Carbon Fiber fabric - Aramid CF

I have a build thread going in Techniques/Types - Scratch built but haven't received any comment on CF fabric suggestions for a lightweight fin can or airframe.
Figured some of you guys have preferences.
My CF experience is limited to spar caps and carbon tow on sailplane wings.
I know cutting it can get nasty and sometimes irritating....


Not going Mach or M motors on this one, just want a lightweight fabric to roll my own.
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Posted over there:

I've been going over price lists of CF fabric at CST and Aerospace Composites.
Lots of choices out there.

CST/The Composites Store : there are reasonable price rates available in 42 "wide rolls in 2.0 to 3.5 oz. and 5.7 oz. for minimum quantities (lengths).
LIGHT WEIGHT CARBON FIBER FABRIC, 3.5 oz./sq. yd., 42" wide 3.5 oz. Carbon Fiber Fabric - Plain Weave
24 X 24 Thread Count 0.007" Thick

https://www.cstsales.com/carbon_fabric.html

- Carbon Fiber 5.7oz 2x2 twill seems to be popular in other build threads, not sure about what you folks prefer.

Aerospace Composites: Prices look higher here for lower quantities of comparable CF cloth, although the hybrid aramid/CF cloth looks interesting and less expensive:

https://www.acpsales.com/Carbon-Fiber-Woven-Fabrics.html
https://www.acpsales.com/Carbon-Aramid-Fabric.html

5.4 oz Carbon/Aramid Yellow Fabric: 50" Wide 2x2 Twill
"This Carbon Fiber/Aramid hybrid offers the stiffness of carbon fiber and the impact resistance of Aramid all in one material. It is manufactured with 3K Carbon and KEVLAR® fibers and the 2x2 twill weave allow for easy layup on compound curves.
The Aramid fibers are dyed with red, blue or yellow dyes for eye-catching color."

Hey I'm a sailplane guy too!

The 5.7oz is a pretty good weight for what we do. It's easier to work with and is cheaper than the lighter stuff. The 2x2 twill looks neat and is *technically* a little stronger. Cutting it is easy with an Olfa roller cutter and a cutting mat.

I used the red Kevlar/carbon twill for my very first composite rocket way, way back. That exact same stuff, actually. You'll need Kevlar shears to cut it, or modify a pair of scissors using the Phil Barnes method (another sailplane guy). The problem with anything Kevlar is the sanding. It doesn't sand, it just gets fuzzy. But there is a way around that- just soak the fuzzies in thin CA then sand, then soak, then sand, rinse, wash, repeat...

AVT Composites is pretty inexpensive for 2x2 twill.

Jim

JimJarvis50 said:

AVT Composites is pretty inexpensive for 2x2 twill.

Jim

Click to expand...

Agreed here, you'll be getting a good quality fabric.

Jon Soller is a GREAT guy to deal with and really knows his stuff. Prices are as good as any I've seen and much better then the other links in this thread....

https://www.sollercomposites.com/

watheyak said:

Hey I'm a sailplane guy too!

The 5.7oz is a pretty good weight for what we do. It's easier to work with and is cheaper than the lighter stuff. The 2x2 twill looks neat and is *technically* a little stronger. Cutting it is easy with an Olfa roller cutter and a cutting mat.

I used the red Kevlar/carbon twill for my very first composite rocket way, way back. That exact same stuff, actually. You'll need Kevlar shears to cut it, or modify a pair of scissors using the Phil Barnes method (another sailplane guy). The problem with anything Kevlar is the sanding. It doesn't sand, it just gets fuzzy. But there is a way around that- just soak the fuzzies in thin CA then sand, then soak, then sand, rinse, wash, repeat...

Click to expand...

Nice to meet ya.
I was in a pretty good sailplane club when I lived in NoVA/MD.

Started with an Oly 650, then a Gnome 2m, then a Sagitta900. While I was building my first full house Bob Sealy Laser, I moved for a career change and had to go nitro - given it was the only club with a field around here and had no winch.
Then I went electric...by converting the Oly 650, I have a Ray Hayes Big Bird gone electric and an Mystique 2.9 RES.
I missed winch flying so I finally built one from a kit...once I located a Ford Long Shaft - haven't used it as of yet.
The new all molded stuff like the Orcas are great but a bit too $ for me - I have a lot of vintage sailplanes kits that probably will have to wait until I retire.

amellrotts said:

Jon Soller is a GREAT guy to deal with and really knows his stuff. Prices are as good as any I've seen and much better then the other links in this thread....

https://www.sollercomposites.com/

Click to expand...

Thanks guys, I will start checking these out.

MaxQ said:

Nice to meet ya.
I was in a pretty good sailplane club when I lived in NoVA/MD.

Started with an Oly 650, then a Gnome 2m, then a Sagitta900. While I was building my first full house Bob Sealy Laser, I moved for a career change and had to go nitro - given it was the only club with a field around here and had no winch.
Then I went electric...by converting the Oly 650, I have a Ray Hayes Big Bird gone electric and an Mystique 2.9 RES.
I missed winch flying so I finally built one from a kit...once I located a Ford Long Shaft - haven't used it as of yet.
The new all molded stuff like the Orcas are great but a bit too $ for me - I have a lot of vintage sailplanes kits that probably will have to wait until I retire.

Click to expand...

I'm heading down a similar path. I love building. I have built a Mark Drela's Allegro Lite and his Bubble Dancer. I also have the cores for a Supra but I think I'm a little scared to start that just yet. All the guys I work with fly large scale gassers, so I bought plans for a Prime Cut +20. I've cut out all the ribs and various parts. I work on it in between rockets these days.

Have fun rolling your own tubes. I've averaged 1-2 tubes a year since '96 for myself and others. Pretty straight forward, there's lots of information here. And forget trying to vacuum bag them, as a sailplane guy that was my default and I had to unlearn some things. I do vac bag the fin cans, though.

Take care

watheyak said:

I'm heading down a similar path. I love building. I have built a Mark Drela's Allegro Lite and his Bubble Dancer. I also have the cores for a Supra but I think I'm a little scared to start that just yet. All the guys I work with fly large scale gassers, so I bought plans for a Prime Cut +20. I've cut out all the ribs and various parts. I work on it in between rockets these days.

Have fun rolling your own tubes. I've averaged 1-2 tubes a year since '96 for myself and others. Pretty straight forward, there's lots of information here. And forget trying to vacuum bag them, as a sailplane guy that was my default and I had to unlearn some things. I do vac bag the fin cans, though.

Take care

Click to expand...

Drela's birds are very nice...Bubble Dancer...that's a nice glider....
Cutting ribs. Boy you ARE a builder.

I used to be a sail plane guy as well.

I wouldn't recommend the hybrid fabric. The stiffness of the aramid is lower than the stiffness of the carbon, so the carbon will take a disproportionate amount of the load, decreasing overall strength and stiffness while reducing durability.

It's not bad stuff, I will use it sometimes if it's available for free or very cheaply, its just not the ideal choice.

amellrotts said:

Jon Soller is a GREAT guy to deal with and really knows his stuff. Prices are as good as any I've seen and much better then the other links in this thread....

https://www.sollercomposites.com/

Click to expand...

Good stuff, good to deal with, and they always ship fabrics on a roll.

I use Soller Composites for CF cloth https://www.solarcomposites.com/composites/compositecarbon.html#1K These folks have much better prices than most vendors.

ACP Composites for plates made to my specs, and some stock tubes https://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php

and Carbon Fiber Tube Shop for most CF tubes https://carbonfibertubeshop.com/

CF/Kevlar fabrics are used in applications where ballistic protection is required. CF composites are very strong but stiff and brittle so it is not ballistic penetration resistant. Kevlar composites are very ballistic impact resistant because in addition to being very strong, they are not brittle and will deflect far more than CF composite plates and therefore prevent ballistic penetrations. CF/Kevlar is a hybrid with the best properties of both: tt is both strong and penetration resistant at the same time, however it tends to be more expensive than either CF or Kevlar cloth.

Bob

Carbon/kevlar fabrics are much better used in minimum diameter rockets in my opinion. In my experience making tubes, the outcome is a much lighter tube, thanks to the kevlar's lighter density. You get the benifits of strength, impact resistance and lightweight.

Since minimum diameter rockets are intended for speed. Carbon/kevlar should be the way to go.