Public Missiles CPR?

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noffie79

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PML is a brand I'm not very familiar with. I know their CPR system uses Missile Works CoPilot altimeters, but other than that, I don't know much. I have an opportunity to purchase a PML Eclipse at a pretty good price, pre-built. Can anyone chime in with their opinions on the CPR system? Pros and Cons?
 
Some people love PML's CPR, piston designs, Quantum tube, etc. But some don't like their innovations/deviations. I believe in the CPR there have been concerns expressed regarding strength as plastic pieces are used to hold recovery forces. Yet many have used it successfully on numerous flights. One thing you cannot argue with is that PML is a premier supplier that always provides high quality components shipped quickly. So, in short, you are likely going to get a wide variety of conflicting opinions leaving you to evaluate yourself (https://publicmissiles.com/secure/components.asp?groupid=26) and possibly take a chance and see.
 
I went on a binge one time after an Aerotech bonus delay (I thought) cost me a rocket. As I got more experienced it's amazing how much better the Aerotech delays got!
Anyway, I ended up putting CPR 2k systems into four or five rockets that I had at the time. They perform well, but as an engineer I realized one thing about the design. The cast urethane pieces that screw to the PML branded Missileworks altimeter are not structural. They seal with o-rings into a PML provided piece of 38mm phenolic tubing. An aluminum adapter is epoxied on one end of the phenolic tubing. You put the assembly of the altimeter and two urethane castings into the phenolic tube and then screw another threaded aluminum piece to the aluminum piece trapping the larger urethane casting between the two aluminum coupling pieces.
The trouble is the way the tapered aluminum piece is epoxied to the phenolic tube up against a centering ring. If the phenolic breaks between the aluminum piece and the the centering ring your altimeter becomes a structural member. It only happened once to me.
There are two solutions. The easiest is to replace that brittle phenolic 38 mm tube with a G10 tube.
The other way, which in my opinion is the way PML should have designed it, is to turn a rebated shoulder on the tapered end of the aluminum female half and enlarge the hole in the centering ring so the coupler half epoxies into the centering ring.
Personally, I like the CPR. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to someone who wants a small diameter dual deployment system but doesn't yet have the experience to design one from scratch.


[emoji1010] Steve Shannon [emoji1010]
 
I bought a PML 4" Endeavour with the CPR3000. It worked well for several years/flights. Quantum tube. A rough landing on a cold day (too cold for QT) broke one of the tubes. I used that opportunity to strip out the CPR system and use a conventional AV bay to start playing with dual altimeters prior to building my L3 rocket and subsequent flight. I still have the CPR aluminum couplers that are very well secured to the 38mm tube. The QT peeled right off the outside of the centering rings with a little effort, but held fine during flight. I guess if one was interested, I would offer them up if they wanted to pay shipping...

Adrian
 
While Steve is correct regarding the coupler version of the CPR system, if you are just using it as a altimeter holder then it's a bit simpler. When I first started flying 15 years ago, PML kits were one of the few brands that were readily available and had good instructions for newcomers to the hobby. I bought a Sudden Rush for my L1 flight which used the PML CPR system to hold the altimeter. I really liked that system and have standardized it across my fleet - from 54mm to 7.5" N powered beasts. One thing I do differently is use a screw switch that does not require external wires. There is just a hole drilled in the ebay to allow access to the screw. The same hole also acts as the baro vent.

I've done dual deploy two ways - in large diameter (6" or greater) I can put two of the CPR mounts side by side, in smaller diameters I just use a 38mm tube long enough to hold two altimeters.

While I had decent success with their piston system, if you build it as they instruct it can fail. And Quantum tube is ok for smaller diameters but I don't think it holds up well in larger diameters or longer tubes.

The biggest problem with buying a built kit is that you are relying in the skills of someone else. Somehow I ended up with a bunch of rockets someone else had built and kept in their garage in the Texas heat. While they looked fine on the outside, the epoxy in the inside and become extremely brittle and even had shrunk a bit. Some fins I could pull right out with just a bit of wiggling back and forth. The other issue is that G10 (and Quantum tube) need to be properly prepared for Epoxy to bond well and if not done the joints can be very weak.

I"ve bought and flown several rockets built by others and have generally had good luck. But it's always good to be able to inspect first and talk to the builder to make sure you know what you are getting.

Good luck,


Tony
 
Thanks for all of the feedback guys. One thing I'm a little concerned about is the rubber o-ring seals. Rubber breaks down over time, especially when subjected to extreme heat. Has anyone experienced these seals failing, allowing ejection gases to enter the av-bay and compromise the altimeter?
 
I replace the o-rings after every other flight and even PML will admit if you don't replace them, they will leak thru.
 
Thanks for all of the feedback guys. One thing I'm a little concerned about is the rubber o-ring seals. Rubber breaks down over time, especially when subjected to extreme heat. Has anyone experienced these seals failing, allowing ejection gases to enter the av-bay and compromise the altimeter?

You are supposed to replace them. PML sells packs of them. They're inexpensive insurance.
 
While Steve is correct regarding the coupler version of the CPR system, if you are just using it as a altimeter holder then it's a bit simpler. When I first started flying 15 years ago, PML kits were one of the few brands that were readily available and had good instructions for newcomers to the hobby. I bought a Sudden Rush for my L1 flight which used the PML CPR system to hold the altimeter. I really liked that system and have standardized it across my fleet - from 54mm to 7.5" N powered beasts. One thing I do differently is use a screw switch that does not require external wires. There is just a hole drilled in the ebay to allow access to the screw. The same hole also acts as the baro vent.

I've done dual deploy two ways - in large diameter (6" or greater) I can put two of the CPR mounts side by side, in smaller diameters I just use a 38mm tube long enough to hold two altimeters.

While I had decent success with their piston system, if you build it as they instruct it can fail. And Quantum tube is ok for smaller diameters but I don't think it holds up well in larger diameters or longer tubes.

The biggest problem with buying a built kit is that you are relying in the skills of someone else. Somehow I ended up with a bunch of rockets someone else had built and kept in their garage in the Texas heat. While they looked fine on the outside, the epoxy in the inside and become extremely brittle and even had shrunk a bit. Some fins I could pull right out with just a bit of wiggling back and forth. The other issue is that G10 (and Quantum tube) need to be properly prepared for Epoxy to bond well and if not done the joints can be very weak.

I"ve bought and flown several rockets built by others and have generally had good luck. But it's always good to be able to inspect first and talk to the builder to make sure you know what you are getting.

Good luck,


Tony

I had forgotten about the other CPR system. I liked its design also, very much. I didn't use it, although I have parts for a redundant one from an old endeavor. I always planned to somehow make a carrier board to screw to the altimeter mounts so I could mount other altimeters.
Thanks for the reminder! I agree.
 
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One of my first rockets had the CPR system. One thing I learned quickly was to replace the phenolic tubes with fiberglass. Hawk Mountain still lists an upgrade kit. I would be more inclined to get the rocket if the original builder made that upgrade. The other issue with the design, as mentioned earlier, is the external switch. It's just waiting to be turned off by a harness during the descent. A screw switch on the altimeter board is a better idea. I also vaguely remember making some significant modifications to the seals. I can't remember what I did, but I obviously thought it was needed.

Jim
 
I'm glad that PML offers replacement seals. Very cheap insurance indeed. And as someone else mentioned, the external switch is another concern. I'm not sure if the original builder made the upgrade to FG or not, I'll have to find out. This isn't a done deal and I haven't purchased it yet, but I really appreciate everyone's input. Still have more research to do.
 
I pulled my switch off after 1 flight. It's a cheap switch and easy to turn off or on. I just twist & tape the wires now.
 
I glass the inside of the coupler tube and have not yet had a failure of the phenolic. One note, I replaced my beloved Sudden Rush a while back and the new one came with FG altimeter tubes. As to the switch, I found a flush slide switch that fits in the shallow channel betwixt the BT and the altimeter. There is no way it can be bumped off. To ensure that, I put a piece of tape over it right after I turn it on. Early On (with the older switch, I would trim the lever back a bit, and put a wrap of tape around the bod to keep it from sliding.
 
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