visually but can see the
flashes way up there. Kinda nice. I'm sure Nathans Onyx will be a "flasher" and it has a metal tip that the nosecone can land on. My advice is to do dual deploy and the biggest main chute you can get away with for softer landings.
You also might want to avoid windy days as a large chute will drag that fine paint job all over the ground and it will likely get scratched all to heck. Take lotsa pictures before flying for memory purposes. Remember, the rocket is only
going to look this good before you fly it. Kurt
Nathan
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Thanks, might have been closer to 3 hours, I wasn't really keeping track. These are the polishing pads that I use with my 7424 for polishing. I used a white pad for both rubbing compound and finishing polish but for rubbing compound or other heavy cut polish it would actually work better with a firmer pad, like the orange pad.
https://www.autogeek.net/lc-ccs-6inch-pads.html
The reason it took me so long to get around to finishing this was because I took advantage of the recent warm weather to also repaint my Frenzy XL. So I'll be sanding and polishing that soon too. Now I'm done painting until next spring when it warms up enough to paint in the garage.
I think Nathan enjoys the challenges of painting and finishing his rockets to perfection and they are definitely one of a kind, but you are right about being flyers Kurt... they do get dinged up. I had a few nice rockets that came in ballistic and after that I told myself never again. I'll go as far as shooting a nice clear, but I won't bother with wet sanding and polishing the finish off. I don't even bother masking my paint jobs...I just do blends. Its faster and they give off a cool color. The only exception is if I'm building a scale model and I need to mask and show more detail, but flyers get the blend and clear and I'm done and over it.
BTW Nathan another beautiful paint job!!
BTW Nathan another beautiful paint job!!
Yup, I do a scale job I like to make it look nice. I've used rattle can clear lacquer with wet sanding, rubbing, polishing compound and polish and can get a pretty nice, shiny coat but man the work. I threw together some tracking test mules with colored
tubes and no paint. One went in ballistic and just had to dig it out and replace the tracker to fly again. I cracked the nosecone so it had to be replaced otherwise if the sun wasn't going down and I had more time to be careful, it too would have
flown again. (Oh yeah, I had a plywood sled in the NC and it was turned to wood chips and the EggFinder had components fall off. I had to dispose of the Lithium battery as it had over heated. Didn't burn though.) Kurt
Nathan
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Man don't you hate when that happens! Underdose the ejection charge? I've been very guilty of that lately! Lost my super glossy ASP WAC Corporal with the 38mm motor. Still have a yellow one but not as pretty. Gotta build it again and see if I can
get the paint shinier! Kurt
Nathan
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I flew it on a CTI H400 Vmax and it was a victim of the CTI Vmax no ejection charge problem. Came in ballistic but the Jolly Logic Chute Release actually survived the crash. Then a couple months later I lost that Chute Release when a rocket came down in the swamp.
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Swissyhawk
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Is this rocket going to fly at Battle Park this weekend?
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theres a lot that goes into getting clear to lay like glass and even the pros don't get it glass smooth every time. if youre getting OP even on heavy coats it could be either the pressure at the gun is too low or the gun may not be atomizing the paint well enough.
one thing I do that helps is over reduce my clear 10%.
Yes! Inquiring minds want to know! We also want to see it, even if it doesn't fly!
Nathan
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I'll bring it to Battlepark but I won't be flying it yet. I will be flying my 10 ft Formula 150 for the first time, with a 6 grain 54 mm K820 Blue Streak. Haven't decided yet which day I'll be there.
Nathan
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Yeah, if you're getting orange peel texture on clear coat try either reducing air pressure, or increasing paint volume, or thinning the clear a little. Helps to experiment to get the right combination. Holding the gun a little closer can help too but that can be risky if you're not careful.
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That finish boggles the mind. Absolute perfection -- that would put a lot of custom show cars to shame.
It's all about taking your time and following a proven method that works, at least I would assume so... Nathan by far does the nicest I've seen.
o1d_dude
'I battle gravity'
As usual, a beautiful finish, Nathan.
Think I'll just leave my semi-abandoned build of a LOC Onyx primer gray. My R&R record (Repairing and Repainting) is sketchy at best.
Think I'll just leave my semi-abandoned build of a LOC Onyx primer gray. My R&R record (Repairing and Repainting) is sketchy at best.
FINISHED! This time I did all the polishing with the machine (Porter Cable 7424) instead of by hand and that worked pretty well. Total time spent polishing was about 2 hours. After that was a coat of Blackfire Wet Diamond sealant and it's done . . .
I’m going to ask an obvious question, basically to validate my desire for one.... not rattle can but air brush?
Nathan
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That was Dupicolor Paint Shop lacquer sprayed using a HPLV paint gun. Then several coats of clear lacquer, wet sanded and polished.
That rocket has since been damaged and repaired and repainted. It is now single color, burnt orange metallic. I am just now finishing the final steps and will post some new pics here soon.
