I am switching to Titebond II

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BRS Hobbies

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I am switching to Titebond II since I am getting too much shrinkage and bubbles with Elmers Carpenter's Wood Glue Max. Not sure if Elmers changed the formula but even after 2 or 3 coats with dry time in between, still have bubbles.

Best regards,
Brian
 
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Titebond II also shrinks and can bubble. I use it for most paper/wood fastening, and find it to be great.

For fillets I use Titebond No Run-No Drip and for engine mounts (if it's the sort likely to seize) I'll use epoxy. If I need something to be more sandable I'll use old-style carpenter's wood glue.

Above applies to LPR only (so far).
 
Titebond IS a better glue, and like Neil said, you can still get bubbles/pits in your fillets. Since I already keep Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty around, I've been using it to cover all that up. Just a little sanding with a round sanding dowel makes a nice curve in the fillet.
 
I had meant to write in over the weekend...I just switched from Titebond II to Titebond III, and I had a lot *less* shrinkage with the III than with the II. I noticed this as I was putting in my rear thrust ring after doing all the internal & external fillets. I had two 4" rockets, and was sanding the centering ring, and what fit in the Titebond III rocket aft easily was not going in at all on the Titebond II aft.

Looking at the rockets, I could visibly see tightening and shrinking by the fins on the Titebond II rocket...so for me, Titebond III is the new winner.

HTH!
 
Does Titebond III have any downside relative to II? I vaguely recall reading about such when I started using II, but I can't remember what it might have been.
 
ALL solvent-based glues will shrink as they cure/dry. I built a Fat Boy several years ago, and poured in a fairly thick layer of glue on the top centering ring. I was puzzled by the "pucker" that developed in the body tube, until I realized it was from the glue. Treat this as two separate problems - the structural one - gluing the fins on and making fillets, and the cosmetic one - covering up pinholes and unevenness. Perhaps two separate solutions?
 
Titebond or Elmer's variants are not solvent-based. They are water-based polyvinyl acetate (PVA) formulas.
 
I am getting a lot of bubbles and shrinking even after several applications of the Elmer wood glue with at least 24 hours of dry time between coats. The glue lines are really smooth on some removable motor mounts that I made 5 years ago with just one or at the most two applications of wood glue. I am convinced that something has changed with the Elmers wood glue, I plan on trying Titebond to see if it performs any better.

Best regards,
Brian
 
Titebond or Elmer's variants are not solvent-based. They are water-based polyvinyl acetate (PVA) formulas.

You are correct all Elmer's, Titebond, & Aleen's glues are all water based PVA formulas. Every one of them SHRINK during curing. Gorilla Wood glue works exactly the same way when confined inside body tubes with centering rings. As any of these glues cure they well shrink and create depressions.

Titebond-II is about equal to Elmer's Yellow carpenters glue. Both will still shrink in confined spaces but just about any "Glue" will. Titebond-III should not be used for motor mounts as it sizes very quickly not allowing time to get the mount in the position it should be. TBIII is fine for fins but is subject to shrikage and air holes just like all the others.
Personally I still stay with Elmer's Yellow carpenters glue because I do alot of woodworking anyway so I have the stuff in Gallons. For experimentation I buy and try any and all glues that come out just to be sure something better hasn't been developed. So Far none have been.
Double glue joints can and do work with any of the above mentioned "glues". Best is the one you become most comfortable using. If you are set on using a wood glue for rocket building, I'd for sure recommend sticking with Elmer's Carpenters glue for any interior gluing. Elmer's Glue-All or plain old White School Glue for everything outside, Fin's, Launch lugs, fillets and such.
 
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On my Estes (LPR and PSII) I do gorilla wood glue (though I assume any other PVA would work) for initial attachment using a double glue joint, and then also for a layer of "structural" fillet without worrying about form or bubbles.

Then I tape mask and use titebond no run, no-drip (formerly TMTG) for "finish" fillets for looks. I pull these fillets with a plastic spoon for shaping ... one pass is ideal.
 
On my Estes (LPR and PSII) I do gorilla wood glue (though I assume any other PVA would work) for initial attachment using a double glue joint, and then also for a layer of "structural" fillet without worrying about form or bubbles.

Then I tape mask and use titebond no run, no-drip (formerly TMTG) for "finish" fillets for looks. I pull these fillets with a plastic spoon for shaping ... one pass is ideal.

Gorilla Wood Glue, Elmers Wood Glue, and Titebond I, II, III are all variations of the similar PVA glues with an aliphatic resin additive, and all have nearly the same capabilities and issues. I use TBII (I buy it by the gallon) for nearly all my woodworking projects, and so it gets used for nearly all my rocketry projects needing a bond between paper and wood products. For paper to paper bonding I use Elmers Glue-All white glue (not School Glue, though I am not sure of the differences between the two white glues, except maybe toxicity of certain chemicals).
 
Could it be possible that the newest Elmers Carpenter's wood glue has more water in it than previous formulations which could lead to more shrinkage?

Does the Titebond No Run No Drip shrink much?

Best regards,
Brian
 
The no-run no-drip shrinks very little. I'm trying to figure out how to post a link to a thread I have on my leviathan build using the technique I described but can't figure it out :(
 
Thank you for the information. I am going to try the Titebond No Run No Drip for fillets. It seems to be just the product that I am looking for.

Best regards,
Brian
 
Could it be possible that the newest Elmers Carpenter's wood glue has more water in it than previous formulations which could lead to more shrinkage?

Does the Titebond No Run No Drip shrink much?

Best regards,
Brian

TB NRND (the glue formerly known as TB TMTG) is really a thick version of the TB glues, it does still shrink but is great for fillets because you can do all of them on a rocket at one time, I then leave the rocket in a horizontal orientation to dry. It makes excellent MPR and LPR fillets.

BigDaddy4.jpg
Its not a very good shot of the fillets on my Big Daddy, but they are visible, iirc it was two coats of glue.
 
Thank you for the information. I am going to try the Titebond No Run No Drip for fillets. It seems to be just the product that I am looking for.

Best regards,
Brian

I have not used the newer "No Run, No Drip" glue, but the label says its for trim and molding. I have a bottle of Titebond Trim and Molding Glue, and it is great for fillets. It neither runs nor drips, and it also produces no bubbles. I suspect it may have been replaced by the No Run, No Drip glue.
 
I have not used the newer "No Run, No Drip" glue, but the label says its for trim and molding. I have a bottle of Titebond Trim and Molding Glue, and it is great for fillets. It neither runs nor drips, and it also produces no bubbles. I suspect it may have been replaced by the No Run, No Drip glue.

It works great!! Use your regular glue fillets but go over them with the no run no drip
 
Whats the self life on TB II? I was looking at mine and its looking a little thick and lumpy

Shelf life for TBII is about two years, however it can be re-mixed when it starts to separate into a yellow and a darker color. If the glue is a bit thick, it can be mixed with some water to thin about 5% water by weight or volume. The information given is from Titebonds websites FAQ. If the glue has turned a dark yellow orange (like the above darker color only lots of it) its probably time to get rid of it.
 
Titebond or Elmer's variants are not solvent-based. They are water-based polyvinyl acetate (PVA) formulas.

and water is the solvent.
edit.
oops, didnt se the reply.
yup, no hydrocarbon rocket science stuff needed for a simple h2o based glue.

all glues that have evaporation drying will have some shrinkage.
 
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I also like using the Titebond Translucent.

For fillets, I have gone to Harbor Freight Wood Glue. It works just like the No Run, No Drip/Molding and Trim glue, but is a heck of a lot easier to find.

To reduce the pucker factor on the motor mount-to-body tube joint, I use Elmer's Glue-All. I've found it shrinks less than the wood glues and isn't near as grabby.
 
Just a quick note with my own experiences:

I prefer Elmer's Carpenters' Wood Glue for fins. I find it shrinks A LOT and this shrinkage pulls the fin tight to body tube. Such fins are just about "zero wiggly back and forth" once dry, even without fillets. Using identical technique with Titebond II produces bonded fins that wiggle a bit if you push on them side to side.

I use the Titebond II in places I want less shrink, like centering rings and such, to avoid the "wasp waist" effect the Elmer's Carpenter's will give.

For fillets I use the Titebond No Run No Drip formula. Shrinks relatively little, gives great smooth fillets.
 
It turns out that it wasn't the Elmers Carpenter's Wood Glue Max that was the problem with the shrinking but the technique. I was just smoothing the fillets with my finger and was getting a lot of shrinking and bubbles. I tried laying Tamiya masking tape on both sides of the fin joint and then apply the wood glue. Let the glue soak for a minute or two and then remove the tape. The end result is some really nice fillets. I am not exactly sure why the results are so much better but they are and the Elmers Wood Glue seems to work just fine when used this way for fillets.

Best regards,
Brian
 
I'd still recommend you nab a bottle of TB No Run No Drip if you can find it and try it out. It is the easiest filleting glue for LPR, and because it doesn't run (at all) you can do all your fillets at once, pretty quickly. They also have a newer "Quick and Thick" variety which is the same thing just clearer.

Taping certainly does guarantee the neatest fillet edges, although I usually don't bother for LPR.
 
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