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  1. #61
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Besides the fact that AMD CPUs are, once again, the best choice for price/performance despite the concerted efforts by Intel to destroy them via illegal behavior, an effort which nearly succeeded, it is BECAUSE of Intel's behavior in that respect that I will NEVER AGAIN knowingly buy a product with "Intel Inside". Period. Watch this. It's mind blowing.

    Intel - Anti-Competitive, Anti-Consumer, Anti-Technology
    Jul 26, 2017


    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

  2. #62
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Look at what AMD sent this reviewer! Same sent to other YouTube reviewers including to one who has only 35k subscribers:



    Threadripper CPU installation onto mobo near end of video:


    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

  3. #63
    Join Date
    30th January 2016
    Location
    US > OK > NE
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    2,984
    Equally intriguing are their new high end workstation graphics cards, which have an onboard SSD for extremely large models, texture caching, etc.

    As a sometimes gamer, the idea of having all textures pre-cached on load opens up some fairly exciting open-world possibilities.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Quote Originally Posted by dhbarr View Post
    Equally intriguing are their new high end workstation graphics cards, which have an onboard SSD for extremely large models, texture caching, etc.

    As a sometimes gamer, the idea of having all textures pre-cached on load opens up some fairly exciting open-world possibilities.
    From what I've seen so far, anyone who makes a living from video content creation or who uses CAD software that can use as many cores and threads as are made available in a system would be nuts not to build a Threadripper system. Gaming not as much because the games aren't written to use threads beyond what the former Intel monopoly has made available on the desktop and, as you point out, it's the graphics card where most of the work is done. However, with the high end desktop CPUs that AMD is now offering, that will change with time. From a price/performance aspect alone, AMD deserves to own the vast majority of Intel's market in every sector right now with the exception of mobile. AMD mobile processors aren't due until early next year IIRC.

    More coolness:

    AMD unveiled something truly remarkable today – a server rack that has a total processing power of 1 PetaFLOPs. That’s 10 to the power of 15 floating point operations per second. Here’s the kicker though: a decade ago in 2007, a computer of the same power would have required roughly 6000 square feet of area and thousands of processors to power. A decade ago, this would have been one of the most powerful supercomputers on Earth, and today, its a server rack.

    The server rack, ahem supercomputer, named Project 47 is powered by 20x EPYC 7601 32 Core processors and around 80x Radeon Instinct GPUs. It supports around 10 TB of Samsung Memory and 20x Mellanox 100G cards as well as 1 switch. All of this is fitted into a server rack that is roughly the height of 1.25 Lisa Su’s with an energy efficiency of 30 GFLOPs per watt. That means the project 47 super computer consumes around 33,333 watts of electricity. Project 47 will be available from Inventec and their principal distributor AMAX sometime in Q4 of this year.

    Back in 2007, you would have found the same power in a supercomputer called the IBM Roadrunner. This was a super computer project that was once the most powerful, well, super computer of its time and built by AMD and IBM for the Los Alamos National Laboratory. The cluster had 696 racks spanning an area of 6000 square feet and consumer 2,350,000 watts of electricity. The cluster consisted primarily of around 64,000 dual core Opteron CPUs and some accelerators.

    So basically in a little over 10 years, AMD has managed to make a system that consumes 98% less power and takes up 99.93% less space. We are not yet sure how much Project 47 will cost, but we are pretty sure it will be less than the US $100 Million cost of the original Roadrunner. If that isn’t the epitome of modern computational advances, I don’t know what is.


    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

  5. #65
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Why Intel is toast on price/performance until they design their own Infinity Fabric (multi-die) tech:

    AMD MCM v. Monolithic Cost Savings

    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

  6. #66
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Didn't know about the laser destruction part:

    All semiconductor microprocessors are manufactured on a silicon wafer. Simply put, each silicon wafer goes through a long photochemical process to have circuitry photolithographically etched onto it, to convert that purified sand into a functional electrical device. It’s a complex multi-step process that takes months from start to finish. Tiny defects in the wafer inevitably occur, and the end-product is never 100% perfect.

    Not all “chips” on a wafer end up being equal. Some, especially those in the periphery, end up with the shorter end of the stick. Chips closer towards the center usually come out the best. If we’re talking about Vega, then these cream of the crop chips end up as your Vega 64s. If we’re talking about NVIDIA’s GP102, then these end up in the the Titan Xp cards. This is also true for CPUs. AMD only uses the best Ryzen dies for its high-end Threadripper CPUs.

    The best chips go into the “best” products. Slightly defective — perhaps they clock lower or require more voltage, have some dysfunctional shaders so on and so forth — but otherwise fully functional chips go into making the cut-down variant of the same product. In Vega’s case that’s the Vega 56. In GP102’s case that’s the GTX 1080 Ti. This is also why not all Fury or 290 cards could be unlocked to become R9 Fury X or 290X cards.

    Chip makers salvage these slightly defective die to maximize the number of usable chips that they can sell. If you’re going to chuck out every defective die on the wafer you won’t end up with much left to sell. CPU & GPU makers usually go through an extra step to make sure that these cut-down chips stay cut down, and that’s by lasering off the unused hardware. NVIDIA and Intel have consistently done this. Things have been a little more lenient on the AMD side. Over the years we’ve seen cut-down chips that had gone through the laser treatment and some that hadn’t. Fiji is a good example of a GPU that hadn’t and is why R9 Furys were unlockable to R9 Fury Xs.


    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

  7. #67
    Join Date
    10th July 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    963
    It has been said that silicon is the most expensive real estate on the planet. They want to get the most out of each wafer.
    TRA 13430, Level 3

    "Everybody's simulation model is guilty until proven innocent" (Thomas H. Lawrence 1994)

  8. #68
    Join Date
    31st January 2009
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    4,212
    Quote Originally Posted by OverTheTop View Post
    It has been said that silicon is the most expensive real estate on the planet. They want to get the most out of each wafer.
    The component density is simply amazing these days. Ryzen: 4.8 billion per 8-core "Zeppelin" die; die size: 192 mm². I'd love to go back to the Eniac team and show them that. They'd pass out.

    The last CPU that Motorola laid out by hand according to an interview I watched of those involved with the 6800 and 68000 series:



    The Motorola 6809 ("sixty-eight-oh-nine") is an 8-bit microprocessor CPU with some 16-bit features from Motorola. It was designed by Terry Ritter and Joel Boney and introduced in 1978. It was a major advance over both its predecessor, the Motorola 6800, and the related MOS Technology 6502. Among the systems to use the 6809 are the Dragon home computers, TRS-80 Color Computer, the Vectrex home console, and early 1980s arcade machines including Defender, Robotron: 2084, Joust, and Gyruss.

    The 6809 was the first microprocessor able to use fully position-independent, or reentrant, or both, code without the use of difficult programming tricks. It also contained one of the first hardware-implementations of a multiplication instruction in an MPU, full 16-bit arithmetic, and an especially fast interrupt system.


    M6809 - 9,000 transistors, 20.09 mm² die = 448 transistors per mm²

    Ryzen Zeppelin - 4.8 billion transistors, 192 mm² die = 25 MILLION transistors per mm²

    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." - Will Rogers

    "If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed." - Mark Twain

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