Question on Argonia rule?

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BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was not nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

OMG I wish I could have been there to see that exchange!

I just don't get why people think they are above these rules and why they are so offended when enforced. It's ridiculous. Paint the freaking metal and move on with life. Sheez...
 
I have only associated Argonia with LDRS thanks to Discovery Channel and my own obvious ignorance, this is good to know!



Again, ignorance at play here, but I thought that was always at that site!



Four days...now this is becoming reasonable- it's a ~16 hour drive for me, but now I can maybe turn it into a week-long trip (if only I had a motorhome...heh)! Anyone else make a large trek for this?

16 hours +/- for me too and worth every darned minute behind the wheel or in the right seat.
 
I've got another way to look at this. First, let's remember every inch of ground that we fly off of and recover from is owned by five or six different farmers not the government. We have absolutely no right to be there except these fine gentlemen ALLOW us to fly there. If one of them ever decides we are too much of a PITA to have around, it's very easy for him to get his neighbors to agree to throw us out and we have absolutely zero recourse.
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site. Here at TRF, folks who have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
Back to the present, to fly exposed metal at the Rocket Pasture, it must be painted. If you try to do otherwise it won't get by RSO or our pad managers.
BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

I appreciate the confirmation of ksaves2 story, and I didn't mean to imply I thought anyone was silly for having the rule. It's clearly a good workaround, and I agree completely, if landowners' aren't happy, no one is happy. The "silly" statement was that it's not actually preventing metal from being flown (which would be incredibly difficult to do, particularly when your waiver is so high!), it just makes it look like metal isn't being flown. Again, it works, and is an elegant solution to an undoubtedly dicey problem.
 
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site.
Whaaaaaat???? Now you just being unreasonable. NO YELLOW ROCKETS!?! WTF and I going to do now?

Here at TRF, folks who have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
This is SOP here.

I am not kidding ... if you come to our site and bring me a 12-pack, I'll tell you everything I know. It was a 6-pack but now I'm getting tired; now it's going to take more.


Oh and ;) - smiley face for the first part.

--Lance.
 
But now I'm curious too. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go on up there and I'll just have to listen to the story firsthand while enjoying an adult beverage or two. :grin:

This the year Sam? I could probably be convinced to tag along (not real sure that is a selling point though).
 
This the year Sam? I could probably be convinced to tag along (not real sure that is a selling point though).

Aw man, you ask me this every year ! My plans are always flexible :p , and Airfest is on the list every year. This years NARAM is near Springfield Missouri at the end of July. I'd like to drive up there just to shake Vern Estes hand.
 
If I don't kiss away my vacation days I'd like to get up there this year too. Already told the wife.
 
Whaaaaaat???? Now you just being unreasonable. NO YELLOW ROCKETS!?! WTF and I going to do now?


This is SOP here.

I am not kidding ... if you come to our site and bring me a 12-pack, I'll tell you everything I know. It was a 6-pack but now I'm getting tired; now it's going to take more.


Oh and ;) - smiley face for the first part.

--Lance.

Creeeeeipes, After a twelver, you'll probably forget the story. Kurt
 
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I was at Airiest last year. All my rockets have metal tips. On the second day of launching, some one from LCO table ran out half way to pads to tell me no metal, after I been thru RSO. So I just used black electrical tape in my pocket to cover the tip, guy was happy. I launch rest of weekend using electrical taped tips, no questions.
 
I was at Airiest last year. All my rockets have metal tips. On the second day of launching, some one from LCO table ran out half way to pads to tell me no metal, after I been thru RSO. So I just used black electrical tape in my pocket to cover the tip, guy was happy. I launch rest of weekend using electrical taped tips, no questions.

David,
At a launch the size of Airfest, we have folks from all over the country who volunteer their time to help us run a safe and smooth launch. Sometimes things happen that probably shouldn't and allowing you to tape the tip is one of them. We will make sure that in the shift briefing this is addressed going forward. Thank you for pointing out our shortcomings. I'm sure we can fix this one.
Bob
 
If the landowners do not want rockets with METAL, then I do not see the point in PAINTING metal parts, so they do not appear to be metal.

If that was indeed the reason, that would effectively be lying to the landowners.

Please show me I am 100% wrong on this by there being some other reason for the paint that is NOT involved with hiding from the landowners the fact that metal parts ARE being flown when the landowners apparently have said NO?

If some rocket with painted metal parts buries itself or otherwise is not found, then a landowner's equipment is damaged by hitting it later, is the landowner going to say it's OK because it was PAINTED metal?

I really hope I am wrong about this.

So I'll just ask flat out, have the landowners SAID metal parts are OK if they are PAINTED to no longer look like metal???

- George Gassaway
 
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I just want to know if metallic paint is allowed. [emoji57]
Honestly, Argonia is a great launch site and the Kloudbusters run some of the best launches in the country. If the landowners said they wanted me to stand on one leg while launching I would do it.

[emoji1010] Steve Shannon, P.E. [emoji1010]
 
If the landowners say no metal how do we fly reloadable motors there? What about internal metal like all thread running through an electronics bay?

If I have a metal tipped nose cone, and I paint it is it not still a metal nose cone?

I agree the site it one of the premiere launch sites there is, and Bob/Lance and everyone else involved need to do what is needed to secure the site. Conversely, I want to understand exactly what is acceptable and what is not so when life actually allows me to make it to Airfest I do not run afoul of Bob or Lance.
 
Mark
I have always thought that it was to help prevent the cattle from seeing a shinny object and eating it. It would be very hard for them to swallow a threaded rod, motor case, but a nose cone tip would be easy for them to swallow. I could be all wrong?
 
It's a private understanding between private landowners who allow a private group to fly from their private land. Sometimes when you are an adult, you still have to accept "Because we said so and we don't have to tell you why!" That is an answer and you are not owed anything beyond that.
 
It's a private understanding between private landowners who allow a private group to fly from their private land. Sometimes when you are an adult, you still have to accept "Because we said so and we don't have to tell you why!" That is an answer and you are not owed anything beyond that.

+1

I am sick of those who think they are "entitled" to information they seek. If they do not get what they want, they need to "deal with it."
 
If the landowner tells me not to bring "xyz" on the field, that I all I need to know. You have to be glad they gave you the right to use their property.
 
You're being a jerk, and I can ask any question I like. Why all the cloak and dagger, and piling on anyone who questions it with as much force as possible? Stop being bullies and answer the question.

You really can't. I think it is more than obvious from Bob and Lance that they don't want to discuss the matter in a public forum. Everyone understands this but you. Really step off the high horse and defer to the club and land owners. It is simple to read between the lines. They more than once said they'd discuss it in person, but TRF and any other forum is not the appropriate place.
 
You really can't. I think it is more than obvious from Bob and Lance that they don't want to discuss the matter in a public forum. Everyone understands this but you. Really step off the high horse and defer to the club and land owners. It is simple to read between the lines. They more than once said they'd discuss it in person, but TRF and any other forum is not the appropriate place.

Agree with this 100%. The answer was not "because we said so". It was "Rather not discuss it here". I also detected a little "We can discuss hypotheticals to a point but this rule ain't changin' ". I have zero problem with any of this.
 
OK. I deleted all my posts in this. And I hope the thread gets yanked too.

Personally I get it... Did since I first saw the rule years ago. I'd just deal with that all differently.
 
I really don't understand all the hand wringing on this rule. It isn't your field. You don't know the whole story. Paint the metal bits. Move on.

Why is this so difficult?

-Dave
 
I've got another way to look at this. First, let's remember every inch of ground that we fly off of and recover from is owned by five or six different farmers not the government. We have absolutely no right to be there except these fine gentlemen ALLOW us to fly there. If one of them ever decides we are too much of a PITA to have around, it's very easy for him to get his neighbors to agree to throw us out and we have absolutely zero recourse.
Let's assume for a moment that one of these landowners didn't want us flying yellow rockets. The club would, of course, immediately ban yellow rockets from our launch site. Here at TRF, folks who have never flown at our site and may never do so in the future would state how "silly" the rule is as they were throwing out ideas as to why the rule was in place. Of course, virtually all of them have no real idea nor are they on the right track.
Back to the present, to fly exposed metal at the Rocket Pasture, it must be painted. If you try to do otherwise it won't get by RSO or our pad managers.
BTW, I had a guy "tell" me that he painted the tip with clear paint and that met the rule and there was nothing I could do about it. Big mistake!
Bob Brown
Prefect, Kloudbusters Inc.

Hi Bob,

I totally respect your point and the farmers, in that what the land owners say, goes, and there really is no room for discussion.

Having said that, when it comes to painting the metal tip of the rocket are there any restrictions on what paint is used and the flight?

To put some context to this. I am hoping to do my L3 on your field in 2017, possibly 2018, and the rocket that I will be flying will have a metal tip, however I will very infrequently have the opportunity to enjoy what I understand is quite an amazing field. Therefore for me to permanently paint a metal tip for the one or two flights would not be my preference. Based on this is it acceptable to use a water based paint? Hypothetically if someone had a metal tip painted and used a motor that resulted in a high Mach flight, it may end up removing some or even all of the paint. In that case how does the rule apply?
 
I really don't understand all the hand wringing on this rule. It isn't your field. You don't know the whole story. Paint the metal bits. Move on.

Why is this so difficult?

-Dave

Because it's obvious it's not that simple. You say "no metal fancans or nose tips" and no one is going to think twice. that makes sense. You say "paint all metal" and it's going to confuse people.

You jump on anyone who points out the obvious weirdness of a rule like that, and it just pisses people off.


The rule doesn't piss me off. How everyone acts about anyone questioning it does. It's literally a coverup.... I've never seen a single person deny that. But anyone who points out "hey thats...ummmm...." Is jumped on like they're insane and that this is totally a normal thing.
 
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Because it's obvious it's not that simple. You say "no metal fancans or nose tips" and no one is going to think twice. that makes sense. You say "paint all metal" and it's going to confuse people.

You jump on anyone who points out the obvious weirdness of a rule like that, and it just pisses people off.


The rule doesn't piss me off. How everyone acts about anyone questioning it does. It's literally a coverup.... I've never seen a single person deny that. But anyone who points out "hey thats...ummmm...." Is jumped on like they're insane and that this is totally a normal thing.

Oh...I see the problem. You're not paying attention. Let's try this again:

Q: Why do we have to paint the metal?

A: We don't want to explain it here. Perhaps you bring is some beer and we'll explain it out in the field.


Can we move on now????
 
Have any of you numb nuts heard of Xylene? It will remove almost any lacquer or enamel from an aluminum part (tip or whatever).
 
Have any of you numb nuts heard of Xylene? It will remove almost any lacquer or enamel from an aluminum part (tip or whatever).

Actually no dixontj93060 I have never heard of Xylene. That aside I really don't quite understand why you have to be rude, but if it makes you feel like a big man then fill yer boots!
 
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