Fliskits Rose-A-Roc finishing question - first (and last) flight

I've just started building the Rose-A-Roc and am looking ahead to paint options. In the few build threads I've found here, and in the images I've found on Google, this kit is nearly always built and flown naked.

Does anyone that has built this one think that masking off the hinges and painting it would be a problem after it's finished?

I coated the nosecone with CWF and will be sanding it smooth at the very least. Would filling the grain of the propeller blades with CWF and painting the tops (opposite the MonoKote) add too much weight and cause it not to fly correctly?

I started mine a looooong time ago.
Still not finished.
The big thing is to keep it as lite weight as possible .
Me-self, I was going to use magic markers to color it.
Or possible paint pens.
Any pics of the build?

Scotty Dog said:

Any pics of the build?

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No. I haven't planned on doing a build thread or anything. So far I've cut out the propellers, cut the MonoKote into strips, and put CWF on the nosecone. That's about it.

I'd considered painting the pieces before assembly but I think it can be painted afterwards without gunking up the hinges and stuff. My only concern is if CWF on the props will be a problem with weight. I'm hoping someone has done this and can report if it was a problem or not.

I haven't built that particular design, but if you are concerned about painting, will it be in competition? Are you expecting a long descent? If not, go ahead and paint it. The only time I ever used markers for any type of rocket was for the Holverson boost glider. You really wouldn't want to paint that. But I did build a copter prototype of my big Cloud Chopper and both got painted. The prototype descends fine if you use a short delay. Longer makes it come in upside down. The big one came in upside down because the wind caught the fins and turned it. It was quite breezy that day also.



Here's the big one. This unpainted version shows a better scale to the size.

Mushtang, you just don't stop! You just finished the Spitfire! You must have an awesome lineup of rockets to launch at events!!

My old build thread
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...Roc-Build-Lost-and-Found&highlight=rOSE-A-ROC

If you don't plan to compete, paint shouldn't hurt to much as long as it is a light coat. I'd do something swirly. The hard thing about paint is there is not a lot of surface area on the bird.

mjennings said:

My old build thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?117067-Rose-A-Roc-Build-Lost-and-Found&highlight=rOSE-A-ROC

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I looked at this thread when I was making plans to build mine. I love that this forum has at least one model of something built so you can check before you start on something.

mjennings said:

If you don't plan to compete, paint shouldn't hurt to much as long as it is a light coat.

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I was hoping to CWF, primer, and paint the blades. Last night I sanded them to an airfoil and now they're so thin I'm almost scared to touch them. I really didn't take of all that much material, mostly in the back and a little up front. Perhaps I should CWF and primer now, so that I can keep them laying on the table for sanding. I'd hate to break one.

Then I can glue the pieces of rubber onto the primer and after the rocket is finished I can paint without worry. I'll mask off the hinges and rubber band pieces before painting.

mjennings said:

The hard thing about paint is there is not a lot of surface area on the bird.

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True. When it's opened there's not. When it's all closed up it would be neat if I'd papered the blades to look like a Saturn V. Hmmm....

kcobbva said:

Mushtang, you just don't stop! You just finished the Spitfire! You must have an awesome lineup of rockets to launch at events!!

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I don't have NEARLY as many as some of the pictures I've seen on here of people's collections. I probably have 10-20 rockets that I still can fly. I've seen posts where people have hundreds of built rockets in multiple rooms of their houses.

I was in one guy's apartment a couple of years ago that I'd met online here, and we were sitting at his kitchen table talking about builds. He wanted to show me a rocket (this story sounds more dirty than it was, I swear) and he opened up a kitchen cabinet to get to it. Most of his kitchen cabinets were used for rocket storage! His laundry room had more shelves, a spare room had lots, I doubt there was a room in his place without rockets. It was crazy how many he had... but I have to admit I was jealous.

Mushtang said:

I was in one guy's apartment a couple of years ago that I'd met online here, and we were sitting at his kitchen table talking about builds. He wanted to show me a rocket (this story sounds more dirty than it was, I swear) and he opened up a kitchen cabinet to get to it. Most of his kitchen cabinets were used for rocket storage! His laundry room had more shelves, a spare room had lots, I doubt there was a room in his place without rockets. It was crazy how many he had...

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Hmmm, I'm guessing he wasn't married!

The_Lone_Beagle said:

Hmmm, I'm guessing he wasn't married!

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True. My wife is cool about letting me build on the kitchen table and leave it there for weeks. But NO wife would be THAT cool and let rockets be all over the place. It was really awesome seeing rockets in the cabinets like that. I'll never forget it.

the kitchen is my wife's domain....well...let me re state...this entire house is my wife's domain..I am tolerated in only certain places....the garage and the cave......after that....its at my own risk...the kitchen is her sanctuary.

Mushtang said:

True. My wife is cool about letting me build on the kitchen table and leave it there for weeks. But NO wife would be THAT cool and let rockets be all over the place. It was really awesome seeing rockets in the cabinets like that. I'll never forget it.

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NJRick said:

the kitchen is my wife's domain....well...let me re state...this entire house is my wife's domain..I am tolerated in only certain places....the garage and the cave......after that....its at my own risk...the kitchen is her sanctuary.

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Rick you have that right!!! I'm lucky to get a back corner area of our basement to build in. I'd get scalped for the kitchen table.

its amazing the work we can get done stuffed into the corner of a garage or basement!! I remember using a seldom used teapot to steam the paper tubes that make up the first stage of the Zooch Saturn 1b...well..I broke the thing an figured I would hide it back up on the shelf where it had sat for years....my wife discovered it within a day or so..I have no idea how.

Mushtang....this looks like another cool rocket!

kcobbva said:

Rick you have that right!!! I'm lucky to get a back corner area of our basement to build in. I'd get scalped for the kitchen table.

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Mushtang said:

True. When it's opened there's not. When it's all closed up it would be neat if I'd papered the blades to look like a Saturn V. Hmmm....

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hmmm you could use white and black tissue paper and dope the blades like you would do for the Gillow's rubber-band powered AC That might add less weight than paint and you could keep the rubber glued to the wood which is stronger.

I still haven't painted or papered my Roes-a-roc, but I did do a mod that I thought I'd share.

The instructions have you glue in the rubber and I was afraid that if the rubber broke due to age or accident, it would be difficult to replace. Or impossible. There is an option given in the instructions for pins to be stuck into the nose so you can replace the rubber bands as needed but I wasn't sure I'd like that method either.

I was inspired by lessgravity's mod where he used bent pins in this thread. But I didn't want to use pins either.

I took the leftover strip of balsa and cut a 1/4" long piece and a 3/8" piece. From the longer piece I cut two corners off leaving a 1/8" section sticking out. I used white glue to stick them together and pressed them against the nose cone so they'd dry curved to fit even though they weren't being attached to the nose yet. When dried I used lots of CA to harden the balsa, especially the tip sticking up. When I had three of these I then used white glue to attach them to the nose cone, lining them up with the blades.



Then I created another three of these, but this time didn't curve them, and used CA to attach them to the blades. I tried white glue first but since this area of the blades had already been hardened with CA it didn't stick very well. So I used a puddle of CA and when that cured these things were permanent.


I bought a bag of small white rubber bands at a hobby store and stretch 2 on each set. In this picture you can see the closest blade folded in half and bent down into launch position while the other two are being held up.


And here all three blades are folded and bent down.


If you look really close you'll see the remains of some issues I had with one of the hinge wires breaking. I fixed it but it left a couple of dangling wires that do nothing.

I made a short video of the blades popping up into place but wasn't happy since it didn't really show the whole rocket well enough. I'll make another one soon and post a GIF or something here. This seems to work really well! I was worried that the rubber bands might pop off the blades when it flew open but after a dozen or so tests nothing like that has happened. If the little tabs to break off I'll just glue on another layer with a full width tab, which is what I probably should have done to begin with, and never cut off the corners. The real test will be when I try to fly it. If it spins properly I'll be happy. I'm not entering any contests for longest flights with it.

I'm still debating on painting the nose and fins, and papering the blades, so it will look a *little* like a Saturn V when folded down for launch.

Nice idea wish I'd have thought of that!

Mushtang said:

True. My wife is cool about letting me build on the kitchen table and leave it there for weeks. But NO wife would be THAT cool and let rockets be all over the place. It was really awesome seeing rockets in the cabinets like that. I'll never forget it.

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OH man! Sorry but that statement couldn't be any more incorrect if you tried!
I've been building and flying Model rockets over 50 years now. My second wife and I are about to celebrate our 39th anniversary. We live and raised our 3 kids in an 800 Sq Ft. 3 level Town House in Washington DC. For ALL those years I've had the plesasure of designing and building models in the basement and more recently in the Living Room as well. I'm Lucky enough to have a Better 2/3rds (Cause She is SOOOOO much better then just 1/2) that also give me the freedom to Spray Paint in the house year round in one of my two basement located spray booths. As for storage of my over 600 models I have a 10' x 10' x 8' shed out in the back yard that hold the majority of the LPR and MPR models. But I also have many finished models in every room of the house except the Kitchen (as that is her domain) and the upstairs bathroom (but have a Polaris missle & underwater launcher) planned for display there very soon
It's all about giving and recieving support and encouragement for our Hobbies. While the Better 2/3rd doesn't build or fly model rockets, She's only built two in 39 years She goes with me to every Club Meeting, Club outings, attends Launches and even volunteers for range duty during contests. She also is now my recovery crew since my back injury prevents me from taking long hikes. I do support her ceramics hobby and help her with her Craft-Shows as best I can. It's all about finding that One in a Zillion mate that turely completes each other.
Yes folks: I am Truely blessed. The love of my Life is also my Better 2/3rd in everything I attempt and do.
I sincerely hope each and everyone of you find that special someone. It's truely Magic!

But back to the topic at hand.... If you do not intending to compete with it. you can surely limit the flight time by adding, Primer, paint and decoration to please yourself. After all it is your rocket.

Helicopter Recovery is one of my favorite NAR competitions. I've been building Rose-A-Roc type HD models since Art Rose invented them back in the day. I will say in all the time and over at least 4-5 different models I've never painted one. I currently don't have one in my fleet since I started designing my own several decades ago. I do use a lot of Magic Marker over bare balsa with outstanding results making most of my HD competition models both competitive and colorful. a couple examples below.
Hope this helps a little.

I brought the Ros-a-rock to the last club launch but forgot to pack some thread, so it remained unflown until today. This was the first time I attempted this and was very excited. I double checked online to make sure I picked the right engine because I couldn't remember if this flew with -0 engines or not. One of the recommended first flight motors was a B6-4, so I loaded it up and on the flight card I made sure to indicate "First flight" as well as "Heads up".

Lawn dart




The thread didn't burn through. No idea why. I looked in from the open end and it was clearly right across the middle. I took this picture to show how the thread was still holding one propeller and remained in the hole.



Two of the blades broke off when it hit, you can see them on the grass in the first picture, and it was beyond easily fixing. The remains were put into a garbage can and so I'll never get to see if my modification on the rubber band connections would work well.

Sadness.

Awesome man. Sorry to see that!

Wow! What kind of thread did you use? If it's not just a standard sewing thread, you're using the wrong stuff.

Years ago I built a Rota-roc (check George Gassaway's website for plans) to compete with and loved it so much I would often fly it whenever my friends and I decided to launch rockets on a whim. That was 30+ years ago. Now I'm finishing up a new one and hoping it flies just as well, though I think I may have used too light a wood for the rotors. I used Aero-Gloss Balsa Filler on the rotors and fins. It will not get paint, but it may get some colored marker finish.

TangoJuliet said:

Wow! What kind of thread did you use? If it's not just a standard sewing thread, you're using the wrong stuff.

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That's the first thing I thought about, so I checked to see if somehow the thread I had was the problem. But it was cotton thread, so I don't know why it didn't burn through.

Mushtang said:

I brought the Ros-a-rock to the last club launch but forgot to pack some thread, so it remained unflown until today. This was the first time I attempted this and was very excited. I double checked online to make sure I picked the right engine because I couldn't remember if this flew with -0 engines or not. One of the recommended first flight motors was a B6-4, so I loaded it up and on the flight card I made sure to indicate "First flight" as well as "Heads up".

Lawn dart

View attachment 307024


The thread didn't burn through. No idea why. I looked in from the open end and it was clearly right across the middle. I took this picture to show how the thread was still holding one propeller and remained in the hole.

View attachment 307025

Two of the blades broke off when it hit, you can see them on the grass in the first picture, and it was beyond easily fixing. The remains were put into a garbage can and so I'll never get to see if my modification on the rubber band connections would work well.

Sadness.

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I have one of these and it is fun to fly but it does take some skill to build.
My only failure was not releasing the blade hold down after the prepping the burn thru thread.
Can't understand why that thread didn't burn thru...must be one hell of a tough thread.
Was it some kind of nylon or something?
Sorry you tossed it in the garbage...I would have kept it.

MaxQ said:

Was it some kind of nylon or something?

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Nope, as I said in the previous post it was standard cotton thread. Nothing special.

MaxQ said:

Sorry you tossed it in the garbage...I would have kept it.

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The place where the propellers broke made it where I didn't think it was worth repairing. If you'd been there you could have had it.

I'm wondering if your thread wasn't treated without your knowledge, as in unlabelled.

How does it burn from the spool?

Mushtang said:

The thread didn't burn through. No idea why. I looked in from the open end and it was clearly right across the middle. I took this picture to show how the thread was still holding one propeller and remained in the hole.

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That is strange Mush. I have 2 heli jobs and used thread in both of them in the past with no problem. I have however, switched to something new to me and it's an elastic thread I got from a big fabric store. This stuff works really good and there are no worries of having any loose thread dangling around once it burns. It seems to burn into a lot easier also. The elastic draws the thread out of the holes and is forced away by the props and the elastic both. Double duty if you will. The only thing that comes to mind with your fail, is the fire never got to the thread somehow. If you still have the spent motor casing, check to see if it burned through. Maybe it all went out the nozzle.

*Sniff* He was a great rocket. They say he was high all his life, when he came back to earth, he just crashed. *Snifffff* He will be missed....

Sorry for the loss Mushtang.

Mushtang:
Second Gary's suggestion: As mentioned earlier HD competition is/was one of my favorite NAR competitions. Most of us haven't used cotton or nylon thread for decades for the very reason you just observed. Sometimes no matter how well you've tied the burn string they just refuse to burn though.
That said: I haven't had a no Burn problem since switching to Elastic Thread from a fabric store. I've used both black and white seems to make no difference. Once through the holes and around the ROTORS (Not propellers) this elastic thread has a 100% burn through rate on all my competition and fun flying Helicopter models 1/8A - F motor.
The rose-a roc is a challenging model to start you might want to take a look at the standard Rota-Roc as it's has a somewhat simplier Rotor attachment arrangement.
Sorry for you lose, Helicopters are a lot of fun, Please take another crack at it, they do have a bit of a learning curve.

Micromeister said:

That said: I haven't had a no Burn problem since switching to Elastic Thread from a fabric store. I've used both black and white seems to make no difference. Once through the holes and around the ROTORS (Not propellers) this elastic thread has a 100% burn through rate on all my competition and fun flying Helicopter models 1/8A - F motor.

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Although the Meister doesn't require a second, elastic is a great idea for a couple of reasons. Since it retracts after burn through, it tends to automatically pull out of the holes to release the rotors. Also, seems like when you use standard thread you can only get it so tight, and if your rocket gets wiggled a bit between prep and launch it gets a little loose. Elastic is self tightening (just don't get it TOO tight.)
My Choppers are a bit different and strictly sport birds, not competitors. But they fly well enough for me, and I always use #16 rubber bands for retention. Works great.
Hope you try another chopper. For sport flying they are a trip. There are a lot of simpler designs out there that are faster builds and don't bum you out quite as much if they break after a flight or two.

It hasn't been asked yet, that I can see, but did you check the engine to see if the ejection charge even went off? I ask as I don't see any burn residue in the pass holes...

It's rare, but it does happen....

jflis said:

It hasn't been asked yet, that I can see, but did you check the engine to see if the ejection charge even went off? I ask as I don't see any burn residue in the pass holes...

It's rare, but it does happen....

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The engine was ejected out the back, so I didn't get to inspect it directly. There was some burn marks inside the tube, but I can't be sure what amount of ejection clay actually opened up.