13mm Aluminum Retainer.

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TopRamen

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There are a lot of small flashlights in danger of disassembly!

I'm coming for you 13mm Overbuilding Techniques!!!!

I have a really cheesy $1.34 LED flashlight that has a thin wall aluminum battery housing, and I can make the retention ring once I know the thread pitch.
They were $1.34, so I got three to tinker with.
 
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pictures please..

Sorry bout' that part. I misplaced my cameras memory card, and think I may have even thrown it out in the course of cleaning up my bench. I will obviously eventually post pics, but I need a new camera first.
 
The flashlights I intended to use, are a hair too small diameter wise, so I will have to bring a motor and my calipers with me and go to the store to see if I can find a different one. I'll go to the hardware store that I used to work at from 1996 til' 2002 running their sporting goods dept.
They won't mind if I carefully poke and prod at the selection of flashlights, where as opening them and taking measurements might not go over so well someplace like Walmart. They also have a killer selection of flashlights. There may also be a suitable option in their hardware section, as it is more of a department store.
I've pondered this for quite some time now, as I really like screw on retainers, so I have thought of a few items that may work, such as those little aluminum pill containers that they sell at the drug stores.
I'm not averse to having to hog out a little metal to make something work, but the threads have to stay fully intact.

And yes, I know that it is "Impractical".:wink:
 
Phone or tablet have camera?

I have a tracfone, and it does have a camera, but it does'nt download or link to my computer in any fashion, it's the chaepest phone you can get, and I only have it in case of emergencies. I have to buy minutes for it every couple of months to keep it active or it runs out of "service days", but I rarely use it.
My tablet has a camera, but I've never used it, because I tried once and the quality is horrible. I put tape over the lens to protect it and keep folks from seeing what it sees.

I can probably find a stock picture of the little keychain lights I was considering.

Yup, here it is:

Keychain Light.jpg
 
I just went over to the park near my house where I walk my Dog, and while we walked I noticed a small liquor bottle cap on the ground. The kind from the single serve bottles like you get on planes. These could have potential, but there are a multitude of variations in size, shape and thread pattern, not to mention materials.
I'de feel pretty awkward standing at the liquor store staring at the tiny bottles for minutes, but maybe I can just announce my intentions to the clerk so they don't think I'm acting suspiciously. I don't want to buy more than a few, as I may not drink them anyhow, but if I can get these samples, and find one that works, I would possibly go back and get a few more.
 
Using the flashlights is a good idea. I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been done before. But then, I've used several plastic bottles and PVC fitting but cheap flashlights never crossed my mind.
 
Using the flashlights is a good idea. I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been done before. But then, I've used several plastic bottles and PVC fitting but cheap flashlights never crossed my mind.

Thanks. If it can be accomplished with a cheap enough light, then I'll do it.
Were a proper 13mm retainer available from manufacturers, I would expect them to retail in the $6.99-$8.99 range, and possibly come in "Two-Packs".
This is just a side project, so I'm sure if I just keep my eyes open something will turn up that fits the need.
 
Funny timing...I've been working on 13mm retainers for the past few months and have tried several different types (all plastic). The trick is to find one with a ~13.5-14mm opening in the mouth as well as long enough threads (too short and then you can't have the motor extend out and you'll need pliers to remove).

I'll post some pics soon if possible, but one recent finding is the Head and Shoulders travel size bottles seem good. Some of the ones I'm trying/have tried needed slight sanding to widen the opening and others were a bit wider, so I used a dremel to gouge/roughen the inside for better grab. None have come off during ejection so far.

The flashlight idea sounds cool, so I hope it works out! :)
 
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Funny timing...I've been working on 13mm retainers for the past few months and have tried several different types (all plastic). The trick is to find one with a 14mm opening in the mouth as well as long enough threads (too short and then you can't have the motor extend out and you'll need pliers to remove).

I'll post some pics soon if possible, but one recent finding is the Head and Shoulders travel size bottles seem good. Some of the ones I'm trying/have tried needed slight sanding to widen the opening and others were a bit wider, so I used a dremel to gouge/roughen the inside for better grab. None have come off during ejection so far.

The flashlight idea sounds cool, so I hope it works out! :)

Sounds cool.
 
Here's some pics of the plastic retainers I've been testing...

*NOTE: These are for my custom mini builds using BT50 tubing, so many/most may be too large for your needs.

Some of the better results I've had include:
-Coghlan's 8525 Store & Pour Contain-Alls which I found a pack of what can be 5+ usable "retainers" (3 caps and 5 threaded bases) for $2 on clearance at Walmart (WDL & Mc below); however that's no longer available at that price, but is now $4.97, which isn't as good. Plastic is the softer type.
-Wilton 4.5oz squeeze bottles (WSB below). Plastic is a bit soft and cap is large; however I haven't had trouble. You can get a bucket of 18 for $10 Amazon Prime shipped, which is great. Additionally, the nozzle provides a good circle guide to cut out the hole, which I find annoying to mark on other caps. I may make mini kits with this as a retainer.
-6pc Glitter Mixing Tubes I recently found at A.C.Moore (Craft store chain) for $1.99/pack of 6, which is a great price even at retail. However it has the problem noted earlier where the cap has short threads and so you need pliers to remove the motor (fourth from left below).
-
2016-04-19%2012.51.42.jpg


The Head & Shoulders retainer is in the foreground and looks like it will work very well, but I haven't tested it yet.

Here's another pic of the Glitter tubes as well as yet another retainer I made from a bottle of eyedrops (the first one I made and it's still hanging on):
2016-04-19%2012.56.21.jpg


As a bonus, here's a GREAT 18mm retainer I recently discovered...the Method pump soap bottles work beautifully and the cap already has a hole (just pull the top off by hand and the bottom out with pliers):
2016-04-19%2012.55.39.jpg
 
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small liquor bottle cap on the ground. The kind from the single serve bottles like you get on planes. These could have potential, but there are a multitude of variations in size, shape and thread pattern, not to mention materials.
I went and compared two of these to some .50 cal pistol brass ; looks to be about 14mm OD. The variation on my small sample size was in the thickness of the neck material, which was quite high for both; I'd put the throat at ~9-11 mm.
 
I am intrigued with this problem. After the pill holders and flashlights, my next thought was to the bio/chemical analytic equipment. Unfortunately I do not have access to a screw-on vial, but standard glass vials (this one would be used for blood samples...tis for another project, no worries) with rubber caps seem to fit the 13mm engine quite well:

13mm.jpg

These look promising as well for the size desired: https://www.analytical-sales.com/13mm-Vials.html.

Tricks to making these motor retainers would be a) ensuring that the inner diameter is 13mm and not the OD and b) cutting through glass.

Sterile glass vials used for body fluid culture do have a black screw cap, although if i recall correctly those are a bit bigger. Will go hunting tonight. I'd imagine the glass would be OK in this endeavor, as the heat from the motors would not be in contact with the motors for long at all, and if hidden from an impact point (ie, not on the exterior of the BT) would fair well.

This weekend I'll purchase some nibs from the liquor store, and "make some measurements" in the "name of science" :p
 
Just a quick update that the inner diameter needed should be about 13.5mm for standard bt5 tubing (I earlier noted 14mm, but that's my guideline when looking for containers in packaging/with the caps on in the store).

Also I checked a small metal flashlight I have and the bt5 tubing does fit inside where the AA battery would go; however it is a bit loose, but I'd think JB weld would work to keep the retainer on. So the trick is to find a cheap enough metal flashlight which snugly fits an AA battery.

Additionally I did a quick search for plastic vials (made sure to "-glass" since we can't use that) with metal caps since that may be a possible alternative...plastic threaded end with metal cap. Tricky part is that it isn't very common and some of the ones I've found don't have good measurements. If they provide a width and show the open end, you can enlarge the pic and measure/ratio out the opening, but it's a tricky situation to get the right pic and measurements.

Let's do this! :grin:
 
Just a quick update that the inner diameter needed should be about 13.5mm for standard bt5 tubing (I earlier noted 14mm, but that's my guideline when looking for containers in packaging/with the caps on in the store).

Also I checked a small metal flashlight I have and the bt5 tubing does fit inside where the AA battery would go; however it is a bit loose, but I'd think JB weld would work to keep the retainer on. So the trick is to find a cheap enough metal flashlight which snugly fits an AA battery.

Additionally I did a quick search for plastic vials (made sure to "-glass" since we can't use that) with metal caps since that may be a possible alternative...plastic threaded end with metal cap. Tricky part is that it isn't very common and some of the ones I've found don't have good measurements. If they provide a width and show the open end, you can enlarge the pic and measure/ratio out the opening, but it's a tricky situation to get the right pic and measurements.

Let's do this! :grin:

hmmm, if glass is less favored (although I still think entertainable), I did some searching and came across something called "geocaching". It looks to be an advanced "hide and go seek", where caches are hidden throughout and are found by GPS. anyways, there are containers that may be looked into:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BBJFDTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (size of this is more suited for 18mm motors)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HU1V01K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 would fit the bill nicely if you had something in the ol' toolbox to cut through aluminum

Then I go back to the bioanalysis realm:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P2XSBMO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Idea : half of an aluminum pipe coupler + half of an aluminum pipe nipple? After bisecting the nipple, cut two notches in it so it can be turned by a large flathead / quarter / strong thumbnail?
 
hmmm, if glass is less favored (although I still think entertainable), I did some searching and came across something called "geocaching". It looks to be an advanced "hide and go seek", where caches are hidden throughout and are found by GPS. anyways, there are containers that may be looked into:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BBJFDTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (size of this is more suited for 18mm motors)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HU1V01K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 would fit the bill nicely if you had something in the ol' toolbox to cut through aluminum

Then I go back to the bioanalysis realm:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P2XSBMO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


I've actually had a couple of those tiny pill holders, as one of the camping gear places I used to order from gave you one free with each order, but had no idea there was such a great selection available.
I added a few of the cheapest ones to my wish list.

I was looking at fasteners like spring clips and what not too, but as far as "Plug and Play", meaning you only have to make a few cuts and drill a hole or three, these look like what we want, as they feature the knurling and whatnot. It's just a matter of finding the right one, and when I do, I'll do a build thread, detailing how much was cut, which I will be able to determine accurately now thanks to my recent purchase of a digital caliper.
 
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I have zero use for a 13mm retainer, but this thread still makes me want to go through every item at the dollar store to find something that'll work.

Someone please solve this so I can waste my time on other stuff. :-|
 
I have zero use for a 13mm retainer, but this thread still makes me want to go through every item at the dollar store to find something that'll work.

Someone please solve this so I can waste my time on other stuff. :-|

That sums up my position too. However, I'll have to concede that an aluminum one would be so much cooler.
 
Not to get side tracked from this side track, but I can't help but think that a tire valve stem cap, like the cheap shiny ones they sell at Walmart might possibly make a good MMX retainer. :rolleyes:

As for threading it onto the tube that holds the motor, I've devised something that may work.
You know the "Heli-Coil" you use to fix damaged threads? Like on a vehicle, when a bolt breaks off an you have to fix the buggered up threads after you drill it out?
what if you simply wound a fine wire around the outside of the motor tube to create external threads, the wire being retained by JB Weld.
You can prep the tube, apply the JB, wind the wire, and then, before it sets up too hard, wipe the excess away with a Q-tip dipped in acetone.
JB Weld by itsef can be drilled and tapped, but I think the wire would be a more longer lasting solution, and with practice could be adapted to various tubes.

Jeez, I have everything I need to try that.
 
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Holy Crap!!!


It works for MMX, and I screwed it onto a primed MMT on a scratch built, and the primer alone is enough to grab the threads!!!
Aluminum retainers for MMX!!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap:

This is good enough for me to use my crappy tablet to take a picture of!!!

BRB!
 
I got my Son to use his I pod to take the pics'. I have a metal one in the works, but here is a quicky plastic one I made from the standard plastic valve cap. Oh YEAH!!! Even fits the Teeny Triskellion!!!
To hell with tape!

It weighs 4 grams still, so I still did'nt overbuild it. My igniters still get right up in there, and I've taken to dipping them anyway, as these little suckers are a %&^*$ to ignite, even using methods detailed by MM.

IMG_0682.jpgIMG_0681.jpg


:headbang:
 
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I don't have any of the cheap "Faux Metal" ones from Walmart, but found a nice steel one and made it into a retainer. It works, and is beautiful, but it weigh 2-3 grams, so I won't be flying it for CG reasons. The plastic barely effects CG, and I'll fly it tomorrow with eye protection on to verify that it is safe. The loaded TT weighs the same, but my scale can't do anything smaller than a gram, as that was good enough resolution for my needs til' now.
 
The little MMX retainer looks great! :grin:

I don't have any of the cheap "Faux Metal" ones from Walmart, but found a nice steel one and made it into a retainer. It works, and is beautiful, but it weigh 2-3 grams, so I won't be flying it for CG reasons. The plastic barely effects CG, and I'll fly it tomorrow with eye protection on to verify that it is safe. The loaded TT weighs the same, but my scale can't do anything smaller than a gram, as that was good enough resolution for my needs til' now.

I was a bit concerned about the weight of the metal ones affecting CG as well and additionally I figured it would be tougher to get the hole drilled through the cap. I also looked at pill/gps containers at one point, but couldn't find ones cheap enough in the right size. Still, that sounds promising.

I did find some aluminum flashlights cheap enough off Ebay to give it a shot (under $3 for two, but ships slow boat from China)...I think it'll take a bunch of work if it can be done, but we'll see.
 
I have zero use for a 13mm retainer, but this thread still makes me want to go through every item at the dollar store to find something that'll work.

Someone please solve this so I can waste my time on other stuff. :-|

Consider it treasure hunting! :)

Actually i'd recommend you avoid this like the plague if you can...it can become a frustrating (and possibly costly) waste of time. I used to build custom RC cars and would spend days/months trying to find/figure out a single part. Not for those who wish to keep their sanity. :wink:
 
I tuned up the plastic retainer to make it as small as possible while maintaining functionality, and will fly it as is on the teeny triskellion, but when I was sleeping I devised a way to make proper threads in all MMX size motor tubes.
As expected, JB Weld will be used, but that idea about the revers Heli-Coil will not be necessary.
I will start with a fresh build, and a fresh un-primed tube. I will sand the outside of the tube down very carefully, using my caliper to ensure that I only remove the outer most 25% of the thickness. I'll then drill 4-5 tiny holes about 1 millimeter from the aft, that will form "Epoxy Rivets" of the JB.
Before application of the JB, I'll carefully harden the area with thin CA, to lock the fibers of paper into place to prevent the torsional forces of use from degrading the tube over time. I will allow this to fully cure and off-gas before proceeding to the JB Weld.
I will wrap some Teflon tape around a spent motor casing, and place it in the tube prior to applying the JB, so the internal surfaces are not to tricky to clean up after the epoxy has cured.
I'll mask off the portion of the MMT that I don't need threaded, as we won't want any mess that would add to the weigh unnecessarily.
After I get a layer of JB worked in, I will take one of those annoying "Whisps" of Fiber Glass cloth, likely jut from say 1oz. stuff, and cut it to the proper length and wrap it around the portion to be threaded, and press it gently into the JB. I've pressed individual FG fibers into JB Weld before for a couple tiny things and it has worked fine, but if I determine this to be a pain, I'll chop the single fiber into dust and press this into the JB instead.
When the JB is cured, and PRIOR to removing the masked motor, I will sand to proper spec. using my caliper to guide me, then use a thread cutting die of the appropriate aspect to render threads to the prepared portion of the tube.
Once the threads are cut, a drip of regular CA, and then a second run though the die should yield a nice finish.

This in my mind should be the most efficient and serviceable method for creating a repeatable and long lasting thread to screw the tiny retainers onto.:)

I first considered using Aluminum HVAC tape, but it is too thick, and I expect the glue would degrade over time, especially given the corrosive nature of the black powder residue.

I have drilled and tapped JB Weld in the past, but have never used it to render threads externally, yet at this tiny scale, and using the malleable plastic caps, I believe it will be efficient.

I'm designing a new model with enough length to give me a good stability margin to be able try different brands and styles of caps as a test platform.
A Micro-Grey Scale Zero.:) The BBZ design has stability coming out it's ears!
 
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