Wildman Rocketry Giveaway!


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  1. #1
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    TOGinator - 30 motor cluster - 5th flight

    The TOGinator will fly on a 30 motor cluster:
    27x Estes D12
    2x ProX H133 (29mm 3gr) Blue
    1x ProX I236 (38mm 3gr) Blue
    1200 Ns full J cluster with onboard video

    Going for its fifth flight Saturday, 7/17/10, at the CMASS launch in Amesbury, MA. Has fired 101 motors in the previous 4 flights.

    Rocket has a fin design based on the FlisKits TOG, is 7ft tall x 4in diameter and flies at about 14lbs.

    Pictures show rocket loaded with BP motors, AP motors not installed yet. Last pic shows 7ft main in deployment bag.

    More info and previous flight pictures at www.bpasa.com

    Will be fired with cluster box just built and tested which will push about 85A at 14V (1200W) to launch this. Powered by 14.8V 5Ah Lipo (4S 40C) battery, 200A Ford relay (triggered by a smaller relay to isolate from club launch system) and 10awg power leads. TRF thread: http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=11766

    Original thread on TOGinator: http://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/...ight=toginator

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    Last edited by delta22; 15th July 2010 at 06:30 AM.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  2. #2
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    Here's to a successful flight Boris!

    Chute Happens!!
    NAR 86940 L2
    TRA 12270 L3 09-01-12
    KF4GUL
    TeleTubby Fan, Unofficial King of Namby-Pamby Land

  3. #3
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    We're NOT worthy! (mentally insert your favorite "animated bowing in submission" icons here)
    Lee
    NAR 55948SR
    My Rocket Stuff

  4. #4
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    I always like hearing about this rocket...can't wait for the report (with photos and video, of course). [repeat bowing smilies]
    Dick Stafford
    The Original Rocket Dungeon
    Volunteer compiler of product news for ROCKETS Magazine

  5. #5
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    23rd March 2010
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    Dont Launch it to early, I dont want to miss it.
    Darrin Marriner


    TRA #13209 L2
    NAR #90955 L2

  6. #6
    troj's Avatar
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    That thing is just unreal!

    Out of curiosity, what's the white on the motors? is that tape?

    -Kevin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    6th March 2010
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    Now that I think about it....

    On a different thread, I stated I might stay away from the LCO duties this next launch.

    With the chance to announce this beast again, I may have to reconsider.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    28th July 2009
    Location
    Canton, MA
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    I look forward to seeing this flight on Saturday.
    Peter Waithe
    NAR 86455
    Level 1: 1/21/07
    Level 2: 9/13/08
    Level 3: 6/25/11


  9. #9
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    10th December 2009
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    Jacksonville FL
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    Ever since I've heard about this beautiful beast and seen it in the latest issue of SR, I've had a question- now is a great opportunity to ask.

    What is the purpose behind the four canted motors mounted forward on the body tube? Do they help stabilize or are they a 'just because we can' sort of thing?
    John B
    NAR 90381
    My Rocketry Gallery

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the kind words.

    Quote Originally Posted by troj View Post
    That thing is just unreal!

    Out of curiosity, what's the white on the motors? is that tape?

    -Kevin
    The white is masking tape used for motor retention. 19 of the lower motor mounts for 24mm engines are 1.75" long rings that allow the motors to hang out at both ends. The rings are cardboard with a thin fiberglass wrap.

    I call them engine bikinis, enough to get the job done, but not leaving much to the imagination

    The 3 AP motors have positive retention using screws.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon_rider10 View Post
    Ever since I've heard about this beautiful beast and seen it in the latest issue of SR, I've had a question- now is a great opportunity to ask.

    What is the purpose behind the four canted motors mounted forward on the body tube? Do they help stabilize or are they a 'just because we can' sort of thing?
    The first flight of the TOGinator recovered very fast and required a rebuild. The rebuild expanded the forward section to 4" diameter and added the 4 upper motor mounts purely for effect. They are pretty close to the rocket's CG and do not affect its stability.

    At the tail, the outboard clusters of 6 engines on each side are canted towards the rocket's CG, so the effect of any uneven motor ignition is minimized.

    In flight 3 at NERRF 5, a G71 outboard fired 2 seconds late, and an E15 catoed in one of the 4 upper motor mounts, but the flight was still stable and went over 1100ft.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  11. #11
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    18th January 2009
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    Only 30 motors?
    NAR L2 #84021
    Member SCRA #430

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelltym88 View Post
    Only 30 motors?
    You have to start somewhere. Now that Boris has a cluster box I'm sure he'll be looking to find the limits of that device.

  13. #13
    I have had my eye on that rocket ever since i first saw it.
    Cant wait to see it fly again. Those flames look ridiculous cool !

    I would not mind a highrespictire to print and hang at my desk

  14. #14
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    Now, whenever someone challenges me with a statement like "Why are you using a cluster when you can get the same thing done with ONE motor with greater reliability?", I show them a picture of the TOGinator in flight....

    You either "GET" clusters, or you don't... Simple as that

    jim

  15. #15
    troj's Avatar
    troj is offline Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potentate of Perilous Pans TRF_ADMIN.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflis View Post
    You either "GET" clusters, or you don't... Simple as that
    Like a lot of what we do, the answer to "why" on something like the Toginator, is "Because I can".

    Boris can, and it makes him happy to do it. Hmmmm... I'm failing to see any sort of problem with it.

    -Kevin

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflis View Post
    You either "GET" clusters, or you don't... Simple as that
    jim

    EXACTLY! Do the math. The wow factor goes up as the number of engines goes up. Two engines have 2x the wow factor of 1, 30 have 30x the wow factor of 1. Just like 6 Flags, more flags, more fun!

    I'll let you guys in on a little secret. If you really want to impress your wife or girl friend with your rockets, cluster them.

    Verna
    www.vernarockets.com

  17. #17
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    What about clustered and staged? The rocket in my avatar is Andy Woerners 1/16 scale 3 stage clustered rocket with I believe 30 J motors in the first stage. The best part was winning the raffle to push the button. It was the best rocket launch I have ever seen.
    Cert level: Jr. L1

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Neutron95;117009]What about clustered and staged?

    That sounds awesome! Got any photos?

    I've done 2 clustered and staged on a smaller scale.

    1. http://www.vernarockets.com/id25.html
    2. http://www.vernarockets.com/id3.html gotta go to the bottom of the page.

    Verna
    www.vernarockets.com

  19. #19
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    So, how did the flight go Boris?
    Chute Happens!!
    NAR 86940 L2
    TRA 12270 L3 09-01-12
    KF4GUL
    TeleTubby Fan, Unofficial King of Namby-Pamby Land

  20. #20
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    The flight went well. Maybe too well.

    The good news is that all 30 motors lit and there was a clean dual deploy recovery.

    The bad news is that sparks from the 4 upper motor igniters dropped into the tops of several lower D12-0 motors and it appears that about 20 motors burned at both ends as the rocket lifted off!

    All flame is supposed to be at the back of the rocket, the tail of the rocket is not supposed to be lit up like a barbecue. Several burning motors dropped onto the field and I had to stomp out flames caused by one.

    Used D12-0 motors for the first time on this rocket because Estes no longer makes the D11-P motors. Will have to cover the tops of these motors next time.
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    Last edited by delta22; 18th July 2010 at 05:48 PM.
    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  21. #21
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    Another way of looking at it is that there were 50 ignition events on one launch, despite the rocket having 30 igniters and motors.

    Unfortunately the onboard video camera quit on me one more time, even after repeated tests on the ground. Definitely time for a plan B on that one.

    Damage to tail is moderate. Will require a little fiberglass and a lot of paint before flying again, probably in October or November.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  22. #22
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    Despite the creative approach to burning the BP motors at both ends, the power of the central I and outboard H motors sent the rocket up quickly to 1343ft.

    Thanks to Curtis Heisey for these two pictures.
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    Boris Katan
    NAR / TRA L3
    Lots of fun cluster rocket pictures and video at: www.bpasa.com

  23. #23
    awesome Boris. The first picture almost give the 2canted outboards a purple hue to me. Very cool!

    Ben
    Ben Ullman

    High Power rockets are my life!
    Largest EX motor to date N3200 Wicked White!!

    41,055Ns This year

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by delta22 View Post
    The flight went well. Maybe too well.

    Used D12-0 motors for the first time on this rocket because Estes no longer makes the D11-P motors. Will have to cover the tops of these motors next time.
    Hmmm... the D11-P are listed in the Estes 2010 catalog, I wonder if they will come back?

    Nice flight!!

  25. #25
    Join Date
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    I don't know how I missed this flight. I was waiting for it and wanted to take several pictures of it.
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  26. #26
    do you have video of the rocket from the ground

  27. #27
    What type of video camera was used on board? Do you know when it stopped recording?

    Bob

  28. #28
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    Evidently there was more than one small fire. I thought I was going to get a chance to try out the new fire brooms that the NAR paid for but it was stomped it out before I got there. Alan did give us lessons on the proper way to use the brooms for the next time.

    Open the battery compartment on your camera and see if it has springy contacts. If it does, jam a piece of cardboard behind the battery so it can't move. That did the trick on one of my cameras.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflis View Post
    Now, whenever someone challenges me with a statement like "Why are you using a cluster when you can get the same thing done with ONE motor with greater reliability?", I show them a picture of the TOGinator in flight....

    You either "GET" clusters, or you don't... Simple as that

    jim
    Yep, so true. Besides, look at the Saturn 1B and V -- NASA was into clusters too. And the Russians were insane over clusters -- the N1's full name I think was actually the N1 TOGinatoreyevich.
    Last edited by Trident; 19th July 2010 at 12:34 AM.
    Lee
    NAR 55948SR
    My Rocket Stuff

  30. #30
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    24th January 2009
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    I wish I could have been there to see that flight!!! Unfortunately I had to miss this weekends launch because I had surgery on my shoulder this past week and wasn't quite up to the drive and the day in the field. I'll be looking forward to the next time though!!!

    Dan Castle
    NAR # 77391 L1
    CMASS Member
    SAM 0053

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