(2) F-104 Builds one mild and one wild

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Will the CG listed for the mild kit work with all your wild mods? OMG what have you done to the CP on this kit? Is it a kit bash or a full on kit spanking? Maybe into custom scratcher territory. I might consider moving the CG up a bit from the kit specifications. Or live a bit on the wild side and leave it where it is, what do I know anyway. I do hate all that no good, stinking, performance robbing nose weight!
 
So a couple of things are going on here at once. I had already masked of the canopy rails as a trial run and was pleased with the lay out. Instead of redoing the whole thing later I decided to go ahead and paint the canopy area black and at the same time spray a guide coat on the nose.I also sprayed a guide coat on the rest of the rocket but no sanding on that today--it should take several days. For those of you on a learning curve, a guide coat is simply a very light coat of paint sprayed over your final coat of primer. It should be a darker or lighter color than the primer and done at a distance(you just want little spots of paint all over the surface) . Next you sand until the guide coat is gone and your left with low spots to fill (guide coat visible) or high spots to knock down.As you can tell from the pics I still have a little work to do on the last couple inches of the nose but overall it's bang up !! When I was done sanding I pulled the remaining masking tape off the canopy area. Later when I paint , I should be able to mask the entire area off and have a nice clean line. Remember about a week ago this was just a block of Styrofoam. I'm really, really , happy with the way this assembly turned out !!--20160629_202738.jpg20160629_202746.jpg20160629_202755.jpg20160629_202802.jpg20160629_203126.jpg20160629_203137.jpg20160629_203156.jpg
 
I started sanding on the rest of the rocket today. I'm using a moist sanding approach. It's a little safer than wet sanding when paper and wood are involved. I should have the first wave of this done tonight. After that I'll fill and fix any little areas that need attention and repeat the process. I did get a bit rough with the vertical stabilizer and broke the mounting seam so I guess a little CA is in order for that followed by an epoxy seam. I didn't really under build this part as much as I over muscled it! To this point I don't have any really bad unexpected areas to fix, just little nicks and such.The process doesn't take that much time but with my on again off again schedule it could take a while to get where I want. OK . I know this stuff is boring but some folks out there are just getting started so consider this a lesson. I used a 320 grit sanding sponge to do most of the work so far . Any areas that needed extra work were hit with a 220 grit sponge sander and followed up with 320. 20160630_183817.jpg20160630_183826.jpg20160630_183828.jpg20160630_192227.jpg20160630_192232.jpg--Up to this point I'm pretty pleased with the direction of this build. There is still a lot to do and some surprises along the way so, STAY TUNED -H
 
Bill - I don't remember if you tackled the motor mount??

Yea it back around post 60-61-- not sure about that-- There was a problem loading pics but it was really nothing out of the ordinary except for the floating front ring. Thanks for the vote of confidence, this thing is a labor of love to be sure , but a fun challenge!!!
 
Well, inch by inch I'm making progress. One thing I did want on the model was to replicate those pretty little fairings at the base of the wing . They are a throw back to more elegant designs of the time and not found much these days--20160521_122309.jpg It was just one of those things that I had to have. Making these out of filler was possible but they are brittle and always crack or break so I opted to use card stock and fill around them. I cut some small triangles and CA'd them on followed by a coat of glazing putty--20160701_182153.jpg20160701_193108.jpg---this is after the first sanding--20160701_193813.jpg---one more coat of filler and sanded and primed---20160701_220835.jpg20160701_220851.jpg -I also took time to repair the crack at the base of the tail, A little CA and some sanding and I was good to go--20160701_194352.jpg--The trailing edge fairings are not perfect but they are a good representation and I'll go with it! Most of the pre-paint prep is done with only a couple of details left. I still need to mount the ventral fin and that was on the schedule for today but it seems I've managed to misplace it so I'll have to get some ply and re-cut a new one.I also need to mount the lug, but I'm giving some thought about that location which will be ahead of the kit location.Ah well, more later --H
 
Got a little bit done on the 104 today. The ventral is mounted and primed. I also ran an epoxy fillet along the base of the tail and around the horizontal tail. This should help make it a bit more impact resistant.---20160705_110026.jpg20160705_113406.jpg---20160705_105952.jpg20160705_110001.jpg I am rethinking the color scheme. It will be Japanese, They had several experimental schemes so I can play around a bit with it and maybe use some artistic embellishment. Later--H
 
So while things are drying I decided to dive into the weight/ballast needed on the rocket. Earlier I contacted Micromeister about his 104pmc"s. He was nice enough to share his CP/ CG values with me and they pretty much matched mine. I still was wondering about the 12 oz of ballast needed since mine only took 6 oz to balance out. My CG was a bit farther back than the kit but not much. HMMMM, Still not comfortable, I contacted Chuck a couple days ago and got some measurements of the prototype. Thank you both for taking the time to send me the info I needed. I asked Chuck for the measurements from the rear of the mmt to the wing root and the measurement from the mmt to the nose. Turns out mine ( because it's closer to scale) is 2 inches shorter from the wing root to the mmt, effectively pushing the CG forward as well as the CP though not as much. Also my nose is about an inch longer , again pushing the CG forward. I also shifted the tail unit back about an inch so the CP shift was a wash. CLEAR AS MUD? To bottom line it, The motor and its mass was pushed forward closer to all the fin units(more rockety) and the nose.also the nose was extended a tick. The recovery gear should be a non issue since it sits on the CG and is only a weight concern. I did pull the motor out 2 inches to try and mimic the balance point of the prototype and I needed 1.5 oz to balance it at MY CG which is behind the kit. this of course does not include the extra rear weight of a longer fuselage. So I'm pretty confident with my locations and will continue to zero in on them. I'm currently efforting where to put the lug. The kit has it on the base of the ventral fin. Which seem a bit far back but dose disguise it . That location will not work on mine with the up-swept rear. There's no good way to hide it and in Hind sight I might have used buttons--ah well, live and learn . THANKS AGAIN to Micro and Chuck for taking the time help me out. More later -H
 
I was going to air brush the 104 but decided to spray can it and maybe toss a lesson in with it. Most of the gang here spray can paint anyway so I figured this was a good chance to learn. That said, I'm going to do an unusual technique but the basics apply. This is the basic look we are going for--F104J_635_207SQ_841107.JPG-but I'll change some things up along the way since there were variations on this theme. I kept it simple and used Rusto's 2x grey and dark grey as a starting point. The plan is to lay a coat of light grey followed by a coat of dark and then moist sand the blend areas. This is a bit time consuming but can give you great results if done correctly. First I sprayed a coat of Light grey and right off the bat I had a problem. As I was spraying , the can began to spit and dry spray--I was already committed --so I cleared the nozzle-- and continued. I could hear the difference in the sound of the spray and had to clear the nozzle several times. SO FAR NOT IMPRESSED WITH 2X RUSTO !!! I did manage to get a wet coat over the dry areas and melt them down a bit--this might come back and bite me later. I came right behind and sprayed the dark grey--no problems with it. This was done outside in 90+ temps , so I applied the paint quickly and put down 2 coats of each color. I'll let this dry for a day or so and then begin to moist sand the blend lines. I did mask off the canopy area and the nose tip. This is where we are at. In a couple days I'll start the sanding and post pics. --20160707_185222.jpg20160707_185423.jpg20160707_185802.jpg20160707_191915.jpg20160707_194245.jpg- I'll sand this with 400 to 600 grit and touch up along the way. This should give me a good surface to apply decals to and later clear coat---In a few days it should be where I want it--if not--just re-do------H
 
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Let the sanding begin. These are pics of the 104 paint sanding/blending in progress. What you see represents about 2 hours of moist sanding. The blend lines will get finer as I continue and move to finer grit. The areas that dry sprayed earlier gave me a tiny bit of trouble but the majority of it was in an area that is going to be re-coated with a different color so I only had to get those areas smooth. All in all, I'm happy with the direction this is going. I'm off tomorrow and plan on tinkering with it throughout the day off and on. I am going to take a trip to Hobbytown in the morning and with any luck they will have some decals that I can use. If not, Mark will be getting a call from me. I'll also pic up a lug and get that installed before the final sanding. I know that seems late in the build but it was planned because of the paint process.---20160708_150730.jpg20160708_150734.jpg20160708_192607.jpg20160708_192614.jpg20160708_192631.jpg20160708_192645.jpg
 
Still moist sanding and painting. I did get the radom repainted and added the metallic to the rear portion. I'll have to break out the airbrush to get this where I want it. I used Model Master metalizer for these parts. Not especially impressed. That may be more due to technique than the product. still a ton of finish sanding to do but I think that's it for today.---20160709_121310.jpg20160709_121331.jpg20160709_140059.jpg20160709_140121.jpg
 
Beautiful work on both models guys :headbang:. Hornet Driver - Define for me your "Moist Sanding" technique, please. I've heard of wet sanding, though I've never really done it - water and balsa wood never seemed like a good idea, unless you wanted warped wood. Perhaps moist sanding isn't as worrisome.
 
Beautiful work on both models guys :headbang:. Hornet Driver - Define for me your "Moist Sanding" technique, please. I've heard of wet sanding, though I've never really done it - water and balsa wood never seemed like a good idea, unless you wanted warped wood. Perhaps moist sanding isn't as worrisome.
Moist sanding is simply a matter of using less water. In either case you must to have the wood sealed with paint or primer. In wet sanding , the surface is constantly given fresh water to wash it off. With moist sanding, you initially wet the surface and sand using only the moisture at hand until you begin to get a clay like build up. The sanded material acts like sandpaper as well. It takes some getting used to. When you get a little build up, wipe it of with a damp cloth and continue. The advantage in our case is your not putting the cardboard and wood under running water which might run into the bt or somewhere you should not get wet. You can target smaller areas if needed.
 
I just couldn't stay away. I decided to play with the rear fuselage area. Like I said before , I'll have to break out the airbrush to get this where I want it but I gave a shot at the rivets to see what I could do.I picked up some crochet material as a pattern. I knew the square holes would be a challenge but I think with a little sanding I can soften the effect and get the look I want. Remember I'm just trying to mimic the look not make a perfect scale model. I'll work on one side and decide if it's gonna fly--if not--have paint will travel !! Once I got the area painted I moist sanded with 1200 grit. I think more is needed but I'm gonna go slow on this part. We'll all know in a few days if this pans out. --20160709_140121.jpg20160709_205036.jpg20160709_205059.jpg20160709_221952.jpg---more later-H
 
More tinkering today. just detail stuff. this is the part of the build that things really slow down. Moist sanding the fake rivets with 400 and 1200 to soften them as well as the seams on the wings--still more to do on them. I'd like to weather the bird but in most cases the 104 was well taken care of, much like the 102 and 106. So any weathering I do will be minimal and more to give it depth than realism. I did pick up some lugs yesterday and I still need to build the tip tanks. I checked out Hobbytown for some decals and that was a no-go. They did have the supplies needed to make my own but I'm not ready to make that leap so Mark will be getting a call from me. Again, there is still a long, long, long way to go but here is where we are at---20160710_155419.jpg20160710_155427.jpg20160710_155438.jpg20160710_200716.jpg20160710_200746.jpg----moving forward, I'll post a little less so you can see the differences in progress a bit more plainly. Stay tuned--same Hornet time, same Hornet channel !!!---H
 
Got a little more detail done this evening,primarily on the wings. I had been handling this thing so much It needed a good cleaning and I decided to go ahead and get a couple of thin coats of clear on it to protect the surface. I used Krylon Maxx gloss. It sprays well and goes on nice and thin and dries quickly so having the paint bust up under it is not too big a worry. It was sprayed outside in 90+ temps with a stiff breeze so drying time was decreased and I had to work quickly to get good even coverage with no dryspray. This will give me a good surface to continue the process as well as apply the decals later----20160711_175514.jpg20160711_175538.jpg20160711_175623.jpg20160711_175654.jpg--still a lot of work to go but we're getting close. I'm not going to go to huge extremes to make it perfect since these things get banged up.---H
 
Thank you sir. A change in schedule gave me the day off today so I decided to try and figure out the tip tanks. Earlier I started to make one (plan A) with a piece of 1 inch thin wall pvc. The idea was to cap either end with a foam cone---that idea never really got any traction. I did get one cone on but it was going to give me problems mounting the tank to the wing so --out the window ! I considered getting 4 cones made(plan) to spec and using 1 inch bt but I suspected that might be a bit expensive so I tossed that idea too.Finally settled on trying to make them out of foam block much like I did the nose cone. The first thing I did was to run a dowel down the middle of a 1 ft long block and epoxy it in place.-20160712_103742.jpg Next I cut the foam into a square cross section ( on the next one I'll trim it to an octagon to make sanding easier. )-20160712_103755.jpg. Now it's just a matter of putting it on a drill and sanding it to shape (YEA RIGHT!). Honestly the process was pretty easy but I worked slowly making sure not to take off too much material. This was done with 100 and 150 grit wrapped around a sanding block. I ended up with this-20160712_114448.jpg this was coated with a thin layer of sheet rock mud and the wing tip cut outs made--20160712_122047.jpg---turns out it was about 3/4 inch longer than needed so I just re-sanded the nose to shape--20160712_122222.jpg20160712_145303.jpg---so far so good ---more later---H
 
Over the last couple of evenings , work progressed on the tip tank. In retrospect I should have done them both at the same time but I had doubts about the process and really thought Plan B was going to be needed. Turns out it's really durable and without flex so I went ahead and covered it with resin and then after a light sanding hit it with glazing putty and primed it--not too bad !!--20160712_191853.jpg20160714_221001.jpg--After a couple of primes and sanding I put down a coat of paint and after that had set I added the fins. They were epoxied on. They were made from a very hard card stock I picked up at work. It's used to separate magnetic strips and is finished on one side--very good to use for really thin aerodynamic surfaces. There were a couple of different fin designs used on the tip tanks. One had a larger inboard fin, on the other they were symmetrical.I opted for the second. Still some sanding and priming to go but it looks like I'm on the right track--20160715_190503.jpg20160715_190508.jpg20160715_190515.jpg20160715_190524.jpg-- While it seem we are nearing the finish line , we're still a long, long, way off. Stay tuned---H
 
I'm continuing to study the CP/CG values on the 104. In this pic--20160715_190524.jpg--the rear dot on the spine represents the presumed CP , the front dot is the needed CG at one cal. The kit would have this value at about 2.5 inches ahead of it's current position. With the re-design, the CP,CG locations changed. The tip tanks are neutral as far as the CP is concerned but, at an ounce each they do shift the CG towards the rear. Given the length of the nose, I should need about an ounce to make up the difference. -H
 
Bill - Looking great! WE have a new family member. 2 month old Siberian Husky that my sister found that someone abandoned or dumped just last week...plus my project will be ending soon on Aug 5th so life has been keeping busy and not much "Rocket" time. Once the husky gets big I'll be taking her on some long walks and getting back into the shape I was.... who needs a gym membership when I have her. Her name is Sasha.... I had a husky before so I know what I'm getting into.
 
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