Saturn 1B - 1/23 Upscale

grandcross said:

I have good ideas? Who knew?
You'll never catch me sucka! (At least not until the month and a half I spend in Asia)
Seriously glad to see you back. I've missed your updates.

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LOL - Who said the "Space Race" is over !? :wink:

Press on!

[video=youtube;LPRci2BFTMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPRci2BFTMc[/video]

SinfulDarkLord said:

Glad to see your back, I was getting worried. Awesome work on that transition. Keep it up man.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Roger Wilco.

that looks awesome!! Glad to see your 1b is back in production!

MaxQ said:

Took a two month break to get back into RC flying while the flying season is active...(got to keep those thumbs in practice for the next two projects, but that's another story).
Unfortunately one of our RC clubs lost their field this season to development, and we had to pull together find another replacement field and move all the structures, sheds to the new site and grade and grass the new field - but that's another story as well.

Upside is, this break allowed me some time to think some things over on this build before proceeeding, and also watch grandcross (Dave) proceed on his Saturn 1B project, and steal some of his better ideas. :lol:
He's moving along, and I'll be tackling that dreaded fin can ring and fins myself soon.

Anyway, after struggling with the main airframe shroud template to fabricate the part that will connect the service module/command module to the main airframe, I finished the internal bracing, test fit the mylar transition template over the internal transition bracing, made registration marks for the overall length, and proceeded to cut fiberglass.

Did the first heavy FG layup ont the transition, test fit that on the CF main airframe - with the excess length at the bottom - marked that, and did the second FG veil lay up last night.

View attachment 304120 View attachment 304116 View attachment 304117

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Looks like I won't be posting for awhile, my Nikon digital camera decided not to work anymore.

Turn it on and the lens will not extend...no picture - keeps flashing a "remove lens cap message" .
There is no lens cap on the camera.

Sounds like you need to buy one of those keychain cameras, and then stand on a step ladder so that it looks like the photo was taken from a rocket! :wink:

grandcross said:

Sounds like you need to buy one of those keychain cameras, and then stand on a step ladder so that it looks like the photo was taken from a rocket! :wink:

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After trying everything I could do to free up the zoom lens on my digital Nikon P90, including disconnecting all power and recharging the battery - I started making some calls and looking for a Nikon repair place.
There are only two on the east coast I could talk to - Atlanta and NYC.
In the meantime, I took it to a local camera shop...news was not good.
The zoom lens is off track, and there is no local repair, so I called the recommended independent Nikon service center in Atlanta GA.
Long conversation short : repair of digital cameras over 7 years old are not supported, and even if they were, the whole lens has to be replaced.
If they had a lens on hand (and they don't) the repair bill would come to over $400.
I can buy a new camera for less.
Shopping for a new camera.

I don't know how I've missed this thread! This is amazing work here! You have to give plenty of notice when you are ready to launch. I want to be there for it's inaugural flight! I really love your Little Joe II, but this is just amazing to me! Sorry to hear about your camera. Maybe a black friday sale can help solve that? I will be following this thread from now on as you progress.

kcobbva said:

I don't know how I've missed this thread! This is amazing work here! You have to give plenty of notice when you are ready to launch. I want to be there for it's inaugural flight! I really love your Little Joe II, but this is just amazing to me! Sorry to hear about your camera. Maybe a black friday sale can help solve that? I will be following this thread from now on as you progress.

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Hey Thanks Kevin. Got a lot to do yet....may fly it at Culpeper - or perhaps at LDRS/MDRA spring 2017.
Scale is my interest, and scratch building is my thing.
Finding that niche between lightweight and reasonable high power - w/o going too overboard on structure is the design problem on most of these projects.
Eventually I'll get around to a Level 3, but been I've been having too much fun with these projects, and cluster motors - rather than using one very big one.
Did a Mercury Little Joe awhile back.....same idea.



Then - I bought this really BIG resin mercury capsule on a lark, thinking maybe a really BIG Mercury Little Joe would be cool to do. That's another story....
[

Jim,
That's pretty cool! It's always worth picking things like that up, because you know you'll eventually use them. At least in your case...you have. I still have a few of those eventualities laying about here and there. Speaking of clusters, I'd like to sit and chat with you at the next launch. I've not ventured there yet and know you are doing it, so the right guy to watch and learn from.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

Kevin

BEAUTIFUL little Joes!! awesome work!

MaxQ said:

Hey Thanks Kevin. Got a lot to do yet....may fly it at Culpeper - or perhaps at LDRS/MDRA spring 2017.
Scale is my interest, and scratch building is my thing.
Finding that niche between lightweight and reasonable high power - w/o going too overboard on structure is the design problem on most of these projects.
Eventually I'll get around to a Level 3, but been I've been having too much fun with these projects, and cluster motors - rather than using one very big one.
Did a Mercury Little Joe awhile back.....same idea.
View attachment 305999


Then - I bought this really BIG resin mercury capsule on a lark, thinking maybe a really BIG Mercury Little Joe would be cool to do. That's another story....
View attachment 305998

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kcobbva said:

Jim,
That's pretty cool! It's always worth picking things like that up, because you know you'll eventually use them. At least in your case...you have. I still have a few of those eventualities laying about here and there. Speaking of clusters, I'd like to sit and chat with you at the next launch. I've not ventured there yet and know you are doing it, so the right guy to watch and learn from.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

Kevin

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I've done some clustering with various methods......both old school and new, and some BP and high power composite motor staging.
I'm still learning. If I was better on the electronics side I would be doing better with it - but lots of fun to tinker with.

You and the family have a nice Thanksgiving as well.

NJRick said:

BEAUTIFUL little Joes!! awesome work!

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Someday we'll all have to get together and do a group picture, Saturns from the tiny to the large...

that's a great idea!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family!

MaxQ said:

Someday we'll all have to get together and do a group picture, Saturns from the tiny to the large...

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Looks good, your transition structure with foam stringers and a shroud looks exactly like what I do on my large foam rockets.

Frank

burkefj said:

Looks good, your transition structure with foam stringers and a shroud looks exactly like what I do on my large foam rockets. Frank

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Thanks Frank.
Been watching and learning from you.

Well, Christmas came early and I got a new digital camera....so, where was I on this......

So, I had an interesting experience recently on this one.
I took the route Dave did and decided to have the fin core material cut rather than mess with that (I don't have a full shop with power tools).

While waiting for the fins to be cut per my CAD drawing, I took a stab at doing some finish work on the CM/SM.
The SM component is a CF tube and I had some nice thin plastic sheets that would be just perfect for doing surface paneling on the SM...or so I thought.
Even thought I could save a step or two - skipping the need for sanding and filling before adding all the little panel details.

Figured I would cut the sheets and use a spray adhesive like they are doing with the plastic corrugated wrap that comes with the re-release of the Centuri/Estes Apollo Little Joe II kit that is being discussed on another thread.

Cut the plastic sheets, sprayed on that adhesive and laid them on the SM...looked like I would fer sure be able to proceed to gluing on all the SM detailing, panels etc.

Well.....
Came back a few hours later and watched the slow agonizing destruction of the panels.
It slowly went from a slight curdling of the surface to a complete disintegration of the plastic sheeting as I tried to pull the plastic sheeting off.
Worse yet, I now had to deal with what to do with the mess that heavy adhesive left on my nice CF part.
Pictures pretty much tell the story.


The plastic wrap as supplied with the new Centuri/Estes Little Joe II kit is ABS.
While there was much handwringing over on that Little Joe II build thread as to how there are very few cements that would work on ABS plastic...the recommended spray adhesive (3M 90) does just fine on the ABS wrap...but not on styrene (as I found out unfortunately).
Stupid me.
That spray adhesive solvent was way too hot for styrene.

After pulling the plastic panels of the SM, and looking over the residual spray adhesive mess, I decided I'd be much better off letting the adhesive mess cure and harden, rather than wash this thing with a solvent and ruin it entirely.

So after the adhesive goop hardened, I took the most abrasive sandpaper I could find and had at it for an afternoon (yes Dave, Rocketry IS mostly sanding - :lol.

Here is the before and after picture , the second picture with much wood filler added over the sanded down hardened adhesive mess in an attempt to try and recover a reasonably smooth working surface on the SM.

The LES nozzles will need an internal component under the LES skirt to attach to, but that's for later.

Postman arrived with the fins this evening. Time to trial fit the fins.

So the fins were accurately cut to my dimensions and they fit perfectly...seat nicely on the central motor core.
I had a bunch made.

These will get a foam and carbon fiber layer as I proceed after test fitting.
I'll be cutting the slots in the CF fin ring and test fitting components on that part this weekend.

I like that picture you have on in the background! would have made me sick to watch the SM panels disintegrate like that bit looks like you are on your way to a nice save

MaxQ said:

The LES nozzles will need an internal component under the LES skirt to attach to, but that's for later.
Postman arrived with the fins this evening.

View attachment 306932

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this fins look amazing! beautiful!!

MaxQ said:

So the fins were accurately cut to my dimensions and they fit perfectly...seat nicely on the central motor core.
I had a bunch made.

These will get a foam and carbon fiber layer as I proceed after test fitting.
I'll be cutting the slots in the CF fin ring and test fitting on that part this weekend.
View attachment 306931

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NJRick said:

I like that picture you have on in the background! would have made me sick to watch the SM panels disintegrate like that bit looks like you are on your way to a nice save

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I'll admit, I was a tad pissed. But my mistake...thought I could do a shortcut on the SM part - and it became a setback.
I think I can recover...both figuratively and literally speaking....maybe with something I can lay on and just primer and then get on with the build.

I had many fin core parts made by two different RC plane kit cutters - anticipating a mistake or two
Have enough to goof up or maybe use some for testing the fin/foam/CF procedure.
There is an extended fin tab that fits nicely between all the tank tubes and hits the core motor tube dead on - which I can credit to careful dimensioning on paper with the scale drawing previously before putting in the fin order.
Both fin cutters did an excellent job and quickly.

This first test fit didn't show any problems getting all the fins inserted between the tube tanks ...not yet anyway.

I'll need to carefully think through the whole assembly procedure - this being a scratch build - and having no instructions - you pretty much have to anticipate each move well in advance, and not block access to other components that need to be installed later.
There is going to be a need to insert reinforcing from the central core tube to the individual tank tubes, sequential assembly of the four tubes that have an internal outboard motor first (they need the reinforced mount to the core tube) - then the other four tank tubes that basically have nothing inside them, other than an av-bay for the accelerometer airstarting device in one of them, with some conduit to the base of the outboards.

I am looking at this picture....WOW!! just beautiful and BIG!! just spectacular. LOL...I am working on my little Flis Kits 1b and I look at the scale of your rocket and its just amazing. My entire rocket is smaller than one of your fins! she is beautiful!

MaxQ said:

I had many fin core parts made by two different RC plane kit cutters - anticipating a mistake or two
Have enough to goof up or maybe use some for testing the fin/foam/CF procedure.
There is an extended fin tab that fits nicely between all the tank tubes and hits the core motor tube dead on - which I can credit to careful dimensioning on paper with the scale drawing previously before putting in the fin order.
Both fin cutters did an excellent job and quickly.

This first test fit didn't show any problems getting all the fins inserted between the tube tanks ...not yet anyway.

I'll need to carefully think through the whole assembly procedure - this being a scratch build - and having no instructions - you pretty much have to anticipate each move well in advance, and not block access to other components that need to be installed later.
There is going to be a need to insert reinforcing from the central core tube to the individual tank tubes, sequential assembly of the four tubes that have an outboard motor first - then the tubes that have nothing inside, other than an av-bay for the accelerometer airstarting device in one of them, with conduit to the base of the outboards.


View attachment 306939

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NJRick said:

I am looking at this picture....WOW!! just beautiful and BIG!! just spectacular. LOL...I am working on my little Flis Kits 1b and I look at the scale of your rocket and its just amazing. My entire rocket is smaller than one of your fins! she is beautiful!

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If I could do just half the level of workmanship and scale detail you did on yours - it WOULD be spectacular....:wink:

MaxQ said:

I'll admit, I was a tad pissed. But my mistake...thought I could do a shortcut on the SM part - and it became a setback.
I think I can recover...both figuratively and literally speaking....maybe with something I can lay on and just primer and then get on with the build.

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I think I died a little inside when I saw that, but it looks like you're recovering nicely.

Personally, I know that is a measure of how much I've progressed as a rocket builder. I don't despair anywhere near as much as I used to when things don't work out as planned, because it's just another building challenge. Just take a moment and figure out how to make it work

grandcross said:

Personally, I know that is a measure of how much I've progressed as a rocket builder. I don't despair anywhere near as much as I used to when things don't work out as planned, because it's just another building challenge. Just take a moment and figure out how to make it work

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Amen.

Or, as they say..."Failure is not an option....."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tid44iy6Rjs
[video=youtube;Tid44iy6Rjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tid44iy6Rjs[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry55--J4_VQ

[video=youtube;ry55--J4_VQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry55--J4_VQ[/video]

After my wife retired for the evening, I got curious as to how this thing would look assembled.

I haven't built the parts that would hold the CF upper airframe tube in place, but I have enough of the internal structure to stack the parts and get a feel for the overall height.
My curiosity eventually got the better of me, so I figured - let's have a look.
There is only one place in the house the whole thing will even fit together and not hit the ceiling when assembled, - the stairwell.

I know it doesn't really show that well in the picture, - but I got to say I felt a little queasy just looking at this thing.
Maybe it was the late hour, ....or those pink curtains.

This is really going to look amazing when you are done. You deserve that after the setback you are overcoming!

kcobbva said:

This is really going to look amazing when you are done. You deserve that after the setback you are overcoming!

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Thanks man.
This is pushing the envelope for me.

Hey..... Kevin...you got a launch to get to tomorrow morning, isn't it past your bedtime ?
I kid I kid
It's past MY bedtime...the wife just called out..."Stop playing with those rockets!"