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  1. #1
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    Working on Scratch building 3 fairly complex Micro Scale models.

    As many of you know I'm kind of a Scale model nut as well as flying all things Micro Maxx.

    To that end I've been working (for the last couple years) on 3 obscure and 1 not often done but very historic Scale models in Micro Scale.

    First on the list has been the Tiamat JB-3 missile. Our first US Army-Air Force, Air to Air Guided missile. Contracted to Huges Aircraft Co. in 1944 (project MX-570). Test Launched from Wallops Island, VA. First Tast flight was July 4, 1945. The missile using a short angled launch ramp and very interesting 7 chamber booster was a success with a number of follow up launches from the same location over the next year.
    I've been fortunate enough to be able to actually measure one of the last remaining examples of this Historic missile in person at Wallops Island NASA research facility visitor's center.
    I'm using 1:23.5765 scale on this effort; turning a balsa Tiamat body 1.456" in diameter x 5.75" oval with the last approx. 1/4" clipped to allow the T2+ motor tube to be located. The Booster will be a very interesting mix of 7- T2+ Booster motor tubes Core and 6- canted with 6 1/8" secondary tubes which i'm hoping to use as Gap Stage exhaust vents to allow the upper stage to use a single MMX-II. If this proves to be either too much of a gap or not enough air space I'll revert to a single stage configuration using a 7 motor cluster.
    Over all the model should be 1.456" dia, x 7.9375" long with a wing span of about 3.5".
    working out the cluster venting to the core gap stage has been a bit of a challange creating some concern as to the longevity of the model once complete. That said: I don't beleive this particular missile has ever been models so it will be done in the next month or so.

    Number 2: the X-7A (AQM-60 Kingfisher) A Lockheed Corp Ramjet test bed reuseable missle with HUGE booster. First flown 04-26-1951 testing the ramjet motors to be used on the Bomarc missile program. This one is scaled at 1: 81.300 making it fairly small compaired to the Tiamat. with the actual X-7A being T2 (.246"OD) x 4.921675" long. The Massive Wing & Tailed Booster is T3 (.375" OD) x 1.6406" long with our MMX-II T2+ motor tube and turned Basswood adaptor. slung underneath is a turned basswood ram-jet and pylon.
    This one is further along the the Tiamat, still needing assembly and painting but the major parts have all been turned. and motor mount with Streamer recovery & shock-line done.

    Number 3: Farside Project: this is a HUGE clustered 4 stage very early sounding Rocket the was Lofted to 100,000ft by a 200ft balloon then launched from a suspended rack beneath the balloon by a first stage of 4- Nike motors though the center of the balloon.
    This model will also be on the large side with the Nike booster and second stage single Nike booster being T3 (.375")
    Modeled at 1:24.2438 Scale the Over all model length will be 11.9896". The prototype rocket is 24'-61/2" long.
    As with the Tiamat this one has several very interesting (and Complicated) junctions that have been giving me pause as which way to build the model ie; single stage cluster or clustered two stage? At the moment I'm leaning toward a simple single stage 4- MMX-II cluster with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th stages inert. I am considering a mock up of the balloon with a teathered launch rack frame suspeneded below a 8'-3" mylar drapped circluar frame suspended from 3- 36" helium filled ballons. Hey is a dream but could work. I've been toying with this prototype and balloon mock-up for a very long time....we'll see if it comes to pass or the rocket is simply flown from a Nanorail

    Number 4: MMX AIR-2A Genie (air-to-air Nuke): 1: 32.1692 Scale:
    This seamingly simple missile is far from it. Even at this T4+ (.478"OD) body with a BT-5 Turned Basswood warhead it has a load of aft detailing that can be worked out. I'm looking at spring loading the 4- 3 piece fins to pop out prior to launch or perhaps work out so sort of Launch rod retractor that will hold the fin pieces in until the rod is cleared? Still not sure on which way that one will go.
    That said the tail cone and fin fairing are going to be a fun build. Turing are all but done, Still have to hollow the warhead.

    Sorry but most of the photos are still in the camera;
    I do have a couple shots of the real rockets & missiles so you can see some of the building challenges ahead.
    I know at least two of these rockets have never been models before so we'll see how that go. I'm hoping to do build thread or semi-build threads on each of these Micro Mod-Rocs, as some of these parts were made before I started keeping build photos. If all goes well, stay tuned looking for some pretty neat Micro Models.

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    Last edited by Micromeister; 17th July 2016 at 07:13 PM.
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  2. #2
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    Oooh, I love all those rockets! Great to see you modeling them.

    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  3. #3
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    Those are some ambitious projects indeed, and if anyone can get it done at that scale, it's definitely you.
    What kinds of techniques will you use? Paper fins? Templates? Molds?
    Any cool new materials?
    I'm definitely going to follow these builds, and think it's cool that you introduced them all in the same thread, as there will definitely be tons to learn!
    Best of everything on the builds!

    P.S.: Please show how you make the fins on each, and the materials, if that's not too much to ask, as that would be a real treat!
    I know you can do it, but I REALLY want to know HOW you do it.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstaff3 View Post
    Oooh, I love all those rockets! Great to see you modeling them.
    I do too! Thay are some of the "Unmentionables" of the modelling world, so to see them done as flying models at any scale is really cool!
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  5. #5
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    I have seen an X-7 and I seem to remember a Genie, but am not sure it isn't just wishful thinking. I've never seen a Tiamat model.
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstaff3 View Post
    I have seen an X-7 and I seem to remember a Genie, but am not sure it isn't just wishful thinking. I've never seen a Tiamat model.
    I seem to recall the same Genie Dick I think
    I also seem to recall a X-7A at Naram-50 in a much larger scale. Can't recall if it actually made a successful flight.
    No those two are just a couple of Nifty rockets with interesting "Quarks" in the building.

    It's the Tiamat and Farside project that I've never seen anyone model in any form.
    While researching both at the National Air & Space museum Library in DC one of the historians I was working with mentioned the Tiamat file had only been viewed by anyone once in 15years he worked there. After a very long (3 month) search process to other Aircraft & History museums it was confirmed by these folks there are no models or other examples of the Tiamat anywhere in the USA museum system. I was ask again If I produced a model (in any scale) that I consider donating it the NASM. Will have to see how it goes as to weather I build the Tiamat as a pair
    I first have to lick the Booster spacing problem and come up with a plan for where to house the recovery system or systems depending on the final mass of the booster. It is conceivable the booster may need it's own streamer to prevent damage on landing.

    The Farside has been moved from the Science Museum in Richmond, VA to the Udvar-Hasse Air & Space Museum, Dullas VA. It's a very impressive rocket although the vehicle on display is painted in colors that were never used in actual flights. I'm just a little torn on weather to use the display colors or the flight colors but am certainly leaning toward the flight colors (mostly Yellow,White and Silver).

    Each has it's own set of building concerns, At this scale I may have to forgo some of the smaller Nifty details like spot welding marks, some of the fasteners and alot of the intricate folded sheet metal work used on both.
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopRamen View Post
    Those are some ambitious projects indeed, and if anyone can get it done at that scale, it's definitely you.
    What kinds of techniques will you use? Paper fins? Templates? Molds?
    Any cool new materials?
    I'm definitely going to follow these builds, and think it's cool that you introduced them all in the same thread, as there will definitely be tons to learn!
    Best of everything on the builds!

    P.S.: Please show how you make the fins on each, and the materials, if that's not too much to ask, as that would be a real treat!
    I know you can do it, but I REALLY want to know HOW you do it.
    Thanks Top:
    Some of the major parts will be lathe turned Balsa, Bass and possibly HI-Density polyurethane foam (whichever comes out lighter). I have to fabricate a couple different forming Jigs (Tiamat booster). Seveal Cardstock and or CF tiny shrouds. a ton of small Rocket motor end caps with drilled vent holes.
    Some of the fins will be cardstock or very thin Lexan Polycarbonate skins with center ribs produced close to the way the actual fins were made (Tiamate & Genie) most of the fins for the X-7A and Farside will be shaped Basswood or Styrene. Lots of paper strappings. build up areas and larger shrouds.
    Some of the unseen materials will be .020" Stainless steel tape, Kevlar shock lines, Nomex heat sheilding, some fabricated Brass sheet and rod parts and Teflon thread sealing tape streamers. I'm also looking at molding a couple tiny parts but that may not happen because of mass. a couple spots may get a layer of 1/2oz glass in stress areas. Again if it looks like these will add much to the overall mass another route will be taken .
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  8. #8
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    I know I have never seen any of these in the in the flesh, I was referring to either the web or print mags. I know someone had a real one at some launch. Inert, of course The Tiamat will be really cool!
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstaff3 View Post
    I know I have never seen any of these in the in the flesh, I was referring to either the web or print mags. I know someone had a real one at some launch. Inert, of course The Tiamat will be really cool!
    Yes your correct the 7th photo of the Genie on the wheeled cart was at Naram 40 something. I can't recall exactly where, but I seem to recall a prehaps BT-60 size Genie as one of the earlier (1990's) Naram Sport Scale entries. It had fixed fins and very little detailing but the general shape way for sure a AIR-2A Genie.

    IIRC the X-7A was perhaps a BT-50 X-7 with a BT-70 Booster. Fairly impressive at that scale but frankly was almost just the vehicle outline with very little surface detail. The FS X-7A had rectanglar and Round projection antenna all over the forward end that I'm hoping can be done with sheet styrene attached once the X-7A body has been primed and smoothed. They will be very small projections but really add to the interest of the model. It will have to be seen if I can crated small enough projections and get them to stand up on edge without the epoxy creating to much of a fillet as to make them just appear as a bump.

    I took a couple of the beginning photos of the X-7A model parts this morning. Nothing super interesting but might give some idea as to size. remember my booster is only T3 in diameter .375".
    These are raw images, I haven't had time to clean them up or add captions. I'll swap them out when I get back to working on the model.
    Hopefully today I'll be working on turning the Tiamat oval main body.
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    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  10. #10
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    Well shucks, I didn't even notice the Genie-on-a-trailer above.
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  11. #11
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    WOW! That Tiamat is cool. like Rheintochter cool! Never seen one before. Gotta love that mid 40's design. A great design to burn through 14 motors! With some creative rear eject on the booster it could potentially get a pad assignment on an upscaled version.
    Last edited by Daddyisabar; 18th July 2016 at 08:32 PM.

  12. #12
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    I was challenged a couple years ago to do the Tiamat. I'm still working out the bugs on that one before I cut wood!! It is doable and I think in a smaller scale even more so !Those are all very cool challenges !
    Anyboby see that caboose go by----I lost my train of thought again! There's leaders and managers, those who can't lead just manage

  13. #13
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    I'm suddenly reminded of the work of Alexander Rogal, and Zactomodels...








    http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/...ic=242167&st=0


    Last edited by K'Tesh; 19th July 2016 at 02:56 PM.
    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  14. #14
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    Work continues on the Tiamat: It has become more of an obsession than any Scale prototype I've attempted before. The better 2/3rd had to tell me twice last night to come up from the Rocket dungeon for dinner... Doh! Call me anything but Late for Dinner! LOL.

    Anyway: got the Tiamat main body turned in balsa on the second try! YEAH! Still have to remove the nose section and decide if I'm going to hollow the entire thing out or just remove enough balsa to get a T3 body inside with a T2+ extended aft motor tube.
    Also working hard on the 6 canted MMX-II-NE Booster tubes ducting into the T2+ Core motor tube. Have the main tube taper built-up and sanded, 1/8" ducting holes drilled, CA hardened and the main tube Gap staged vent holes installed.
    I've also made up a booster stage tube alignment and gluing jig that will at some point become the aft end closer from 3/64" aircraft plywood. Have just about figured out the interstage coupler scheme. Will add some pics a bit later. Also want to start as Tiamat build thread... This one is starting to get really interesting
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  15. #15
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    Nice...but...where are the photos?
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  16. #16
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    Oops, forgot the
    Dick Stafford
    The member formerly known as the Pointy-Haired Moderator.
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micromeister View Post
    Number 2: the X-7A (AQM-60 Kingfisher) ...
    Just being picky, but the pictures you posted are of the X-7A-1, the Kingfisher was a variant of the X-7A-3, a very different bird.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmo View Post
    Just being picky, but the pictures you posted are of the X-7A-1, the Kingfisher was a variant of the X-7A-3, a very different bird.
    that is quite possible but I'm only quoting the id on the photo. I'm sure the X-7A-1 is correct the )AQM-60 Kingfisher) was listed in brackets as I typed it.
    I'm modeling the prototype in the photo X-7A-1.
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstaff3 View Post
    Nice...but...where are the photos?
    LOL! yeah I know!
    As Mentioned I will be starting a seperate Tiamat JB-3 Build Thread this morning. Had a little bit more history to research before starting the thread.

    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

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