Estes Nike Smoke PSII Build (Possible L1 HPR Cert Rocket)

dixontj93060 said:

I know you said your selection was limited, but lately I have been staying away from 2X gloss and going with their satin finish instead. It seems like that formulation is more like the flat and less prone to run than the gloss. It still ends up with a nice sheen but I can gloss it up or dull it down depending on how I apply my Future Finish anyway.

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That's a good tip. I've never tried the satin. I just ordered a six pack of what I thought was gloss, but turned out to be semi-gloss. First can was chunky. It came out like silly string!

So, I get to wet sand my Ventris too.

I'll try the satin and see how it goes.

Once I got a nice gloss undercoat on, it looked so pretty, I almost didn't want to do anything else with the rocket.



It looked solid. "Real"...

But I went ahead.

According to the data in Peter Alway's drawings, three fins are fluorescent red, and one is fluorescent yellow. I looked around online for some appropriately colored paint, and found some, but the price of the paint plus shipping added up to over 30 dollars. And what if I got a bad can?? I'd have to order another one!

In most photos I've seen online, due to their age, the fins often simply look orange and yellow, and I had two cans - both Krylon - which looked close enough, and didn't have any paint problems. Here's a rocket I built that had those colors, and they looked pretty close.



I put some tape on the fin I would paint yellow, to avoid confusion. All the others would be orange.



Then, I built the mask.







I went to do a light coat of the white over the tape to seal it down, and I got a big paint drip on the base of one fin... I freaked out, and, stupidly, tried to wipe it off, leaving both streaks of paint and lint on the rocket.

I set the rocket down, walked around for a bit... Thought of quitting rocketry...

Then I got back to painting. I decided the mask was built, and the lines were good. I'd go ahead and paint all the fins, then wet sand and touch up the bad fin later.

It didn't look as bad as I thought.

I went ahead and did the yellow fin before retouching the orange fin.

This Krylon skins over fast, and I've left it too long before removing masks in the past. I've had tape tear and get stuck under a mask line, and had a visible ridge of paint where I pulled up the tape. So while I normally mask the edges where the paint will go first, then build the rest of the mask around it, this time, I masked everything else first, and finished with the lines around the fin root, so I could get access to it right away, without having to undo the whole mask.





Paint...



And reveal...







I decided to leave the rest of the mask intact, and wet sanded the bad fin.





After painting, it looked great.

Lookin Good :smile:

Very nice ! Great idea to seal tape with the base coat color, I've had issues trying to seal with clear

Nick@JET said:

Very nice ! Great idea to seal tape with the base coat color, I've had issues trying to seal with clear

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Oh, me too! I tried that with a red stripe down a white rocket once. When I pulled the tape up, half the red came off with it.

Clear has to be very last - once all colors / decals ect are done or your asking for trouble.

Once the paint was fixed, it was time to do waterslide decals.



I always get nervous before doing waterslides. For the record, they usually go on just fine, but the few times I have problems are so frustrating that I get a little stressed each time I have to put them on.

Even when they go on just fine, I often get them a little crooked. More often than that, if I have two decals that go on either side of a rocket, each side looks great by itself, but if you look closely, you can see that they're not in the same spot. Lining them up right has always been a challenge for me. I've put pencil marks on the paint, but usually get a clear part of the decal over the pencil mark, so I can't go back and erase it.

I also wasn't exactly sure how far up from the base the lettering should start.

I printed out Peter Alway's drawings of the Nike Smoke. I needed some reference.



I measured the drawing in metric, then measured the airframe of my rocket, and decided that the lettering should start about 24cm (I think) from the aft end.

Side note, when I posted this on the NAR FB page, Peter Alway mentioned that he often eyeballs the lettering. But it looked right to me, and it meant that I didn't have to decide myself where the lettering should start.

I placed a bit of tape to mark 24cm (I think) from the base of the rocket, on the rail button side.



The UNITED STATES lettering reads upwards on one side, and downwards on the other. I wanted to make sure the ends of the lettering were even on either side of the decal, so I cut them apart and flipped them so they'd read in opposite directions from one another.



Looked good.

Then I measured the distance from the edge of the lettering to the edge of the decal.



About 9mm.

I decided to make a guide with waxed paper. I would place the decal just at the edge of the waxed paper, and hopefully, the decals would be even with one another.

I placed the waxed paper 9mm from the leading edge of the blue tape.



Then, it was go time...







After smoothing out the decal, getting all air bubbles out, I took off the waxed paper, and let the first side dry. Came out great!

After the decals dried, the rocket looked great.



All that remained was to add a clear coat and rail buttons.

I used Rusto 2X matte clear. It went on pretty rough, but it did make the rocket look larger, with its flat finish. I need to look into a smoother dullcote for the next one.









I finished by adding white 1010 rail buttons from rail-buttons.com.

The one flaw, which drove me crazy at the moment, but which you may not even be able to see in this picture, is a big piece of fuzz which I failed to wipe off the rocket before the clear coat. So, it's trapped under there.



I know it's a small detail nobody will see when it's on the pad, but it bothered me. I considered wet sanding it out and re-touching the clear coat, but I didn't bother before launch. I still might, but I've moved on to other builds.

Finally, I built a stand. I used some flat plywood with a birch plaque glued in the center. I filled the end of an expended Estes F15 BP motor with 5-minute epoxy, the epoxied that to the plaque, and painted the whole thing flat black. The tape thrust ring I had put on the aft end of the BP motor held the rocket just up from the stand, and it looks great.





The whole thing turned out really great, and the flat paint makes it feel pretty sturdy. I definitely don't need to worry about visible scratches, like I do with gloss paint.

First flight was on an Estes/AT G40-7 motor at Berwick, Maine, with a Jolly Logic Chute Release set for 400 feet. Beautiful, fun flight, and no damage!

[video=youtube;-z4cFnjYMy0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z4cFnjYMy0[/video]

Now to begin building a new one!

Very nice as always and a terrific video as well. It looks like you had a bit of wind as evidenced by the smoke trail, yet the rocket flew very straight. What was the delay time on the G40?

lcorinth said:

First flight was on an Estes/AT G40-7 motor at Berwick, Maine, with a Jolly Logic Chute Release set for 400 feet. Beautiful, fun flight, and no damage!

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Great video! Congrats on your successful maiden flight. I also noticed that my PSII Nike Smoke came down faster than I would have expected with the JLCR. That's a good thing.. as long as the chute opens! I had an altimeter 3 for a flight on a G76-10G, and you can see how fast it dropped until the JLCR opened. It's about 41 ft/second, pretty good rate for a separated Estes PS rocket. My mostly stock Estes PSII Leviathan drops at 32 ft/second with the JLCR reefing the chute.

lcorinth said:

The one flaw, which drove me crazy at the moment, but which you may not even be able to see in this picture, is a big piece of fuzz which I failed to wipe off the rocket before the clear coat. So, it's trapped under there.

View attachment 302432

I know it's a small detail nobody will see when it's on the pad, but it bothered me. I considered wet sanding it out and re-touching the clear coat, but I didn't bother before launch. I still might, but I've moved on to other builds.

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Aside, that fuzz in your paint is terrible. You probably lost at least 100 millimeters of altitude due to the extreme drag it creates. ;-) It's a rocket, and if you're going to fly it.. I'm sure a few more flights will hide the fuzz with a few memorable landings!

tmacklin said:

Very nice as always and a terrific video as well. It looks like you had a bit of wind as evidenced by the smoke trail, yet the rocket flew very straight. What was the delay time on the G40?

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7 seconds. It's the only G40 motor I can currently find. But most of my rockets sim out to need near that delay time, so it works out OK. I really like that motor.

Nice Flight !!!

I too like the G 40-7. It seems that most of the PSII rockets like this motor as well. My Partizon flies great on the Estes G 40-7.
A Jolly Logic Chute Release is the way to go on these mid power birds, practically indispensable.

kevinkal said:

Great video! Congrats on your successful maiden flight. I also noticed that my PSII Nike Smoke came down faster than I would have expected with the JLCR. That's a good thing.. as long as the chute opens! I had an altimeter 3 for a flight on a G76-10G, and you can see how fast it dropped until the JLCR opened. It's about 41 ft/second, pretty good rate for a separated Estes PS rocket. My mostly stock Estes PSII Leviathan drops at 32 ft/second with the JLCR reefing the chute.

View attachment 302455

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Dude, are you using an old version of the app? Try the new version, it labels your Chute Release descent rates, plus adds all of the AltimeterTwo analyses!

John Beans said:

Dude, are you using an old version of the app? Try the new version, it labels your Chute Release descent rates, plus adds all of the AltimeterTwo analyses!

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Hi John,
I updated my android tablet to the latest version a while back, however the image I'd posted was acquired well before that. I was able to recover 2 corrupted sets of flight data, including my level 1 cert flight.

I do not have Rocksim or any other like program. I am currently building an Estes Nike Smoke as per this thread. Would it work ok on an Aerotech E20-7? I have flown an Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk on these for years and they work great in it.
Bob

littbob said:

I do not have Rocksim or any other like program. I am currently building an Estes Nike Smoke as per this thread. Would it work ok on an Aerotech E20-7? I have flown an Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk on these for years and they work great in it.
Bob

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Bob, OpenRocket is a FREE Java program that will sim just about any motor that will semi-sanely fit in a PSII Nike Smoke, on top of that prebuilt files for the PSII NS are available in both .rkt (Rocksim) and .ork (OpenRocket).

littbob said:

I do not have Rocksim or any other like program. I am currently building an Estes Nike Smoke as per this thread. Would it work ok on an Aerotech E20-7? I have flown an Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk on these for years and they work great in it.
Bob

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The PSII Nike Smoke? I've flown it on a G33, and it was definitely under powered. The tag lists F26, if I recall correctly, but I wouldn't believe it. I think 40+ N is needed.

littbob said:

I do not have Rocksim or any other like program. I am currently building an Estes Nike Smoke as per this thread. Would it work ok on an Aerotech E20-7? I have flown an Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk on these for years and they work great in it.
Bob

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Go with an F44-4W instead. Only a couple Ns bigger but a much more satisfactory speed off the pad. Mine gets an estimated 500-600 feet on these motors.

littbob said:

I do not have Rocksim or any other like program. I am currently building an Estes Nike Smoke as per this thread. Would it work ok on an Aerotech E20-7? I have flown an Aerotech IQSY Tomahawk on these for years and they work great in it.
Bob

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I just ran an OpenRocket sim of mine with an E20, and it's definitely too slow off the rod.

I love to fly them on Estes G40-7's (actually made by AeroTech, but branded with Estes' name). Really nice flights on that motor.

Ok, where do you get single use F motors with the thrust ring? I like the idea of the F44 due to lower altitude. We have winds almost daily average 10 to 15 MPH. I don't use reloadables. I'd prefer not to use the Estes F motors as I would have to put in the block ring and don't have a 29mm motor to see if that would mess up using F motors with a thrust ring. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I am in Idaho and the only HS isn't much help. We have a Hobby Lobby but they only carry the lower end Estes F motors.
Bob

littbob said:

Ok, where do you get single use F motors with the thrust ring? I like the idea of the F44 due to lower altitude. We have winds almost daily average 10 to 15 MPH. I don't use reloadables. I'd prefer not to use the Estes F motors as I would have to put in the block ring and don't have a 29mm motor to see if that would mess up using F motors with a thrust ring. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I am in Idaho and the only HS isn't much help. We have a Hobby Lobby but they only carry the lower end Estes F motors.
Bob

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I've had good results ordering from Hobbylinc. Here's a link to their F motors:https://www.hobbylinc.com/f-model-rocket-engines

You should seriously consider picking up a Jolly Logic Chute Release and an AeroTech Reloadable motor. For the Estes PSII Nike Smoke, the RMS 29/40-120 Hardware is and excellent choice. They have been out of stock for a while at Hobbylinc.. so I'm guessing AeroTech has been having some difficulty keeping up with demand. Wildman seems to have a good price on the hardware. You might want to give Tim a call and see if he has any in stock.

Salvage-1 said:

Good choice on your L1 bird. The Estes Nike Smoke is a beast, and you look like you are doing a fine job.
Mine have flown on H410VMax's a few times, so I can tell you that the rocket can withstand H's just fine.
The only difference I did was to use Gorilla Glue to do attach the two fin halves to each other, they didn't come apart!.

Look forward to seeing this finished and fly.

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You used that expandable gorilla glue?

littbob said:

Ok, where do you get single use F motors with the thrust ring? I like the idea of the F44 due to lower altitude. We have winds almost daily average 10 to 15 MPH. I don't use reloadables. I'd prefer not to use the Estes F motors as I would have to put in the block ring and don't have a 29mm motor to see if that would mess up using F motors with a thrust ring. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I am in Idaho and the only HS isn't much help. We have a Hobby Lobby but they only carry the lower end Estes F motors.
Bob

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All the AeroTech F single-use motors except the F50T in 29mm and F30FJ in 24mm (and maybe some others I don't know about) ship reasonably, and you can get them online in various places- Sirius Rocketry for example.

The F44 ships non-HAZMAT but if you have a stock Nike Smoke, it won't fit without an adapter. The F42T will though, with similar performance.

kevinkal said:

Hi John,
I updated my android tablet to the latest version a while back, however the image I'd posted was acquired well before that. I was able to recover 2 corrupted sets of flight data, including my level 1 cert flight.

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Forgot to mention when you posted this in September: the updated app adds new features to old flights, too. Let me know if it doesn't!

lcorinth said:

I started building this around the same time I started my Leviathan build (thread here).

For a while, the Nike Smoke was progressing much faster than the Leviathan, but the Leviathan is now finished, while I'm still wrestling with paint on the Nike Smoke (you'll see what I mean later in this thread). My planned L1 cert flight will be in September, so if I finish this rocket by then, and if I change my mind about the Leviathan (or if something happens to it), this will be my backup.

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Since September is past and I didn't see a post about L1, I was wondering if you had attempted the L1 yet.

Have you flown the Nike and Leviathan on F and G motors much?

You can take my opinion for what it's worth, but I seldom recommend that people get their L1 on a MPR rocket. The Leviathan will certainly work, I fly mine on the AT H180W and H128W quite often. The thing is, I have several 38mm rockets that I can fly the full L1 range of motors with. That is kind of the problem with using MPR rockets for L1 certs, after you have the cert you don't have any rockets you can fly the full H and I motors with. Getting the cert is cool, but you need to build a 38mm MMT rocket to really be able to fly the full range of L1 motors.

The reason I bring that up is because until you actually fly the L1 motors, you really don't have an appreciation for the power of mid H to large I motors. Simulations are one thing, but having to walk a ways to retrieve the rocket or losing one in the trees off the field gives you a whole now perspective. A baby H will get you a L1 cert, but flying the larger H and I motors will teach you a lot about flying the field, and how to adjust your motor size to field and weather conditions. That will become more important as you progress to L2. The MPR generally stays under about 1500 ft. L1 will push 4000 ft. The L2 can easily get you 10,000 ft. Flying the field becomes much more important and more difficult.

It's all good though. It's all about the journey. Have fun and good luck and learn things....

Handeman said:

Since September is past and I didn't see a post about L1, I was wondering if you had attempted the L1 yet.

Have you flown the Nike and Leviathan on F and G motors much?

You can take my opinion for what it's worth, but I seldom recommend that people get their L1 on a MPR rocket. The Leviathan will certainly work, I fly mine on the AT H180W and H128W quite often. The thing is, I have several 38mm rockets that I can fly the full L1 range of motors with. That is kind of the problem with using MPR rockets for L1 certs, after you have the cert you don't have any rockets you can fly the full H and I motors with. Getting the cert is cool, but you need to build a 38mm MMT rocket to really be able to fly the full range of L1 motors.

The reason I bring that up is because until you actually fly the L1 motors, you really don't have an appreciation for the power of mid H to large I motors. Simulations are one thing, but having to walk a ways to retrieve the rocket or losing one in the trees off the field gives you a whole now perspective. A baby H will get you a L1 cert, but flying the larger H and I motors will teach you a lot about flying the field, and how to adjust your motor size to field and weather conditions. That will become more important as you progress to L2. The MPR generally stays under about 1500 ft. L1 will push 4000 ft. The L2 can easily get you 10,000 ft. Flying the field becomes much more important and more difficult.

It's all good though. It's all about the journey. Have fun and good luck and learn things....

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I got my L1 over a year ago, in September, with an Estes Leviathan on a Cesaroni H133.

[video=youtube;or7M_K0eCGA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or7M_K0eCGA&t=[/video]

I had considered waiting until had a 38mm motor mount rocket to do the L1, as I'd seen it recommended elsewhere, because of the wider range of motors available, which I can appreciate. I actually kind of felt like using a PSII rocket was kind of "cheating."

But then I changed my mind. I realized what was important was building the rocket soundly, flying it and recovering it intact. The H133 is a pretty kicky motor, so it would put plenty of stress on the rocket - putting my build to the test. And it came back looking like I'd just finished painting it, with the exception of a bit of loose dirt on two fins.

I don't know if I'd put this Nike Smoke up on an H133, now that I've had more experience. The two part fins might split with the force - that sucker really took off.

But once I can get my hands on an H54, I'll definitely put that in there. And I'm building a few larger motor mount rockets which will give me plenty of experience with H and I motors before I even consider an L2.

I AM FRUSTRATED BY THE DUMBED DOWN ESTES INSTRUCTIONS. NOWADAYS, ESTES DOESN"T TELL YOU HOW TO USE THE GREEN PAPER RING. IT COULD HAVE SAVED ME A WORLD OF TROUBLE, BUT THE ONLY REFERENCE FOR IT WAS TO SPACE THE FORE AND AFT CENTERING RINGS. I SHOULD HAVE USED IT TO HOLD THE SLOTTED RING LEVEL...BUT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME. NOW I HAVE A TILTED MIDDLE RING. ARRGGGHHH... (HATE THESE MULTIPLE LANGUAGE INSTRUCTIONS THEY PUT OUT.!)

I often mark the forward and aft ends of my motor tubes ("F" and "A") to make sure I'm putting things together correctly.

The green paper ring helps you get the centering rings on perfectly straight. It slips over the motor tube, and you put the centering ring up against it, and glue the centering ring in place with a fillet. Then you remove the green spacer ring and fillet the other side of the CR.

View attachment 298472

The spacer ring is then used to keep the forward and aft centering rings straight.

View attachment 298473

Finally, you glue the green spacer onto the forward end of the motor tube. It probably isn't necessary, but it may add a little bit of support to the centering ring, and you don't have anything to throw away.

Once the motor mount is assembled, you can see how the fin (which is just dry fitted together here) snaps into the middle centering ring, assuring perfect fin alignment.

View attachment 298474

View attachment 298475

At this point, you can even dry fit the whole rocket together, by putting the motor mount into the rocket (not gluing it just yet!) and inserting the fins. It all snaps into place, and you can see what the finished product will look like.

View attachment 298476[/QUOTE]

I AM FRUSTRATED BY THE DUMBED DOWN ESTES INSTRUCTIONS. NOWADAYS, ESTES DOESN"T TELL YOU HOW TO USE THE GREEN PAPER RING. IT COULD HAVE SAVED ME A WORLD OF TROUBLE, BUT THE ONLY REFERENCE FOR IT WAS TO SPACE THE FORE AND AFT CENTERING RINGS. I SHOULD HAVE USED IT TO HOLD THE SLOTTED RING LEVEL...BUT IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME.

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I really wish you posted this about 48 hours ago, I did the same thing but I sat there with a ruler making adjustments for about an hour to keep the center ring from being crooked.