(2) F-104 Builds one mild and one wild

Decided to pick up where I left off. Motor mount is completed. Also mounted the retainer. Got the wings glued up. I like the hard wood strips. Its adds strength to the wings and other parts. I still need to sand the air foils in all the parts and then seal. I have some Aero gloss balsa filler and sanding sealer. Anyone know the shelf life on this stuff? The balsa filler (white) seemed to have settled at the bottle of the jar. You can stir it, but doesn't seem to want to mix too well. The sanding sealer seems OK. Kind of thick, but consistent. The nose weight that's included is 12 oz's. Seems like a lot of weight for this kit. I have a RS file but its off on the wing dimensions and stabilizers. Anyway not going to worry about that now.

Original Thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=126377

Picking up where you left off? Mind tossing us a link to the old thread?

K'Tesh said:

Picking up where you left off? Mind tossing us a link to the old thread?

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If I can find it I will...

I gotta tell ya, that seems like a lot of weight but we'll see. I'm looking forward to my build . I might just add some extra detail for kicks and giggles. I guess I need to be thinking about a paint scheme. No , No, I'm leaving the chrome silver to you. You are the master of paints my friend !! That said, if you would like a challenge---hmmmm !! Well you have a head start---lets say--- mid summer---I have no idea where to launch these days but what the hell, maybe out of state is good !!

Sounds like a plan...two F-104 fighter build threads at the same time...lets do this

Hornet - when you start your build make sure you document it from the beginning OK? I can't find my original thread? I know it's out there. I promised K'Tesh that I would find it or better yet you can do yours from the beginning. This weekend I'm going to start to airfoil my wings and other pieces. From there I'll be using aero gloss to fill the balsa and seal it. I'm going to take my time on this step and try to match them up perfectly if that's even possible???

If I have time I'm going to update the Rocksim file too.

hornet driver said:

I gotta tell ya, that seems like a lot of weight but we'll see. I'm looking forward to my build . I might just add some extra detail for kicks and giggles. I guess I need to be thinking about a paint scheme. No , No, I'm leaving the chrome silver to you. You are the master of paints my friend !! That said, if you would like a challenge---hmmmm !! Well you have a head start---lets say--- mid summer---I have no idea where to launch these days but what the hell, maybe out of state is good !!

Click to expand...

Silly airplane rockets require a lot of no good, stinking, performance robbing nose weight, more than you would at first think or even want to use. Fortunately the F-104 is almost a rocket design and will use less than other airplane designs. A nice long rod or rail, calm winds and a punchy, powerful motor. Then you can tweak the delay for more glide time, or pop pod that nose weight and fly her home. The F-104 makes a great rocket ship.

AfterBurners said:

Hornet - when you start your build make sure you document it from the beginning OK? I can't find my original thread? I know it's out there. I promised K'Tesh that I would find it or better yet you can do yours from the beginning. This weekend I'm going to start to airfoil my wings and other pieces. From there I'll be using aero gloss to fill the balsa and seal it. I'm going to take my time on this step and try to match them up perfectly if that's even possible???

If I have time I'm going to update the Rocksim file too.

Click to expand...

This one?
(2) F-104 Star Fighters arrived - Parts laid out for inspection
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=126377

Right on Steve...OK for those of you K'TESH check out the link below for the original start of my old thread I posted when I first got the (2) kits. I had screwed up on gluing the stripes and put th build on hold. Thanks to Hornet Driver he suggested a dual build thread so I said lets do it.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=126377

I didn't want to make the same mistake twice so I glued each piece one at a time to the designated areas on the wings and stabilizers (before I tried to sandwich the pieces and this didn't work well). This way I made sure that there was no movement during the glue process. When I trimmed the excess I started with an XACTO knife #11 and cut about half way through. I finished the cut with an XACTO saw (52T) and by doing created a clean accurate cut.

The bass is now more flush with the surface of each piece. There are some areas that will need some sanding, but not much. When I did it the first time the piece was off by so much that by the time I was through sanding the thickness would have been maybe just shy of 1/8" maybe 3/16". Too much of a difference.

Next up for me is sanding the surface of each piece and getting them level and smooth. I'll post the pictures when this step is complete.

The fun part will be sanding the airfoils.

Daddyisabar said:

Silly airplane rockets require a lot of no good, stinking, performance robbing nose weight, more than you would at first think or even want to use. Fortunately the F-104 is almost a rocket design and will use less than other airplane designs. A nice long rod or rail, calm winds and a punchy, powerful motor. Then you can tweak the delay for more glide time, or pop pod that nose weight and fly her home. The F-104 makes a great rocket ship.

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IDK? sounds like a lot of weight.

Cool! I have one too and would love to build this, so it's great you're continuing. No tacos this time!

BTW - Were you the one I sent the second F104 to? Chuck had sent me two when I ordered one and I was honest about it and told him. I then paid to ship it to the person who ordered two (Chuck offered to pay, but he was really cool about getting me some of his kits, so I didn't mind covering).

KenECoyote said:

Cool! I have one too and would love to build this, so it's great you're continuing. No tacos this time!

BTW - Were you the one I sent the second F104 to? Chuck had sent me two when I ordered one and I was honest about it and told him. I then paid to ship it to the person who ordered two (Chuck offered to pay, but he was really cool about getting me some of his kits, so I didn't mind covering).

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No I ordered (2) directly from Chuck. My friend never paid me for the kit so it's mine now.

AfterBurners said:

No I ordered (2) directly from Chuck. My friend never paid me for the kit so it's mine now.

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Actually, the person I shipped the second to had also "ordered (2) directly from Chuck"...Chuck just accidentally sent 1 to that guy and 2 to me. However I'm glad it's not you...shipping that kit from NY to CA would've cost a lot more. :wink:

Are you going with the silver? I wanted to do the same and I've spent a lot of time finding a good chrome paint that wasn't $100 and didn't smudge, but haven't been too successful (despite trying over a dozen chrome spray paints). The best chrome paints I had turned gray with all the clear coats I tried.

KenECoyote said:

Actually, the person I shipped the second to had also "ordered (2) directly from Chuck"...Chuck just accidentally sent 1 to that guy and 2 to me. However I'm glad it's not you...shipping that kit from NY to CA would've cost a lot more. :wink:

Are you going with the silver? I wanted to do the same and I've spent a lot of time finding a good chrome paint that wasn't $100 and didn't smudge, but haven't been too successful (despite trying over a dozen chrome spray paints). The best chrome paints I had turned gray with all the clear coats I tried.

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I'm still kicking around the paint scheme...silver is a cool color or I through something really wild on it. I'll decide after I build it. Paint is something that I come up with as I'm building....it adds personality to it. What ever color I put down you can bet it will be unique....of course Hornet Driver can throw down some colors as well. His work is outstanding. Above and beyond what I've ever seen.

Just wanted to throw this out there. I have an extra complete set of wings, vertical stabilizer and horizontal stabilizers that is laser cut for an F-104. The parts are cut from basswood, which of course will change the CG and CP, but can easily be adjusted according. I'll be posting pictures of the complete set in the Yard Sale section later this evening, so if you would like to build one of these kits here is your opportunity.

AfterBurners said:

Hornet - when you start your build make sure you document it from the beginning OK? I can't find my original thread? I know it's out there. I promised K'Tesh that I would find it or better yet you can do yours from the beginning. This weekend I'm going to start to airfoil my wings and other pieces. From there I'll be using aero gloss to fill the balsa and seal it. I'm going to take my time on this step and try to match them up perfectly if that's even possible???

If I have time I'm going to update the Rocksim file too.

Click to expand...

No problem, I'll document everything in detail. I do plan on "tweaking" it a bit. I just can't leave well enough alone !My work schedule has been stupid since before Christmas but looks to calm down in a couple weeks so this will be a nice diversion. Whoever gets to the paint stage first, let the other one know what your going to do so we don't duplicate. I'm going to keep mine military looking so the snazzy red and blue things are out the door for me. Looking forward to this----H

hornet driver said:

No problem, I'll document everything in detail. I do plan on "tweaking" it a bit. I just can't leave well enough alone !My work schedule has been stupid since before Christmas but looks to calm down in a couple weeks so this will be a nice diversion. Whoever gets to the paint stage first, let the other one know what your going to do so we don't duplicate. I'm going to keep mine military looking so the snazzy red and blue things are out the door for me. Looking forward to this----H

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I'm shipping the parts to you on Monday morning. Tomorrow my contract ends so I'll have some free time for this build, but the weekend I'll be busy around the house. Probably start Monday afternoon and do some sanding.

No I'm NOT a pothead :lol:

Sand and filler with Aero-gloss

Since I got home early today from work I decided to start block sanding the balsa pieces flush with the basswood strips. I used a T-handle with 220 grit paper. This was the perfect choice. It's enough to knock the strips down and level the wood and smooth the balsa.



After completing the sanding, which really didn't take too long it's time for the Aero-gloss "Balsa Filler Primer" I've used this stuff before in the past and you can't beat the result, When you sand it doesn't make a mess and you get a nice buzzzzzzzzzzz......



After the pieces have their first coat on each side. I usually let one side dry about 45 minutes before flipping and doing the other side. Both sides are now done. There's no rush. Tomorrow morning I'll come back and block sand with some 320. The reason I'm doing this now is that if I waited after I sanded the airfoils, then the pieces wouldn't lay as flat and you could risk damaging the wood, because it's balsa it's soft. After I sand the airfoils I will go through the sand process, but lightly hand sand those areas.

All the pieces have been finished with Aero-gloss balsa filler. The result is a very smooth and chalky white finished.



Any imperfections I use a wood filler. Just started using this stuff. You apply it and its purple. It dries white when its cured and ready to sand. Sands like butter and not real messy.



After using the balsa filler I thought I would go over it with Aero-gloss sanding sealer. This didn't work that well for me. When it dries it doesn't dry smooth and it takes more sanding to get it smooth. I tried it on the vertical stabilizer, which I had (2). In all fairness I'm sure its probably me and not the product. Also I had the jar for a few years so maybe its past its shelf life IDK?? Maybe you're just suppose use it directly over the balsa, but I decided not to continue with it. I'm currently working on the extra piece.

I didn't forget about this thread...just spending time sanding the airfoils, which is time consuming. I'm taking my time to do it right and get it close to perfect if there is such a thing? I'll post some pictures soon of what I've done. Right now I'm rounding the leading edges on all the pieces and then I'll work on the trailing edges.

Well the first part of the airfoils are completed. Rounding or shaping the leading (basswood) edges and tips of each piece.

Steps 3 and 4



Doing this step I started with 220 grit using a T-handle sanding block I knocked down the edges on both sides at about a 45 degree angle, until they were about even (halfway down). Then I proceeded to sand the lower edge of that angle to where the basswood joins the balsa getting the rough shape outlined. I then used the foam rubber sanding block and sanded until I had the desire shape I wanted. The rubber conforms to the shape and it allowed me to make them very uniform. I finished the process with 320 grit, which really smoothed out the edges and made them like glass. I then blended the tips to where there were no distinct edges, but rounded them to a slight point. I spent a week off and on sanded these pieces, Basswood unlike balsa takes some time to sand.



The next step will sanding the trailing edges. This will make it look more like a wing. I wanted to post to thread and put up some pictures so you guys know I am working on it. Hopefully Hornet Driver will be adding some pictures of his build as well.

AfterBurners said:

Well the first part of the airfoils are completed. Rounding or shaping the leading (basswood) edges and tips of each piece.

Steps 3 and 4

View attachment 292413View attachment 292413

Doing this step I started with 220 grit using a T-handle sanding block I knocked down the edges on both sides at about a 45 degree angle, until they were about even (halfway down). Then I proceeded to sand the lower edge of that angle to where the basswood joins the balsa getting the rough shape outlined. I then used the foam rubber sanding block and sanded until I had the desire shape I wanted. The rubber conforms to the shape and it allowed me to make them very uniform. I finished the process with 320 grit, which really smoothed out the edges and made them like glass. I then blended the tips to where there were no distinct edges, but rounded them to a slight point. I spent a week off and on sanded these pieces, Basswood unlike balsa takes some time to sand.

View attachment 292419View attachment 292420View attachment 292421View attachment 292422View attachment 292423View attachment 292424View attachment 292425View attachment 292426

The next step will sanding the trailing edges. This will make it look more like a wing. I wanted to post to thread and put up some pictures so you guys know I am working on it. Hopefully Hornet Driver will be adding some pictures of his build as well.

View attachment 292427View attachment 292427

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Subscribed. Been waiting for it. Oz

Hey all, I got the parts from Dan a few days ago and just opened the box this morning. I'm very pleased, very high quality balsa !! --------This also gives me a chance to try out the new build area. Carl the turtle out grew his old enclosure so he took over the old build table and I've moved to the computer table, complete with 47 inch wall mounted monitor( great for displaying plans or research material) I've already decided to do a couple things to bring this kit a little closer to scale. First a trip to the hobby store for some hardwood and next order the other parts I need. I can see this is going to be a challenging build. Hornet

I'm looking forward to your version of the build HD. It should be outstanding as always!!!

After a quick PM, Dan and I have decided it made sense to put both builds on this thread.This will make it easier for the crowd to follow both builds at the same time and also see the different directions we will go. It should be fun. I need to get a few things to really get going but I started the planning stages tonight. As I said earlier I'm going to "try" to get it a little closer to scale. The first thing I did was pull up a couple of profile drawings and blow them up on my screen to actual size based on a 3 inch bt--- I next laid the wing over the drawing, it was pretty close and with the addition of a basswood strip on the leading edge and just a tick of shaping they should be good to go--The tail plane was another matter , it's a bit long.The vertical stabilizer is just about dead on balls------I'm liking this big screen already !

Nothing fancy about this step. Just glue the two pieces together. I made sure the pieces mated and they were close. I used Titebond II and made sure I used wax paper beneath the pieces so they wouldn't stick.



Upon closer look you can see a slight gap. I have no concern for this because it's pretty minor, so I'll just fill it in and sand smooth, but not only that this section of the stabilizer will be sanded back and tapered so I doubt it will be that noticeable. Keep in mine these are hand cut pieces, so the fit will not be exact, but can easily be cleaned up to look great!

If I really wanted I could have sanded the mating edges down and eliminate the gap, but if I did that I would also close the gap / slot where the vertical stabilizer attaches and then I would have to open that up to fit. I chose just to accept it and fill it in.

This is really a jam up kit!



Next I'll block sand the surfaces after I fill the gaps and then I'll start on the trailing edge tapers for all the pieces.

Anyway today I started on the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizer. According to the instruction it says to sand the trailing edge 3/4" to form the airfoil. When I draw the 3/4" you can see how much of the wing needs to be sanded. I know the diagrams aren't to scale or accurate, but if I sand that much my concern would be the strength of the piece. I can sand it no problem, but wanted your opinion. What would you do?

As you can see I just tried to match the leading edge. I can always sand more off, which is what I'll probably do and blend it a little more, but I can't put more on. So I'll wait to see what everyone thinks?

Thanks!

BTW - The small lines / grooves you see near the glue line were actually caused from test fitting the vertical stabilizer. No big deal because that area will be covered by the piece and glue into position.



Actually looking at this picture which I found on the first thread I posted it doesn't appear that the trailing edges are tapered that far back or should I say that defined? I think its just a matter of personal preference and what looks good.



Anyway still would like your feedback.

Yea, I was looking at the horizontal today. To be honest, I think they should have been thinner material. Bass wood on both leading and trailing edges would take care of the landing shock. But , We have what we have, I'll most likely sand mine a little thinner. I already almost screwed them up today but saved them !!

I got to work today on the wings/fins. Like I said before , I'm gonna do things a little different. The wing profile was off a bit but played well into the modification. While the span is correct , the leading edge needed more sweep. That being said, The sweep matched up perfect with the front slat seam. Instead of 1/4x1/4 bass strip I used 1/4x 1 inch bass. This allowed me to get the right sweep and the bass, once cut, was the same profile as the slat. I then cut some excess material off the back of the wing. You'll notice in the pics, my bass wood overlap is opposite of Dan's. Two reasons for this, first it saved me a precision inside cut and the 1/4 bass was perfect for the outboard slat seam-----As far as the tail plane is concerned, I almost screwed the pooch but saved them. They were a bit long to begin with, somehow I manged to cut the tips at a slight angle and did not notice it until I had already glued the bass on. I also clipped them a bit short( don't ask, I have no idea what happened), anyway, I trimmed the bass at the right angle and added another piece of 1/4 inch bass to the tip and then profiled them---Perfect !!---Over the next few days I'll be sanding these to shape and starting the fuselage surgery--oh boy !!