Why Is Everything Wrong With Bathroom Construction.

dixontj93060 said:

+1. Now tell me about "green" board. That is what was installed in my bathrooms when the house was built.

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Green board drywall is moisture resistant.

rharshberger said:

Green board drywall is moisture resistant.

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I know that. How is it done? Additive? Change in process?

dixontj93060 said:

I know that. How is it done? Additive? Change in process?

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Not entirely sure, I believe its an additive to the paper. The core seems the same as regular drywall. I just re-worked a bathroom a couple of months ago, using both types of drywall and other than the paper facings they seemed identical.

Green board provides a little bit of mold resistance, and that's about it. It really doesn't help with waterproofing at all. It's mostly been replaced with the various cement based wall boards.

@TopRaman

Just wanted to say that I empathize. Did some work in the kitchen recently, and the subfloor was 20 year old pressboard (sawdust and glue) that had so much water damage that I could tear it up by hand.

Yesterday I went to do some relatively minor work on one bathroom. Tub wasn't draining properly. Plunging brought up some grit, chemical solutions didn't improve things. Wound up tearing out the ceiling below, tearing out the existing drain line, and having several WTF moments. As near as I can figure out, sometime AFTER redoing the bathroom, but BEFORE installing the current drain, someone put a bunch of crap down the drain in the tub. This included a rather large spring that turned out to be the main culprit, plus what looks like lining from a previous tub?

Seriously - the spring was wedged where the new PVC pipe joins the old cast iron. I can't figure out how whoever did this got it down there. I really don't like how it's plumbed, but settled for replacing the entire PVC section. Twice. Plus some patching. Because third time's a charm. After four trips to the hardware store - three to the local and one to a big-box after the local closed - and correcting a reversed washer which caused the final leak (because I was tired - a "quick" job wound up going over six hours) the tub drains properly, and there are no leaks.

Not thrilled with the job I did - I'm a perfectionist, and it's not perfect. It is, however, functional, and that's going to have to be good enough for now.

Really cool zebra effect - white pipe with black fittings.

I'm wishing I could meet the person that did all of this, so I can punch him in the face. This is probably the same person who nailed the light fixtures up rather than using the supplied screw holes for mounting to the electrical box. This is the same person who slathered the drain fixture with silicon caulk (which I had to scrape off) rather than actually figure out how to install the drain correctly. This is the same person who vented the downstairs bathroom to the garage rather than to the outside of the house. This is probably the same person who split a 240v breaker and ran it as two 120v lines instead (still haven't tracked it all down). This is probably the same person who put the refrigerator, dishwasher, and everything else in the kitchen on the same breaker. This may even be the same person who put up paneling over the sheetrock in the basement. Badly. The same person who couldn't be bothered to actually center the light fixtures for the bathrooms on the ceilings.

But, my house is structurally sound. It's just the "improvements" that are problematic.

Pounding nails while in high school and college was probably one of the best things I ever did for myself. There are very few home repairs that I am unwilling to tackle - plumbing, wiring, roofing, etc. Unfortunately, like most skills, if they are not exercised regularly they get rusty. Which is why whenever I do plumbing after a long hiatus it usually takes me a few tries to get it right.

Best of luck with your efforts to repair.

Do a Google search for "gypsum wall board" and you will find tons of information, including blogs with comments from tradesmen.

https://www.usg.com/content/usgcom/en/products-solutions/products/wallboard.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drywall

Pat_B said:

Drywall ends up being more stable than a lot of other materials once it's properly painted. It should be much cheaper than plywood and gives a much nicer surface. You mentioned 1/2" plywood for subflooring. That's too thin. 3/4" tongue and groove is typically used for subfloor material- glue and screwed.

Batted insulation is also much cheaper than spray insulations. The spray stuff is great for getting into tight areas, but is more expensive for more extensive usage.

I've used this small-scale spray gun before with excellent results. https://www.menards.com/main/paint/...435969130-c-7937.htm?tid=-4537819226629187923

In fact, the cans that attach to the spray gun go a really long way. I think I used two cans on a 600 square foot garage I built for sealing the corners and other various areas.

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The 1/2" stuff should be fine, as it was all construction scrap, so essentially new, and it is replaceing a mix of 3/8" veneer and particle board that had mostly rotted away. All the sections are secured to the joists and supports with Liquid Nails Subfloor and Deck Construction adheasive, of which i likely use too much. The joints of that join with be glass taped and then foamed. After I had the entire subfloor down, I used 6oz. fiberglass cloth on the area around the toilet and sink that would see the most use using about a half gallon of Titebond II thinned slightly to bond it, as at the time I was in a hurry and had'nt enough epoxy to so a proper glassing to that area. I used fiberglass wall repair tape on the entirety of the subfloor, being careful to overlap each strip, then put a few diagonal bands interweaved here and there. When I laid the main section of the 3/4" topfloor onto the subfloor, I bonded the two with an entire can of the 3X Touch & Foam Max Fill, which is why all the FG wall repair tape went between the two layers, to provide flow channels for the foam, so as to not end up with a layer of uncured foam trapped between my flooring and oozing out the seam at a later date. As soon as I dropped the 3/4" onto the subfloor, I began screwing it down using marks on the wall and a yardstick as a guide to make sure my screws were going through the subfloor and into the new joists. Was it the ideal solution? I doubt it, but it was what I cam up with at the time given my limited resources and experience. I can say this much, you can jump up and down on it and not detect any weakness or give. The next two sections of 3/4" were applied in the same manner, leaving only the area where the closet used to be that will not see any real foot traffic after I build shelves there. I used the FG wall repair tape there already, but bonded the topfloor with just the Subfloor and Deck adhesive. I had to place a few cross members between the joists anyhow to make the sections I had available of subfloor have mating surfaces, so that 1/2" stuff is not resting solely on the joists, but the crossmembers as well, and they will get foamed too in the basement cleanup phase.
I'm ordering the "Foam n seal" brand foam dispensing gun from Amazon when I can, as it gets great reviews and is all metal, which according to my research is important to look for do to the trigger sometimes being stiff to operate if the gun has be left to sit.
It is too cold and humid today to get much that needs to be done done, so I'm trying to rest a little as my entire body is incredibly sore from cleaning up yesterdays messes and my job site in general. I also had to rip plywood for the top of the shower, and that particular wood came from an incredibly nice shipping pallet I got for free in front of a flooring business. The legs of the pallet were secured with construstion adhesive and too many staple nails to remove, but I only need the inbetween dimensions anyhow, so I cut those free then sized them accordingly. At the edge, there was a one inch section of the plywood that had been broken when someone had tried to see if you could pry the support legs away to use the nice sheet, and this revealed that there waas a piece of fiberglass thread in the plywood. It was obviosly supposed to be there, but I got a kick out of it none the less, as I was going to fiberglass the plywood. It will likely be just fine to simlpy prime and paintas it is incredibly dense and appears to be chemically treat in some fashion. It cut really clean too, and though I managed to fudge the fit in a couple spots by nearly a centimeter, no one will ever see that gap, as I have to tape and join it to the cieling anyhow, and I'm going to make some molding that will go all the way around the entire edge anyhow. If I score some for free somewhere that would be great too, but there is a "RE-Store" place that always has plenty of used molding and the like. I won't require much for my bathroom, so even buying new stuff is not undoable.

Anyway, none of the studs behind the shower stall were on the same planenor was the shower stall installed properly to the stud that it came into contact with, so I had to pull nails from it and in some cases drill out nails where the head popped right off when I tried to pry it free. I got the shower stall mounted with screws and construction adhesive, and to give me something of uniform depth to screw the top edge of my shower top surround to I first had to fit this piece of plywood. Luckily it was a piece the was already cut to nearly the perfect length.




I got some of the tape on the joints last night, and even covered the dicolored spots where wool filler had been used with a little primer so my first coat of primer will go on looking good, but it's like 59 degrees here today, so I'll try to get some rest and take care of some other crap that needs to get done. I feel like I got hit by a truck anyhow.

I think what you have done so far looks fine and will work for your purposes. I would advise you to remove the term "perfect" from your vocabulary when referring to construction. A little slack is actually a good thing as it allows for expansion and contraction and prevents buckling of sheet materials. One thing I forgot to mention was making sure that any crawlspace is properly vented so that soil moisture can escape, especially if your house is built over land with a high water table. If not, you have a large humidor prone to condensation, mold and mildew.

tmacklin said:

I think what you have done so far looks fine and will work for your purposes. I would advise you to remove the term "perfect" from your vocabulary when referring to construction. A little slack is actually a good thing as it allows for expansion and contraction and prevents buckling of sheet materials. One thing I forgot to mention was making sure that any crawlspace is properly vented so that soil moisture can escape, especially if your house is built over land with a high water table. If not, you have a large humidor prone to condensation, mold and mildew.

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Thanks. Point taken.

As far as the crawlspace, it is under the front half of the house, and yes, the water table is high, as a sizeable part of my property is referred to as a "Cold Water Spring" in the documentation I received with the place. The house feeds off of one of two wells that it is hooked up to, and yet a third well is on the edge of the property and feeds a neighbors house. There is also a hand dug rock lined well in the back yard which is pretty much good for nothing but attracting frogs for my Cats to bother, and the Cats like to drink from it. The basement is separated from the crawlspace by concrete, but the crawlspace portion has a three by four foot opening under the porch to vent from, and that is about it.
To do anything about what the house sits on would require a professional opinion, so maybe I'll ask around and see if anyone does free estimates and can atleast tell me whet needs to happen to make things proper.
As part of my "Rest" today, I'm finding out how much it will cost to have a propane heater installed, as my Mom has one that she only used for one year and will give me if I want it. She also has the oil, so she decided to stick with just that as for her and her house it was more economical. My place is only 650sqft., so if properly insulated, the propane unit she has may be a good option. The year before last, my oil/kerosene unit broke for good, and I had to use electrical space heaters which killed me money wise, but I could not scrounge up the funds to replace the broken one, even with a used model. Every single time I think I'm getting ahead financially, something ridiculous happens and costs me a bunch of money. Thankfully, in two more months a loan that I've been paying $220 a month on since way back in like 07-ish will be paid off, and that will atleast cover my Dog's monthly Insulin tab, so I will be at least back to where I was sorta before she got diagnosed with Diabetes. She is old, and she will likely pass soon anyhow, but hopefully it is in her sleep or something peaceful like that.


Anyhow, thanks for mentioning how important the crawlspace is, as I do really need to get that checked out by someone that knows what they are looking at as soon as possible.

I just had to know what was behind the remaining pink insulation...


Anyhow, another trip to the hardware store, some Tyvek coveralls, more "Great Stuff" and 55 gallon drum liners was the answer to that question.


It's all good though, as I found some damp moldy spots that will need cleaned and primed with mold killing primer, so I'll let it dry out for the day since the weather is perfect for it.

This is the area that was behind the sink vanity that was mounted up against the side of the tub/shower. I threw the Vanity in the bonfire, and will make legs from 3" SCH 40 PVC in conjunction with brakets on the wall side that will hold the old sink in place til' I can afford to either buy a nice used one that fits the room or make one of suitable aspect that I myself would buy it if I were to see it. That is, I'll make a professional looking one, so the bathroom won't end up looking like some kind of art project or like a hippy lives here.:wink:
I've got the room buttoned up tight for the night with an exhust fan in the window and the round floor fan at the base of the door. A sheet was hung with wooden strips I found today at the Dollhouse Factory Free Stuff Pile. I was not about to waste a bunch of tape trying to hold a sheet in a doorframe. These strips were the onlt non trash item behind the DHF today, and it was like they saw me coming and said, "This is what he needs today, grab those strips, that he may seal the room for the evening with positive ventilation."
Hopefully but the morning the airborne particulates have decreased to levels where I will feel comfortable beginning the clean up effort with just the tyvek suit, respirator, goggles and face sheild. That way I don't require any misting and the drying cycle can continue uninterupted.
I'll have absolutely no way of knowing, but I assume that this just makes sense. As the left over lightweight debris dries and lifts off, it will inevitably be carried into the exhaust fan eventually, right? In the afternoon, the fans can be shut off anyway when I turn off the power for the additional power outlet to make use of some unused existing wiring, and to add an actual proper box and wiring tie down to the wire left behind from the heater removal.
I can do my damage assessment while I do those things, but I already scraped at the wood and it is solid beneath the first tenth of an inch in the worst of it, so it is mostly mold stain and residual moisture that was held in the insulation, coupled with my sprayer to wet while I worked.
I knew I would not be getting a real shower after the removal due to site contamination, so I doffed outdoors clear of the house, having layed the 60 or so feet of garden hose out to warm in the sun while I worked, so I could essentially take a quick "Yard Shower" with hot water when I was done. I got an X-Large Tyvek Coverall, but next time will get one with a hood. I thought this one had it but in looking at them at the store I had looked at all of them then become distracted, and grabbed the wrong one. I have plenty of handkerchiefs, so I just made due, then used scrunchies and masking tape to do my wrists over my gloves. Here I screwed up, in that I just went with nitrile gloves, and as I pulled insulation, they tore on exposed nails and splinters, but it was no worries, my hands get sanded down for splinters every few days now anyhow, and sometimes I find one that I remember the occurrence of, especially if it was carbon fiber! YOUCH!!!
Physically I'm a little worse for wear, but had I not taken this step, it would reflect very poorly upon my effort. Somebody will have to work on it someday, and I hope they don't say curses upon me the way I do upon the folks that cobbled together this piece of junk.
The pink insulation was not even laid in right anyhow, and in the soggy and mold infected state it was in, it likely produced NEGATIVE R VALUES!!!:lol:

I have an infrared thermometer, that I got to use when making my hot wire foam cutters, and I will be able to use it on the walls of the bathroom this Winter to see if they are considered "Properly Insulated". Anything beats Ice on the wall above your shower in the morning, and I do wish I had some pic's and thermal data for the bathroom in the previous state to use for comparison.




I'm going to clean up the mold, then build the crap out of the insulation I have as best I can, and my friend who lets me have the insulation said there are two more bags ready thank goodness! I might need a large hot glue gun, as the mini does not really cut it at this scale. That said, hot glue is a great way to go for bonding this foam, and the bonds are rigid and sure.


In a way, the tiling of the blue insulation is a lot like the tiling of layers of foam board inside the toilet tank. This tiled insulation is starting to become a recognizable pattern, and I'm beginning to envision techniques to make it structurally resilient, such as adding wall repair FG tape before foaming. I'll be doing each panel one at a time, so I might as well have some fun with the first one or two and see if the glass tape can somehow be intertwined to prevent the panels from shifting as the foam cures.

Working with all of these materials at this scale is exactly what I needed to learn the properties of these materials, which were originally intended to work at this scale.
I'de be lying if I told you that I did not have rocketry on my mind during every step in this process.

Today started like this:




And ended like this:



The blue foam and expanding foam you see in the first "After" pic' was done during the replacement of the joists, to block the new members from the moisture coming from the sill. At the time, I thought it was left over wet from the leaking toilet and moisture damge between the sink and shower. It is apparently not.
The cross hatched blue foam in the second "After" Pic was just placed there for now to prevent animals like my cats from going into the basement.
I'm going to need some more lumber, and a few lengths of drainage pipe and some gravel.
Apparently there was something living at one time under the tub and all the insulation I had left behind was chewed up and wet, and it was wicking moisture right up from the sill like a sponge, while there is also evidence of a leaky roof, but I can't get up there til' I rebuild the sill and wall. I'm a little disappointed that I did not begin this project by tearing off the siding. Well, now I know. I threw some plastic up on the inside and outside in case it rains, but I am demolished from demolishing the soggy wood as well as I could for today, so I need to do some designing on paper and establish a list of design requirement and materials list.
Tomorrow I'll just put supports underneath everything, and that will be it til' I can afford the proper lumber to rebuild the sill that sits on the foundation. I'll also be getting about 20 cans of flex seal to seal everything heavily before and during construction, and I'll do the drainage, but that's going to require me borrowing someones Bobcat or small excavator, as there is no way I'm going to do that with a shovel in the shape I'm in.
I'm actually in rather high spirits despite the setback, because I have developed the confidence in the "Home Construction DIY" that I was lacking, which is what led to the problem being as bad as it is in the first place.
Thanks to Youtube and my Books, I'm able to take on these things now, and if I have enough time and resources, will end up with a home much nicer than I started with. When all of the urgent repairs are complete, I have no doubt I'll have the required skills to build myself an additional bedroom, so that I don't have to sleep in the living room anymore. I'm likely going to just toss my mattress and pallet bed frame anyhow since I can only sleep on the floor now. I made the mistake of sleeping in the bed the other night, thinking that since I was feeling a little better it might even be a good idea. I will not repeat that mistake again.
I did finally get an appointment at the VA, after trying for a few weeks but always being put on hold for untolerable length of time or having to leave a message which was not answered with a return call.
I'm going to make them fix me this time. If they refuse to do for me what people I know that have private health insurance have had done for their back injuries, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy into whatever the social welfare insurance is that they are always pushing. I here that is pretty crappy too, but one of my friends fell off a roof, getting the same number of discs ruptured in the same spot as me. He was hurtin' bad for a couple of years, and like me could not do any of the things he liked to do, but then he got a surgery, and he was a changed person, and told me all about it. This was like five years ago, and I told my Doc about it at the VA, and they still did nothing but send me to PT.
Sadly, my friend died of a stroke in his sleep like a year and a half ago, so I can't even go ask him exactly what they did that changed him back into a functional human being, and I forgot which of the surgeries he had, but he showed me the X-rays and was so happy about it.

Flex seal seems like an expensive way to go. Would roofing tar work (the thicker stuff used around flashing and vents)?

Looks like 4-5 2x4s are missing that should be running up and down. I don't see any form of a footer poured with cement block building up 36" or whatever is required to lay the lower 2x 6 or whatever the vertical boards would rest on. Might be just the picture, but this makes me understand why building inspectors / code enforcers exist (well not really )

I gotta say, that looks pretty bad overall. I'd consider a user trailer unless other pics make it looks better.

cavecentral said:

Flex seal seems like an expensive way to go. Would roofing tar work (the thicker stuff used around flashing and vents)?

Looks like 4-5 2x4s are missing that should be running up and down. I don't see any form of a footer poured with cement block building up 36" or whatever is required to lay the lower 2x 6 or whatever the vertical boards would rest on. Might be just the picture, but this makes me understand why building inspectors / code enforcers exist (well not really )

I gotta say, that looks pretty bad overall. I'd consider a user trailer unless other pics make it looks better.

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Thank You!

I'm totally going to make it look awesome, but I was hoping for someone to agree with me that it looks awful.
I think it looks horrible too, and like a real horrible thing to face, and that's why I'm totally going to do it up.
I promise to make some of the stuffs I've learned from you be apparent.:wink:


Oh, and flex seal is called "Flexible Sealant" at Dollar General, but I also get a discount on it at the hardware store.

I used four cans of it on the downward facing side of the 3/4"x8'x4'plywood topfloor, after using wood filler for any imperfections, so that's 32 square feet with only minimal coverage for $15. The sill is not wide and flat. I have fiberglass and foam too, plus ways to port them to make them do what I need.
I'll get my lumber, but it is going to get the crap reinforced out of it, and some wacky overbuilding antics are sure to ensue, so stay tuned...
The thing is, I already have the plywood for the walls, but in learning about wall construction, I found that there is a new kid on the block, a sort that has desirable aspects in situations like mine, and since it already exists, why not copy like a commie to save time?

This video inspires me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJZ27GskKfc

Usually the 2x4s are spaced 16" apart (center to center). This gives the 48" for applying the ply or drywall with the ends of the boards both getting 1/2 the 2x4 to nail into where they butt together. Any windows get 2x4 cross members above and below. 2 of them (so pretty much a 4x4). The pink FG insulation in rolls at 16" fits nicely in there and staples in place with a staple gun. Usually ply on outside with the siding attached. Drywall / green board inside.

That is pretty much what I remember we did building an addition on my folks' place. Roof trusses were prebuilt and attached every 16" with the plywood roof. Mostly the roof's weight and a few nails in each truss holds the roof down.

Make sure any floor boards on / near the ground are treated wood (wolmanized or however it is spelled). I think my Dad went untreated for the floor joists and that lead to replacing them all (rip of handfuls of rotten wood much like you are describing in the bathroom).

I agree- there should be studs every 16" to hold the weight of the roof up. I'd start at the foundation and work up from there. What do you presently have for a foundation?

The sole plate of your walls needs to be treated lumber and set on top of some sort of moisture barrier- 30 lb tar paper works just fine, or some of the newer rolled-foam products are also really inexpensive. Then you put your 16" wide batted insulation in between those studs. The paper part of the insulation faces toward the conditioned space (inside) and functions as a moisture barrier. You then staple house wrap on the outside of your walls followed by your plywood.

It's important to get all of this correct. The building codes have a section about braced walls with some pretty comprehensive calculations and examples to make sure your house is structurally sound. Plywood by itself satisfies the braced wall requirements if it's done correctly. Otherwise, your house could sort of fail in a parallelogram way.

They also sell slightly thicker plywood with various patterns on it that can function as structural support as well as finished siding. That stuff is typically called sheeting/siding and can save you some money and some steps. An easy to find version is called RBB which stands for reverse board and batten. It usually has 12" of a flat surface followed by an inch or so that then goes inward.

Can't quite tell from the photos, but looks like you might not have any gutters on that part of the house. I'd suggest putting some up to keep the water from splashing on the ground and ruining your sole plate. It's a good idea to keep 6" ground clearance from the bottom of you siding. That may entail making sure your foundation is at least that far above grade.

Pat_B said:

I agree- there should be studs every 16" to hold the weight of the roof up. I'd start at the foundation and work up from there. What do you presently have for a foundation?

The sole plate of your walls needs to be treated lumber and set on top of some sort of moisture barrier- 30 lb tar paper works just fine, or some of the newer rolled-foam products are also really inexpensive. Then you put your 16" wide batted insulation in between those studs. The paper part of the insulation faces toward the conditioned space (inside) and functions as a moisture barrier. You then staple house wrap on the outside of your walls followed by your plywood.

It's important to get all of this correct. The building codes have a section about braced walls with some pretty comprehensive calculations and examples to make sure your house is structurally sound. Plywood by itself satisfies the braced wall requirements if it's done correctly. Otherwise, your house could sort of fail in a parallelogram way.

They also sell slightly thicker plywood with various patterns on it that can function as structural support as well as finished siding. That stuff is typically called sheeting/siding and can save you some money and some steps. An easy to find version is called RBB which stands for reverse board and batten. It usually has 12" of a flat surface followed by an inch or so that then goes inward.

Can't quite tell from the photos, but looks like you might not have any gutters on that part of the house. I'd suggest putting some up to keep the water from splashing on the ground and ruining your sole plate. It's a good idea to keep 6" ground clearance from the bottom of you siding. That may entail making sure your foundation is at least that far above grade.

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Thanks Pat! Sounds like you know what you are talking about, so I'll take heed of your advice and direct my researches today using your words as a guide to what is supposed to happen. I've watched a few videos by this point, but every project is unique in some way, and I have not wrapped my head around exactly what needs to happen construction-wise just yet. I'm not intimidated or deterred, rather I recognize the critical nature of the area as far as structural integrity of the rest of the house goes. I'll have to rebuild it the correct way first, then seal and fortify the crap out of it, then redesign everything around it like you mention with adding gutters.

I'de be out there doing something right now if I could, but I need a hot shower and some stretching exercises first. I'm moving slow today.
The plastic held up fine over night, and nothing tried to claw the foam out of the way to get into the basement.
Thank goodness for foam! It the foam reinforcements under the floor that I did when doing the joist repair that is holding my floor level, so I need to go jack it up a quarter of an inch or so to get some wood blocking in there.
It's still summer, so if it stays like this til' I can afford the lumber on the first it will be fine, so long as I keep it properly supported, dry and ventilated. That also gives me less of a sense of urgency about it, so I don't rush it, and plan it correctly. I still have not even read any of the sections of my home repair books yet to see what they have to say about it.
I realize my books are mostly out dated, and that siding is undergoing a shift toward a new method that is better suited toward damp environments like mine, and have found videos detailing the differences in construction methods, like this:

[video=youtube;5KCPKDFL1tw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KCPKDFL1tw[/video]

It looks like this is an add on and I don't see any foundation other than wood stacked on the ground. I think it is time to reevaluate the repairs you are making and consider doing some serious demo and rebuild from the ground up. This is a can of worms. Sorry, I think your time an effort would be better spent planning this out and starting over.

mkadams001 said:

It looks like this is an add on and I don't see any foundation other than wood stacked on the ground. I think it is time to reevaluate the repairs you are making and consider doing some serious demo and rebuild from the ground up. This is a can of worms. Sorry, I think your time an effort would be better spent planning this out and starting over.

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There is a foundation, but it sits too low. Thank you for your suggestion. I could never afford to do as you suggest, but a re-evaluation of the problem and possible solutions is definitely in order quite often.
Perhaps I should pour additional concrete on the top of the foundation to raise it above ground level?
Then I would not need to wait til' I can afford lumber to rebuild something that may rot again anyhow.
I can go charge some concrete at the hardware store, and I've used it before to build things so I won't have to do much research about that. It's dirt cheap too, but it is heavy, and that part will suck. I have plenty of rebar available too, and know about tying it properly and whatnot. I once helped lay a foundation for some extra cash when I first got out of the Army and was still working as best I could.
I'll have to look into this, but first I have to go stabilize the situation where it is at. I'll need to measure too to figure out how many bags I would need.

Thank you!!!

Raising the foundation up higher is a great idea. It could probably be done by using concrete block on top of your existing foundation wall and mortared in place. You might have to tie into the existing foundation with rebar though. Not sure of your local code requirements.

Pat_B said:

Raising the foundation up higher is a great idea. It could probably be done by using concrete block on top of your existing foundation wall and mortared in place. You might have to tie into the existing foundation with rebar though. Not sure of your local code requirements.

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There's no "Code Enforcement" in my town, and it shows if you take a ride around the neighborhood and see some of the wacky stuff.
That said, I'll find the prescribed methods commonly in use, and try my best to make it a professional grade repair/modification.

I'm definitely going to attach into the current foundation, as it is built right onto the granite that pretty much makes up the backyard heading up the hill. No chance of that sinking.
I had to use one of my Deck Post 4"x4"x8' pieces to keep the roof proper, but I had kinda' forgotten that I had those, since I bought them for building my porch. I have 3 more, and they might just become part of my bathroom structure in some way, although I hope I don't find a use for them. I secure that one with some 4" deck screws, so it'll be fine for now, and I would feel safe if I had to get onto the roof for any reason, though I won't push my luck and actually go up there.
I think what happened is that over the past 7 years that I've lived here, the soil from that area has migrated downward and up against the skirting of the house essentially burying and then overflowing into the sill. From the little bit of excavation I was able to accomplish today for my temporary drainage ditch, this appears to have happened like that. I can likely clear all of the soil away down to the granite where it goes into the basement, forming the thing the foundation is poured on. Not today, but the granite is only about a foot deeper than my emergency ditch. It's raining on and off here today, and I'm in rough shape, so some indoor chores will get done and I'll do some spackle work. There's also a another wall in the bathroom that is not in bad shape, save for a couple mold spots which if I stop it now will not destroy the wood.
I can paint that with mold killing primer and maybe do the first layer of Great Stuff on it. There is a second plastic wall on the inside too, also secured with wire nails and those long narrow strips of wood. i even got the little wire nails for free from the dollhouse factory. There were about 70lbs. of them in three different sizes, so I grabbed them all and will never want for those again for the rest of my days.

The only question you might ask yourself is "While they are not enforcing the code right now, do I want to take the chance they might decide to all of a sudden?". I'd err on the side of finding out from town hall if there is a code and, if so, follow it. It would really stink to have them slap a condemned sticker on your door if you cross some line.

H_Rocket said:

The only question you might ask yourself is "While they are not enforcing the code right now, do I want to take the chance they might decide to all of a sudden?". I'd err on the side of finding out from town hall if there is a code and, if so, follow it. It would really stink to have them slap a condemned sticker on your door if you cross some line.

Click to expand...

The little farm right down the road from me is proof that I'm in no danger with my little project, but thanks for the heads up.
The folks across the street from me live in a trailer camper in what is essentially a junkyard.
I want to be rid of this house someday, so it will be as "codey" looking as I can make it be.

I'm just realizing how luck I am that the basement is so tiny, and that there granite does come in near the top of the back wall, as there will be relatively little material to remove to get to the base of the foundation. I'm not in anyshape to lift the hatch to get in there right now, but next time I go into the basement I'll take a picture to explain what I mean about the granite. It comes in one wall, then extends downward into the room about 5-6 feet and that's where it disappears into the floor.

WowTop! It looks like you bought a can of worms and certainly have your work cut out for you. In one of your previous photos taken from the inside, it shows the backside of the vinyl siding and a piece of the expanded polystyrene foam board. This is typically seen when a homeowner hires some Jake Leg "home improvement" salesman who then does a cover up job without fixing the underlying problem, which was then passed on to you. These are the kind of unethical things that give all remodeling contractors a bad reputation and it only makes the underlying problems worse.

That said, it is fixable. It appears that the exterior wall that you exposed runs parallel with the floor joists which would make it possible to build up with a treated lumber sole plate, rim joists and/or blocking and lots of uncomfortable labor. It also appears from your photos that this wall is taking the roof loads and are supported by nothing but the remaining plywood sheathing and air. I would strongly suggest that you FIRST temporarily install some 2 x 4 props from the ground up to the bottom of the top wall plates, both for your safety and to prevent any sagging of the roof structure. I wish I could be there to give you a hand. Maybe you can find another vet who has some remodeling experience to help you through this?

Ted

tmacklin said:

WowTop! It looks like you bought a can of worms and certainly have your work cut out for you. In one of your previous photos taken from the inside, it shows the backside of the vinyl siding and a piece of the expanded polystyrene foam board. This is typically seen when a homeowner hires some Jake Leg "home improvement" salesman who then does a cover up job without fixing the underlying problem, which was then passed on to you. These are the kind of unethical things that give all remodeling contractors a bad reputation and it only makes the underlying problems worse.

That said, it is fixable. It appears that the exterior wall that you exposed runs parallel with the floor joists which would make it possible to build up with a treated lumber sole plate, rim joists and/or blocking and lots of uncomfortable labor. It also appears from your photos that this wall is taking the roof loads and are supported by nothing but the remaining plywood sheathing and air. I would strongly suggest that you FIRST temporarily install some 2 x 4 props from the ground up to the bottom of the top wall plates, both for your safety and to prevent any sagging of the roof structure. I wish I could be there to give you a hand. Maybe you can find another vet who has some remodeling experience to help you through this?

Ted

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Thanks Ted!

I got an 8 foot 4x4 holding the corner up now, and there are only a couple of studs that had to be removed for rot, so it is pretty solid now. I put a flat piece of decking under the 4X4 and a couple of 4" deck screws and a squirt of construction adhesive to hold it fast.
I built the crap out of the floor, and I had to over build the joists too, and that meant adding uprights as well as cross members.
The uprights are right behind the foam section that I did from the inside, and they go down onto the granite, where they sit ontop of and are glued and screwed to pieces of synthetic decking. The studs ontop of that section are still saveable, though I will likely have to remove a little bit of them and graft in new stuff in a spot or two. I wish the hatch to the basement were not so heavy and unwieldy.

Sounds like you have it under control. Go slow and methodically and get the structural defects repaired first. When you get to replacing the plywood sheathing, do not butt the joints tightly (1/4" on the 8' length and 1/8" on the 4' joints is pretty much standard). Then goes the exterior moisture barrier (15# tar paper, or building wrap) and finally the siding. Do not nail the vinyl siding tight...it must be allowed to move.

Did the same people who did the siding job also do the re-roofing? And was the new roof installed over the old one? The reason I ask is that the leaking old roof probably caused much of the damage to your walls, especially if winter ice dams formed and then melted along the eaves, causing water to back up under the shingles. But...if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :wink:

That's great if you are able to simply clear the soil away to get the needed clearance. Might be more of a landscape project than a building project.

I don't recall your exact foundation description, but it might not be a bad idea to use some structural repair compound to level off the top of the existing foundation in case it isn't already level. That's a lot better than trying to fill it in with some sort of 'filler'.

Not having building codes is a mixed blessing so long as you are able to at least follow reasonable construction standards to ensure a safe building.

I just finished a 600 s/f workshop last fall. Was a lot of fun to build.

tmacklin said:

Sounds like you have it under control. Go slow and methodically and get the structural defects repaired first. When you get to replacing the plywood sheathing, do not butt the joints tightly (1/4" on the 8' length and 1/8" on the 4' joints is pretty much standard). Then goes the exterior moisture barrier (15# tar paper, or building wrap) and finally the siding. Do not nail the vinyl siding tight...it must be allowed to move.

Did the same people who did the siding job also do the re-roofing? And was the new roof installed over the old one? The reason I ask is that the leaking old roof probably caused much of the damage to your walls, especially if winter ice dams formed and then melted along the eaves, causing water to back up under the shingles. But...if it ain't broke, don't fix it! :wink:

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Thanks!

I think my neighbor that gave me the wood for my deck probably did the roof, as it was his Dad's inlaws that lived here, and since they were practically neighbors and he has a roofing business....
I want to ask him about it, but they are really busy this time of year so I'll wait until I run into him down at the store or in passing around town.
I don't want to really discuss the roof just yet as I have my hands full and it seems like it's going to still be there a month from now. If I start thinking about it now it will side track me from properly engineering a sound solution to my current problems.
Anyhow, here's the stuff from the inside view.:




The stud on the left that looks like it is missing a piece is only notched for a recessed medicine cabinet, which I refinished and will re use, but I'm going to have it project into the room and make a border shelving unit for it. Then I can reinforce that stud, plus have greater depth of insulation in that spot.

I painted the back inner wall of the good siding with the mold killing primer, to include the studs. The siding was held on with nails, buy that's going to have to get opened from the outside too soon, so I freehanded a hacksaw blade from the inside, and removed all but one of the protruding nails. I'll go back and cut that out later, as I was already in tyvek, gloves and respirator when I found that one.
I also did a second coat of it on the ceiling, and the spots above the shower that had been mostly bare wood.


If I have to, when I'm done fitting the new members and leveling things, I may have to use some all thread to put through the studs to tension them correctly. I may go ahead and add an extra stud to every existing stud if I can find some more free wood.
As far as the spacing on the outside siding, I was looking into something called a Z-bar, that separates each section top and bottom, and also provides a better finished product. It's just aluminum or plastic flashing in a z shape, so it could be made if necessary.
I've been watching a lot of sill repair and siding videos.

This old codger manages alright, and he's got a rough bit of work he takes on with foundation and sill plate rebuild.:

[video=youtube;WLebS5II1jA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLebS5II1jA[/video]

Can't quite tell from the photo if the window opening is framed correctly. It does look like the 16" spacing it at least off on the bottom. You need a header above the window that carries the load of the roof down to the plate. Here's an example https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/framing_a_window.html

There are span charts that you can use to calculate the size of the header that is needed. It all depends on the width of the opening, the species of wood, and what load you'll be carrying (another floor above versus just roof). You're probably looking at either a doubled up 2x4 or 2x6, both with a 1/2" piece of plywood in between to span that window opening correctly.

Pat_B said:

Can't quite tell from the photo if the window opening is framed correctly. It does look like the 16" spacing it at least off on the bottom. You need a header above the window that carries the load of the roof down to the plate. Here's an example https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/framing_a_window.html

There are span charts that you can use to calculate the size of the header that is needed. It all depends on the width of the opening, the species of wood, and what load you'll be carrying (another floor above versus just roof). You're probably looking at either a doubled up 2x4 or 2x6, both with a 1/2" piece of plywood in between to span that window opening correctly.

Click to expand...

Thanks!
The Header is there, and I know it is structural, but I should be able to see what's behind it when I finish getting the siding removed.
There is no cripple stud, and prior to my opening up the wall, no insulation at all had been tucked into any of the spaces around the window.

I've been looking into the construction tech used in Alaska and northern zone climates, as I was seeing too much irrelevant stuff or techniques with general searches for sill repair/retrofit and foundation modifications and whatnot.

This video here tells me everything that's wrong with my crawl space.:

[video=youtube;5PH95HSNyv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PH95HSNyv0[/video]