Question on Argonia rule?

Hi all- I was following a thread on the LDRS here, and someone pointed to the website for the Argonia field to confirm rules prior to flight. I was curious, and started reading, and came across this one:


The article contained a link, so I emailed my question per the request, but haven't heard anything. It's only been a week, and I'm not flying at Argonia nor do I have any aluminum rockets (I have a couple nosecones with tips), so it's not an urgent question, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why this rule exists...what am I missing?

I HAVE heard of farmers saying, "no metal" when flying on their fields, in case something goes wrong, so you don't mess up a $150,000 combine, but this isn't "no metal"...is it somehow related to reflectivity? If so, why?

Bob Brown or Lance should respond, but it is my understanding that this is a request from their landowner(s) and Kloudbusters wants to do all they can to maintain that good relationship, so they abide by the request. The exact basis, maybe it is the equipment issue, I don't know.

I'm thinking you're right about reflectivity. I'm sure there's a story there.

Bat-mite said:

I'm thinking you're right about reflectivity. I'm sure there's a story there.

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To bad Frank isnt around anymore . His "Altitude attempt " with his all metal O10000 that hit 30k and came in hot did not help the cause .

Eric

Come to Kansas and buy me a six pack and I will tell you the story in person. That is the only way you will hear it.

Tim Dixon knows the skinny, "...this is a request from their landowner(s) and Kloudbusters wants to do all they can to maintain that good relationship..." is QFT.

We have been flying from the same location for, now, over 25 years and we want to keep it that way.

--Lance.

Ummmm, I think if one paints it, it doesn't look so much like metal and the small bits allowed won't get someone thinking that a metal pointed nose tip means a metal rocket. Nonetheless, I believe the remains of a glass rocket can do harm to farm
equipment and it behooves one to fly the best tracking system they can (for very high flying projects that are going out of sight for long periods of time). The goal is to get as much of the rocket or pieces thereof off the field after recovery. Kurt

Bat-mite said:

I'm thinking you're right about reflectivity. I'm sure there's a story there.

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It still doesn't explain WHY reflectivity is a problem- I know crows like shiny bits, and crows are in fields, but it pretty much fails to reason beyond that!

llickteig1 said:

Come to Kansas and buy me a six pack and I will tell you the story in person. That is the only way you will hear it.

Tim Dixon knows the skinny, "...this is a request from their landowner(s) and Kloudbusters wants to do all they can to maintain that good relationship..." is QFT.

We have been flying from the same location for, now, over 25 years and we want to keep it that way.

--Lance.

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Looks like this is the path forward in my quest for knowledge and understanding! May be a few years, but I hope to get out there if you host LDRS again.

soopirV said:

Looks like this is the path forward in my quest for knowledge and understanding! May be a few years, but I hope to get out there if you host LDRS again.

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You don't have to wait for LDRS. Airfest in September every year. Three days of rocket heaven!

llickteig1 said:

Come to Kansas and buy me a six pack and I will tell you the story in person. That is the only way you will hear it.

Tim Dixon knows the skinny, "...this is a request from their landowner(s) and Kloudbusters wants to do all they can to maintain that good relationship..." is QFT.

We have been flying from the same location for, now, over 25 years and we want to keep it that way.

--Lance.

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I heard the same story from Bob Brown but it didn't cost a 6-pack. Bob a cheap date or what?

HHHMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

:roll:

I may regret this when I show up for Airfest in a few months.

-Dave

AIR FEST!!!! I can't wait! Metal or no metal. Kansas is an awesome place to fly rockets. If you haven't been then you need to go!

soopirV said:

Looks like this is the path forward in my quest for knowledge and understanding! May be a few years, but I hope to get out there if you host LDRS again.

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Ummm. . . . If I were you I wouldn't wait for the Kloudbusters to host an LDRS.

dixontj93060 said:

You don't have to wait for LDRS. Airfest in September every year. Three days of rocket heaven!

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And, by the way, AIRFest is four days ... if you've got the that urge.

--Lance.

dixontj93060 said:

You don't have to wait for LDRS. Airfest in September every year. Three days of rocket heaven!

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I have only associated Argonia with LDRS thanks to Discovery Channel and my own obvious ignorance, this is good to know!

BBrown said:

Ummm. . . . If I were you I wouldn't wait for the Kloudbusters to host an LDRS.

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Again, ignorance at play here, but I thought that was always at that site!

llickteig1 said:

And, by the way, AIRFest is four days ... if you've got the that urge.
--Lance.

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Four days...now this is becoming reasonable- it's a ~16 hour drive for me, but now I can maybe turn it into a week-long trip (if only I had a motorhome...heh)! Anyone else make a large trek for this?

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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Yes.

Yes.

DAllen said:

Yes.

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blackjack2564 said:

Yes.

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Lol, just asked my wife if she'd mind if I took a road trip, and before I could fully enunciate the "p" of trip she said, is it for rockets? When do you leave?

I hope she's being encouraging and not telling me to gtfo!

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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Yes. One thing about Argonia, it IS centrally located!

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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Yes!

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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Yes

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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I drove there from Ohio last year.


Totally worth it.

Seems to make sense. If I had a rocket that showed a metal tip on the nose cone, or whatever, for the event I'd cover it with a coat of cheap fingernail polish and just wipe it off with a rag and fingernail polish remover when done.

Ok I guess I will throw in what the reason is that I herd. I herd that the landowner or landowners didn't want any metal is because if the rocket is lost they didn't want it tearing up their farm equipment when it was ran over, picked up by shredders, combines or various other farm equipment.

Mightyrocketman said:

Ok I guess I will throw in what the reason is that I herd. I herd that the landowner or landowners didn't want any metal is because if the rocket is lost they didn't want it tearing up their farm equipment when it was ran over, picked up by shredders, combines or various other farm equipment.

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Yup, I believe that is quite common- my question was about why metal bits need to be PAINTED. I think ksaves2 has got the most plausible explanation, although it's still pretty silly, but if it works, it ain't stupid!

soopirV said:

Anyone else make a large trek for this?

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For LDRS XXX we drove from Hartford, CT - thirty one straight hours with two other guys. Stayed in Wellington, KS. at some fleabag that was so bad that I think the cure (or cause) for cancer was growing in the shower. And don't ask about the half eaten donut that was on the floor on the day we arrived - and still there when we left (5 days later). Argonia should be a requirement for L3...You don't have to actually make the attempt there, just prove you have been once. Yes, Black Rock can also fill that bill.

soopirV said:

Yup, I believe that is quite common- my question was about why metal bits need to be PAINTED. I think ksaves2 has got the most plausible explanation, although it's still pretty silly, but if it works, it ain't stupid!

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I've got another way to look at this. First, let's remember every inch of ground that we fly off of and recover from is owned by five or six different farmers not the government. We have absolutely no right to be there except these fine gentlemen ALLOW us to fly there. If one of them ever decides we are too much of a PITA to have around, it's very easy for him to get his neighbors to agree to throw us out and we have absolutely zero recourse.
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site. Here at TRF, folks who have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
Back to the present, to fly exposed metal at the Rocket Pasture, it must be painted. If you try to do otherwise it won't get by RSO or our pad managers.
BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

BBrown said:

...and that met the rule and there was not nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

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:roll: wish I could have been there for that! You don't tell Bob Brown how to run a launch!!!

But now I'm curious too. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go on up there and I'll just have to listen to the story firsthand while enjoying an adult beverage or two. :grin:

BBrown said:

I've got another way to look at this. First, let's remember every inch of ground that we fly off of and recover from is owned by five or six different farmers not the government. We have absolutely no right to be there except these fine gentlemen ALLOW us to fly there. If one of them ever decides we are too much of a PITA to have around, it's very easy for him to get his neighbors to agree to throw us out and we have absolutely zero recourse.
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site. Here at TRF, folks who have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
Back to the present, to fly exposed metal at the Rocket Pasture, it must be painted. If you try to do otherwise it won't get by RSO or our pad managers.
BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was not nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

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Bob, you are right. You are there at the owners discretion. You have a great site that I hope to get to one of these years, and you need to do what needs doing to protect your access to the site.

dixontj93060 said:

:roll: wish I could have been there for that! You don't tell Bob Brown how to run a launch!!!

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+1 😂

BBrown said:

I've got another way to look at this. First, let's remember every inch of ground that we fly off of and recover from is owned by five or six different farmers not the government. We have absolutely no right to be there except these fine gentlemen ALLOW us to fly there. If one of them ever decides we are too much of a PITA to have around, it's very easy for him to get his neighbors to agree to throw us out and we have absolutely zero recourse.
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site. Here at TRF, folks how have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
Back to the present, to fly exposed metal at the Rocket Pasture, it must be painted. If you try to do otherwise it won't get by RSO or our pad managers.
BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was not nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

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That is ever so true. The bare metal could be of concern that the entire thing is metal or the majority thereof. (Even though that's not true.) Fact of the matter is a glass rocket can dork equipment plain and simple. It doesn't need to be metal. If behooves everyone to get all their rockets or parts thereof off the field. I recently had a ballistic flight outlined here: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...-Mapping-Program-Update&p=1573624#post1573624

I was able to easily get the rocket body out and it'll fly again but the nosecone was embedded in the clay underneath the topsoil. I was tempted to leave it but I would have felt guilty leaving the trashed tracker and lithium battery 2 feet down.
If I had a long chisel I would have been able to get the nosecone out to fly again but I damaged it using the spade. I got it out as the picture shows and I felt a lot better for it. (Plus I wanted to see what the inside of the nosecone with the tracker looked like!) The GPS antenna snapped right off the base of the Eggfinder and the lithium battery was smashed. The plywood sled was partially turned to woodchips! Cool but I was able to find it quickly and deal with it.

Folks, please cheerfully abide by the rules that the host stipulates except if they mandate that all male fliers wear dresses, then I'd look for a different venue!:surprised: Kurt