(2) F-104 Builds one mild and one wild

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Bill - Looking great! WE have a new family member. 2 month old Siberian Husky that my sister found that someone abandoned or dumped just last week...plus my project will be ending soon on Aug 5th so life has been keeping busy and not much "Rocket" time. Once the husky gets big I'll be taking her on some long walks and getting back into the shape I was.... who needs a gym membership when I have her. Her name is Sasha.... I had a husky before so I know what I'm getting into.

Half way through I was going OH NO! But if you've had a husky before than that's a good thing, they can be a handful !! Sammy my PerWolf is getting pretty old these days. In a couple years well get a wolamute to keep the Digs happy. This 104 is a real labor of love but worth it !I should have it wrapped up in a couple weeks but that's right in the middle of the burn season around here so a launch is unlikely until a few weeks later. I'll stay in contact with samb at DARS and if they are flying then I'll see if I can do a "heads up" with them. Later bud, looking forward for your build so we can compare !!--H
 
Half way through I was going OH NO! But if you've had a husky before than that's a good thing, they can be a handful !! Sammy my PerWolf is getting pretty old these days. In a couple years well get a wolamute to keep the Digs happy. This 104 is a real labor of love but worth it !I should have it wrapped up in a couple weeks but that's right in the middle of the burn season around here so a launch is unlikely until a few weeks later. I'll stay in contact with samb at DARS and if they are flying then I'll see if I can do a "heads up" with them. Later bud, looking forward for your build so we can compare !!--H

I promise I'll pick it up, but now it's on the temp burner. Definitely after this project ends I'll have some time on my hands.
 
Well, I gotta tell ya, I had not planned on anything being done today on the 104. We had folks coming over to put in granite counter tops in the kitchen and bathroom and that would mean putting the wolf and lab in a bedroom and keeping the wolf calm while it was going on and not taking out a door or two. Turns out she was pretty calm through the whole thing and I was able to sneak out of the bedroom to the patio and work on the second tip tank. I changed the process a little bit from the first one. Instead of cutting a square cross section I clipped the corners to give me an octagon to work with. The whole sanding to shape process went much faster(live and learn) !! The only problem I had was the dowel was a tick off center at the nose. In the end it was a non-issue since --like the other tank--it was a bit long , so it was cut off and filler used to make the tip. I was surprised how close I got it on the first try--the nose section still needs some profiling. Once that's done I'll epoxy the tank to strengthen it and go about the finishing process. I'll put the epoxy on tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow night I can be finish sanding--we'll see---H---20160718_175047.jpg20160718_175055.jpg
 
Some pics of the tank in process. This one went much smoother than the first ! First it got a coat of resin. After a couple of hours in 90+ heat it was ready to lightly sand and prime. That was followed by some glazing putty for the low spots and holes. That dried quickly(about 30 min.) and was wet sanded and re-primed.The fin cut outs were ready to go and were epoxied on later and the seam filled with yellow glue.--20160719_083631.jpg20160719_083647.jpg20160719_203638.jpg20160719_204533.jpg20160719_212423.jpg
 
After all that it was just a matter of painting and doing a dry fit. It's starting to look like something !--20160720_210951.jpg20160720_211002.jpg20160720_211023.jpg20160720_211040.jpg--There is still a lot of finishing work to do as well as choosing the chutes and getting the lugs on. I've contacted Mark(stickershock) for the decals and he is ready to go !! I will place my order after I post this. It will be Japanese but I'm putting my own twist on it. I gotta tell ya, not only is he one of the nicest guys but really puts his heart into the work he does, not to mention his work is outstanding !! Over the next couple days , I'm gonna mull over the lug/lugs placement. The kit has one large lug located on the base of the ventral. That position won't work for me since the fuselage has a tiny bulge just ahead of that position. That said , I'm a little uncomfortable with a rocket this big/heavy with one lug that far behind the CG. Also I'm not fond of my lugs being seen and usually hide them but in this case that won't happen and I need to make them look less noticeable and functional.Later,--- H
 
After all that it was just a matter of painting and doing a dry fit. It's starting to look like something !--View attachment 297430View attachment 297431View attachment 297432View attachment 297433--There is still a lot of finishing work to do as well as choosing the chutes and getting the lugs on. I've contacted Mark(stickershock) for the decals and he is ready to go !! I will place my order after I post this. It will be Japanese but I'm putting my own twist on it. I gotta tell ya, not only is he one of the nicest guys but really puts his heart into the work he does, not to mention his work is outstanding !! Over the next couple days , I'm gonna mull over the lug/lugs placement. The kit has one large lug located on the base of the ventral. That position won't work for me since the fuselage has a tiny bulge just ahead of that position. That said , I'm a little uncomfortable with a rocket this big/heavy with one lug that far behind the CG. Also I'm not fond of my lugs being seen and usually hide them but in this case that won't happen and I need to make them look less noticeable and functional.Later,--- H

What's this puppy tipping the scale at now ? You might want to reconsider rail buttons for this one; placement is more forgiving I think (but I still prefer one guide at or close to the Cg, whatever I use).

Lookin' sooo good !
 
I've thought more and more about buttons since the beginning of the build. That's really been nagging me to tell the truth. Which probably tells me I need to go that route. The fact of the matter is I was trying to use kit parts but I think your right and I should make the sensible call.
 
Sounds like the only way to hide a big old 3/8" or 1/2" lug would be to attach a tank or ordinance on the under belly.

Yea, I gave that a lot of thought . I considered the sidewinders but they are too far forward. The ventral is in the way of anything hung in the middle. Plus anything else I hang on it is adding weight !
 
Yeah, I just hate it when launch lugs or buttons get in the way of pure scale like looks. Could you build some sort of custom launch tower? Really big pop lugs? Just thinking out loud.
 
Can you mount the rail buttons offset left or right of the ventral enough to allow the rail to clear it? I'd put one button mid body and one more forward, whatever allows you to align them, even in the base of the nose cone, you could inset some hardwood and mount the forward button to that or just do two about 6" apart on the bottom offset from bdc.
 
Can you mount the rail buttons offset left or right of the ventral enough to allow the rail to clear it? I'd put one button mid body and one more forward, whatever allows you to align them, even in the base of the nose cone, you could inset some hardwood and mount the forward button to that or just do two about 6" apart on the bottom offset from bdc.

Right now that looks like the direction I'm going. One button just ahead of the ventral and offset a tick and the other just behind the CG.
 
So, as I had mentioned before, I wasn't happy with the paint on the rear fuselage. Basically the dark areas around the engine were too dark , so I decided to repaint. I masked things off and sprayed Rusto metallic silver over the dark areas and then sprayed Testors clear for metallics over that---20160721_161939.jpg20160721_161944.jpg. You would think THIS was going to be the problem but----NOOOO. Prior to this I disassembled the rocket , including the tip tanks , that I had laid in a nice secure spot on the bar stool. WAIT FOR IT , WAIT FOR IT!. Yea well, the wife was coming out of the kitchen and bumped the stool. She saw one of the pods fall and when she went to get it--CRUNCH !! She stepped on the other one, which just happened to be the last one I did. Cracked that baby right down the middle. As it turns out , using a dowel down the middle of the blank was a life saver. There was some fold damage to the top fin but all is easily repairable.--20160721_162030.jpg20160721_162046.jpg20160721_162105.jpg I'll just epoxy the crack and sand the fold damage. A little primer and paint and we should be good to go !! Funny thing is , I thought about permanently mounting the pods earlier and just didn't do it.Ah well, they still needed a little sanding anyway.
 
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Well, the fix is in and it came out ok. Still a little evidence of the fold on the fin but after a couple coats of paint I "should " be able to moist sand that out. If not , I'll go with it since it's really only visible when the light hits it just right.For some reason the pics don't appear on my card so I'll try a new one--boring stuff anyway.
 
After all that it was just a matter of painting and doing a dry fit. It's starting to look like something !--View attachment 297430View attachment 297431View attachment 297432View attachment 297433--There is still a lot of finishing work to do as well as choosing the chutes and getting the lugs on. I've contacted Mark(stickershock) for the decals and he is ready to go !! I will place my order after I post this. It will be Japanese but I'm putting my own twist on it. I gotta tell ya, not only is he one of the nicest guys but really puts his heart into the work he does, not to mention his work is outstanding !! Over the next couple days , I'm gonna mull over the lug/lugs placement. The kit has one large lug located on the base of the ventral. That position won't work for me since the fuselage has a tiny bulge just ahead of that position. That said , I'm a little uncomfortable with a rocket this big/heavy with one lug that far behind the CG. Also I'm not fond of my lugs being seen and usually hide them but in this case that won't happen and I need to make them look less noticeable and functional.Later,--- H

Go without lugs and build a fly away lug system. Less drag and no unsightly launch lugs.
 
I've pretty much decided to go with regular lugs. I've done heavier and bulkier rockets with no problems. I did get the weight in the nose cone. In the end I only needed three oz to get the CG where I needed it right at the leading edge where it meets the fuselage. On the original kit this point was almost three inches further forward as well as the rear fuselage being quite a bit longer,accounting for the 12 oz needed in the kit. Although I'm not sure all that weight would be needed. --3 oz of bb's-20160722_171440.jpg--the cone soaked in water to absorb heat from the epoxy--20160722_171422.jpg--and the balancing act--20160722_175300.jpg
 
Much of the difference in the weight distribution between my model and the kit were 1) a shorter rear fuselage and the loss of mass, 2) the motor is as far forward as possible, 3) the forward fuselage is about 1 inch longer. 4) My foam and glass cone was heavy at about 4 oz to begin with. The kit has the CG almost 6 inches ahead of the CP whereas mine is only 3 inches. The addition of recovery gear and hardware in the cone should move this forward a tick.
 
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So, how do you scratch build lugs and standoffs? First figure the size you need. In my case I needed something substantial with the rocket tipping the scales around two lbs. 1/4 inch id should be fine. I did have some 1/4 inch lug material laying around but it was cut into 1 inch sections--to short for my purposes. Plastic straws are a great way to go but they need to be reinforced. Not just any plastic straw but Arby's. They are a little stiffer than the over the counter stuff--gotta suck those frostys up--step one--cut the straws to the desired length--in my case, 2 and 1.5 inches. You want 2 pieces of each. step two--cut a slit down the middle of each. you should have a couple of long pieces of straw left over--THIS IS YOUR CORE. Next step put a little epoxy on the core and wrap one of the pieces around it and spin it to get the epoxy evenly spread--repeat the process with the other piece making sure the cut is 180 deg from the first. Let is set for a while. I needed stand offs because of the slight bulge in the rear end. 1/4 square tubing does the trick. It cradles the lug and gives a broad gluing surface on the bottom. Simply cut one side of the square tubing out and mount the lug to it with epoxy. Go back and make an internal fillet for strength--When dry just paint and install20160723_174451.jpg20160723_175726.jpg20160723_175847.jpg20160723_184111.jpg--make sure to sand the attachment area to the core material--20160723_184701.jpg--The plastic Arby straws are just a tiny, tiny bit bigger ID than standard 1/4 lugs and a colored pencil slides nicely through them for alignment purposes. The actual rod will be a little looser which I like--20160723_190809.jpg20160723_191040.jpg20160723_192534.jpg--I'll let this set overnight and then add some small fillet to clean it up--nice ,easy, strong ! I purposely used a standoff on the ventral fin. I felt like this was a possible stress area and the standoff gave me a better/larger glue area.
 
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On the list of final assembly items --clean up the tank attachment areas(small fillets)--fillet the lugs--decals(they are on the way)--install recovery gear(I need to get on this. Over the next couple days I'll figure out what size chute/chutes I want and get those ordered). --Final touch ups and clear coat--re-weigh, adjust as needed and plug the cone, add Eye bolt.--Install burner can in rear. So barring some unforeseen event, it should be wrapped up in about a week!! Later-H
 
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Just so there's no confusion... The straws are from Arby's. Frosty's are from Wendy's. :wink:

It's really looking good. The decals will complete the look I think.
 
Just so there's no confusion... The straws are from Arby's. Frosty's are from Wendy's. :wink:

It's really looking good. The decals will complete the look I think.

Oh my gosh , your right:facepalm: at any rate, use the Arby's straws. I should have the decals in a day or so.
 
So I'm sitting hear saying to myself--self I said" What sense does two chutes-one on either piece--make?" It seems that the chance of a partial recovery failure is a real risk as well as losing one of the two half's which would basically be a fatal blow to the project. At least in my minds eye, one larger chute makes more sense--am I missing something???---H
 
So I'm sitting hear saying to myself--self I said" What sense does two chutes-one on either piece--make?" It seems that the chance of a partial recovery failure is a real risk as well as losing one of the two half's which would basically be a fatal blow to the project. At least in my minds eye, one larger chute makes more sense--am I missing something???---H

I have used both methods and it has come down to space available and how heavy the nose is in comparison to the rest of the rocket. The more extreme, the more I tend to go with separate chutes.
 
I've had very good success with dual chutes putting the top chute in first so it pulls the other one out, I prefer thus with heavy nose cones.

Frank
 
I hear ya both! Right now I'm leaning towards a 36+ single chute. By the way the decals came today !!!!--Application was easy. Mark always does a superb job. --20160725_190601.jpg20160725_190620.jpg20160725_190652.jpg20160725_190657.jpg---As always I went with some sort of Wolf theme--20160725_190644.jpg--It was not exactly what I wanted--a little too scoutish--I knew that going in and am working on a little modifying to bring it in line with what I envisioned---20160725_195319.jpg--I'll play with it some more tonight and get the finished pics out later---H
 
Thanks Daddy. I needed to get to work on the burner can but was having difficulty coming up with something that fit the bill.I could use a bt but nothing really worked for the size I wanted and they just looked ,well, plain! The kit uses a wrap to get the illusion and I didn't much care for that. As it turned out I needed to go to the pet store to get "Carl the Turtle" a filter . There's an art store next door and I stopped in. I had forgotten about the wide selection of card stock available. I picked up a piece of corrugated card stock.--20160726_125745.jpg---next I coated the back side with some fg resin -I mixed it hot and it was dry in about ten minutes----20160726_130954.jpg---after about five minutes of fiddling around I cut a piece the size I needed and fit it in the rear housing--20160726_132934.jpg20160726_133249.jpg----OK, now that satisfies me!!--I painted it with Testor's titanium grey and glued it in place---20160726_134915.jpg20160726_155416.jpg20160726_155427.jpg--You'll also notice the finished wolf head----H
 
Thanks Buddy! Hey, I dug up some pics of my original "first choice" for paint and thought"ya know, that's right up Dan's alley" Eh, food for thought? --F-104-Starfighter-Aerospace1.jpgF-104-Starfighter-Aerospace11.jpg
 
I got a little done today. The plug and eye bolt are installed in the nose. I found these at Wally World and the work great to make plugs once laminated and sanded--20160727_184854.jpg-- I was going to put a foam plug in behind the ballast but after looking at it I decided it was not needed. --20160730_194327.jpg--Prior to this I went ahead and laid down some satin clear on the 104. First I sprayed clear gloss on the canopy area and let that sit overnight. That was masked off and the satin was applied to the 104. Originally I was going with flat . I could not find the Krylon matte Maxx at the store that I wanted and went with Rusto 2X. It took about a pass and a half and I said this ain't gonna happen. Thankfully, I had only sprayed the tip tank. The 2X just does not atomize well and would require a thick coat to look good---I'm not taken that chance !! I went to the shed and got a can of Krylon satin--( a better choice anyway)-- and hit the whole thing with that including the still wet Rusto areas. The Krylon really atomizes much smaller and dries quicker, of course you have to work a little faster but what the heck !--20160730_084141.jpg20160730_091357.jpg20160730_091408.jpg---These pics are just to show off the lines of the 104--not your basic BT and fins !!!20160730_130444.jpg20160730_130515.jpg20160730_130608.jpg---Pretty much the only thing left is to order the Chute. I looked at Fruity but they have priced themselves WAY out of my range so I'll go with with TF. The plan is --Texas winds permitting-- A DARS launch in about three weeks. I might have a window in a couple weeks at a friends property ---stay tuned--H
 
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