Estes Black Brant II Roll Pattern Madness

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K'Tesh

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I'm trying to sim the Estes Black Brant II (1958), and I now realize why mine never were quite up to me being willing to show them off anywhere (except to one VERY spooked seagull). The detailing instructions from Estes were complete S***.

Like others before me, I can't tell if the view of the rocket is from below or above. :confused2: I can't wrap my head around how the black bands should look once in place, and the angles of the instructions' photos are a source of tremendous frustration.

Does anybody have a decent roll pattern diagram of the BBII? I'm also interested in the other versions of the paint scheme, including the 4 fin Black Brant IIA variant.

I'm sure that there are many here who will thank the person who can.

Thanks!
Jim
 
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Go to Madcow's website and download their instructions for the BB. They have a pretty good diagram. That's what I did. Note, though, that Madcow shows different widths for the midlevel black stripes, and Estes has them both the same width. I didn't modify my decals and just rolled with it.
 
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There are probably a lot of variations, given how many of these were actually flown. Madcow might actually have a more accurate paint job than Estes, who probably catered toward trying simplify it (even if their instructions didn't). OTOH, Madcow doesn't use the boattail on all versions, so who knows how scale they're trying to be...

I've had a similar issue trying to research paint schemes for the Black Brant III, which ought to be a simple red with a silver nose cone, and a white stripe and fin. But there are almost no color images that I can find of an original, and the 3D renderings and diagram from Peter Alway are different from each other and different still from what Estes showed in their kit. At the end of the day, you may just have to use your best judgement and call it good. These rockets aren't nearly as well documented as, say, the V-2 test rockets from White Sands. The plus side of that is no one can really say you're wrong either...
 
This is the roll pattern listed on the Madcow site for the 2.6" BB II. ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461281292.558737.jpg
I almost used vinyl, but decided to try the tedious task of masking it off and doing it myself. I think it turned out alright! ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461281406.192688.jpgImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461281422.279902.jpg
 

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Me too! That's awesome!

Thanks! I was a little bummed, this happened on its maiden flight...ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1461282948.802330.jpg
But there's definitely something to be said about FG kits. The two pics in the house were before the maiden, the pic in the garage was after the clean-up. You'd never know it happened. Wet sanded the clear coat, reapplied, and voilà!
 
Thanks for the Madcow roll pattern, that helped clarify things a bunch.

So, what I've done here is created a six view image of the Black Brant II's roll pattern.




From what I've learned, to apply the decals correctly, the first decal that needs to be placed is the silver band, which is cut into 3 pieces and applied between the fins at the joint between the top of the wasp waist, and the body tube. That will be the foundation for all other decals. For clarity, all orientations below are presuming the rocket is siting on its fins and you are facing it. Fin 2 will be the fin directly opposite of the launch lugs, fin 1 will be to the left of fin 2, and of course fin 3 is to the right of fin 2.

The next priority should be the bottom section of the roll pattern. Specifically, the decal located centered between fin 1 and fin 2. If my math is correct, these decal are all actually .52" wide, leaving a .52" gap of white between them. My math looks like this... Body tube diameter (1.325") X Pi/8 (equal width segments), the results were then rounded to the nearest .01". These decals should be 4.5" long (body tube length (13.625") - silver band width (.125"))/3=4.5"

After the bottom course is done, the middle course the next priority. The black decal with the "C.A.R.D.E" and "Black Brant" markings is offset by .26" (not .25" as the instructions state) to the left of the right edge of the decal centered between fins 1 and 2. This will center it between that fin and the decal that is located just to the left side of fin 1. The decal should be oriented so that to read the markings, you should tilt your head to the left, this puts the "C" in C.A.R.D.E as the lowest letter.

That decal applied, the next decal will be the solid black rectangular decal. It will be offset from the right edge of the decal that is bisected by fin 3 (and the left edge of the decal located just to the right of fin 2). The black "C.A.R.D.E." insignia decal is applied with the "C" as the highest letter (thus you could read it correctly oriented with your head tilted to the right), it is located in the white gap which will include the launch lug.

Next comes the widest band with the notches. The notches are on the upper end of the the decal (I have seen one that was applied upside down (not my own)). That decal will align with the left side of the decal centered between fins 1 and 2.

The silver rectangular markings with the black brant (bird) emblem are applied in the notches, with the bird facing up, and the longer wing of the bird pointed towards the black.

The "CC II A 10" decals are applied to each side of the fins. My graphic has them oriented downwards at a 30 degree angle (from the horizon), and readable right side up.

Here's the image I used for my .ork file's body tube. NOTE: To use this in a .ork file, the image must be rotated CCW 90 degrees.

 
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Thanks for the Madcow roll pattern, that helped clarify things a bunch.

So, what I've done here is created a six view image of the Black Brant II's roll pattern.




From what I've learned, to apply the decals correctly, the first decal that needs to be placed is the silver band, which is cut into 3 pieces and applied between the fins at the joint between the top of the wasp waist, and the body tube. That will be the foundation for all other decals. For clarity, all orientations below are presuming the rocket is siting on its fins and you are facing it. Fin 2 will be the fin directly opposite of the launch lugs, fin 1 will be to the left of fin 2, and of course fin 3 is to the right of fin 2.

The next priority should be the bottom section of the roll pattern. Specifically, the decal located centered between fin 1 and fin 2. If my math is correct, these decal are all actually .52" wide, leaving a .52" gap of white between them. My math looks like this... Body tube diameter (1.325") X Pi/8 (equal width segments), the results were then rounded to the nearest .01". These decals should be 4.5" long (body tube length (13.625") - silver band width (.125"))/3=4.5"

After the bottom course is done, the middle course the next priority. The black decal with the "C.A.R.D.E" and "Black Brant" markings is offset by .26" (not .25" as the instructions state) to the left of the right edge of the decal centered between fins 1 and 2. This will center it between that fin and the decal that is located just to the left side of fin 1. The decal should be oriented so that to read the markings, you should tilt your head to the left, this puts the "C" in C.A.R.D.E as the lowest letter.

That decal applied, the next decal will be the solid black rectangular decal. It will be offset from the right edge of the decal that is bisected by fin 3 (and the left edge of the decal located just to the right of fin 2). The black "C.A.R.D.E." insignia decal is applied with the "C" as the highest letter (thus you could read it correctly oriented with your head tilted to the right), it is located in the white gap which will include the launch lug.

Next comes the widest band with the notches. The notches are on the upper end of the the decal (I have seen one that was applied upside down (not my own)). That decal will align with the left side of the decal centered between fins 1 and 2.

The silver rectangular markings with the black brant (bird) emblem are applied in the notches, with the bird facing up, and the longer wing of the bird pointed towards the black.

The "CC II A 10" decals are applied to each side of the fins. My graphic has them oriented downwards at a 30 degree angle (from the horizon), and readable right side up.

Here's the image I used for my .ork file's body tube. NOTE: To use this in a .ork file, the image must be rotated CCW 90 degrees.


Looks like you got it all figured out. Nice work.
 
That's some serious OR ninja stuff right there.

The thing is, I was nearly finished with it last night, when I finally went to bed. Then MicroF'n:hot:Soft decided to install an update and rebooted my computer. I lost it ALL. :mad:
 
With all the threads I've been seeing for BBII's being built, I figure it's time to give this a bump.

The most important info (for the Estes kit) starts at post 7.
 
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