Wood Hardener vs. Thin CA

dixontj93060 · Apr 27, 2016

OK, I have a few LPR kits in my pile--actually built two lately, so went out and got this while at Menards:

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461797779.457422.jpg

Looked about the same formulation as Minwax and was $2 cheaper per pint. Who knows if it is better than using CA, but I'll try it.

dhbarr · Apr 27, 2016

Neat! I know the PC Green stuff is supposed to be way worse than MW. Looking forward to hearing about the JBW.

cavecentral · May 1, 2016

One thing I am interested to know (if anyone tried or wants to test) is how these hold up to flame / heat (think treating motor mounts and motor ejection). (e.g. I'd hate to use a NC based lacquer to seal a motor mount tube).

Thoughts?

dhbarr · May 1, 2016

cavecentral said:
One thing I am interested to know (if anyone tried or wants to test) is how these hold up to flame / heat (think treating motor mounts and motor ejection). (e.g. I'd hate to use a NC based lacquer to seal a motor mount tube.

Set some crushed body tubes on fire this afternoon? Don't mind if I do!

dhbarr · May 1, 2016

Results, again, are relative / rough / for comparison only.

For all except the controls, the burning proceeded much quicker on the exterior untreated surface than the interior.

Both controls ( untreated ) burned in about 60s.

wh1, wh2, ls1 all burned in about 50s.

gs1 burned in about 45s w/ hissing / frying noise.

wg1 burned in about 60s w/ thick black smoke.

ls2 burned in about 60s w/ a hot clean flame.

gs2 burned in about 60s w/ hissing / frying noise.

I lost the wg2 sample at some point in the last several days ; I would expect it to take about a minute to burn, and to produce even more black smoke.

The only surprising result was the large delta between gs1 and gs2, but again: small sample size / imprecise measurement.

All in all, I don't know that we can draw many conclusions, other than none of the treatments particularly turn our body tubes into fiery death traps

cavecentral · May 1, 2016

dhbarr said:
View attachment 289848

Results, again, are relative / rough / for comparison only.

For all except the controls, the burning proceeded much quicker on the exterior untreated surface than the interior.

Both controls ( untreated ) burned in about 60s.

wh1, wh2, ls1 all burned in about 50s.

gs1 burned in about 45s w/ hissing / frying noise.

wg1 burned in about 60s w/ thick black smoke.

ls2 burned in about 60s w/ a hot clean flame.

gs2 burned in about 60s w/ hissing / frying noise.

I lost the wg2 sample at some point in the last several days ; I would expect it to take about a minute to burn, and to produce even more black smoke.

The only surprising result was the large delta between gs1 and gs2, but again: small sample size / imprecise measurement.

All in all, I don't know that we can draw many conclusions, other than none of the treatments particularly turn our body tubes into fiery death traps

Cool! Thanks for doing the test.

dhbarr · May 5, 2016

Glad to! I've got a 38mm mailing tube, thinking about doing a weight comparison.

Anything else folks would like to see?

AfterBurners · May 5, 2016

good info

TheTellurian · May 5, 2016

Try blending in some Borax and see if that retards the fire.

Richard

dhbarr · May 5, 2016

Borated epoxy, now there's an idea.

dhbarr · May 7, 2016

Looks like Antimony and BPA resins are already out there along w/ borated. Can think of some good uses.

ratchet01 · Jun 8, 2016

Sorry to necropost,BUT: how did the J.B.Weld product work out? I can't find the Minwax in town. I have to either order it online or travel 30 min. to get to a decent hardware store. An hour to the closest hobbyshop,and it's mainly RC air and cars.

KenECoyote · Jun 8, 2016

Also any testing done on water resistance?

dhbarr · Jun 10, 2016

I don't have any JB WH to test, but external woodworking feedback suggests it's on par with MW WH.

Found the other wood glue sample today when rearranging, was actually WG1. Took almost exactly 60s to burn down and produced about half the black smoke of WG2.

What testing would be suggested for water trials? 1x & 2x coats ( inside & out this time ), spray w/ water, look for deformation? Immerse in water, let dry 24 hrs, weigh?

KenECoyote · Jun 10, 2016

dhbarr said:
What testing would be suggested for water trials? 1x & 2x coats ( inside & out this time ), spray w/ water, look for deformation? Immerse in water, let dry 24 hrs, weigh?

Good question! Since you've asked, I would first suggest just spraying the outside with water since I think rockets would most commonly be exposed to wet grass conditions and maybe rain. After that would be complete immersion since rockets can land in water (lakes/rivers, puddles, irrigation ditches).

It's not critical for a build, but I would think it's a great bonus if one of these also offers some water resistance.

Forever_Metal · Jun 24, 2016

Steve Shannon said:
That's because Minwax wood hardener is 72% acetone and 3% methanol by weight. Those are the solvents for the actual hardening agent. Here's the MSDS:
https://www.minwax.com/document/MSDS/en/027426417007

[emoji1010] Steve Shannon, L3CC [emoji1010]

wonder if i can use it to fuel my methanol chugging sprint car... (that's me last year at Ventura Raceway)

dixontj93060 · Jun 25, 2016

Forever_Metal said:
wonder if i can use it to fuel my methanol chugging sprint car... (that's me last year at Ventura Raceway)

That's COOL!!!!

Kruegon · Jun 26, 2016

This is truly amazing info to have. I'd also enjoy some surface finishing results.

I nearly always ca my tube ends internally to protect against the ravages of NC and coupler wear. Makes them extremely slick and firm.

I'd be interested in an opinion of tube finishing for external applications on non-glassine tubes. Particularly in regards to wood hardener. The ability to produce harder tubes with a smoother finish prior to priming is an intriguing idea.

dhbarr · Jun 26, 2016

I didn't sand any if these. WH was definitely smoothest, the thinner CA next, thicker CA, then WG.

I'm thinking of redoing the burn test when I do the water test, finish / sanding seem like good ideas. X inches of Y grit with Z weight stacked on it?

Use cardstock instead of tubes this time, I think.

Forever_Metal · Jul 9, 2016

dixontj93060 said:
That's COOL!!!!

if you get the chance to drive one, I highly recommend it. That car is close to the only thing I would pick over rocketry...

fm

Forever_Metal · Jul 9, 2016

dixontj93060 said:
That's COOL!!!!

HELP!! How'd the jb wh pan out? looking for some info as the spiral monster is about to consume me...

fm

Wood Hardener vs. Thin CA

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