MMX Motor Issue I'm Having

Micromiester, you'll be along shortly to answer this definitively and I'd appreciate it, but I'm sure other folks here will like to discuss this subject with me too, so I started this thread.
I go to order motors from places, but it never tells me if I'm getting the ones or the twos.
Are both still available, or is there only one model of MMX Motor made now.
Openrocket lets me do sims on four different types, but we know that is'nt the case.
I really want to order motors, but which version am I getting from places like E-Rockets, who currently has/had 1 available for like $9 =3something S&H.

I make the mistake of ordering stuff I don't need often enough.
I just want to know which I'll be getting, and if the two versions, I and II are still what's available.

Even the Quest site just says there's only one type.https://www.questaerospace.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=5631


Did I miss the bus here like I did with the 13mm SU Composite offerings from Apogee and Aerotech that used to be available?

It would be nice to atleast have 2 options, and if I can't, then I'm going to revisit my days as an amatuer pyrotechnician and try to make either a lower or higher flying version of whatever I end up with in a commercial offering.
I won't talk about what I used to do with rolling craft paper tubes out of paper bags for making bottle rockets, as it is not allowed, but I'll just do it and not talk about it here.

Either way, I'de just appreciate a simple answer, as a search here did not turn up much, and I have too many "Irons in the fire" to waste much time hurting my head over this.

Thanks in advance, and like I said, I promise not to talk about it to anyone if I go rogue, but if you see an MMX of mine go a lot higher than it should in a launch video, just don't ask questions.

I know what I can accomplish at that scale, especially if there is not the weight of a report or wooden dowel.

I just went ahead and got the last remaining 6 pack of MMX from E-Rockets through Amazon, but just incase I also added a pound of Bentonite clay powder from an "Industrial and Scientific" Vendor for another $3.
I already have all the other things I might need to roll my own, but I have six Cats, and I can't bring myself to repurpose their Cat Litter.:wink:

I guess it is no small wonder, no pun intended, that folks don't pursue MMX stuff, but I'm having an absolute hoot with it, and wish that there were more than six people that posted in this section.
Estes should start making MMX Motors is what I think.
If Aerotech gets in on the action....

Anyhow, I had my tooling made and tested my "What I think MMX Motors are", before I even started this thread.
I can't talk about my findings because my research was research, and while successful, would only invite questions whose answers would equal violations of policy.

The Micro Maxx seems to be a dying line of Model Rocketry, and I think that that sucks. I'm just barely getting into it, and think I would have enjoyed it quite a bit, but it seems that the motor selection is limited to one or none, which means I'll have to either go my own way or not go at all, since I am more interested in Aerodynamics and how they correspond to the images in my head.
I can't face the thought of building something for enjoyment if it can only face one singular variable in it's terminal phase.
I really want to enjoy the micro stuff, but just one motor to feed them all? Especially when it has been shown that other designs work?
LUNACY!!!!

Did you count me among the tiny few that post here? lol I'm about to start and already I'm on the losing end.

I've seen a total of three motors listed. MMX I, MMX II, and MMX-NE. The problem I see is, the MMX-NE has a delay and no ejection charge. Obviously the NE stages, else it wouldn't be used. Now as I enter the fray, motors seem impossible to acquire. That doesn't bode well for me.

And on the note of motors, are they BP or a composite? I would think BP since they come from Quest.

Considering the current motor, there seems to be limited ways to expand on this. Pretty much the only options are a propellant reformulation, or a motor length extension. I suppose they could shorten the propellant grain, or manufacture a smaller diameter. If they were to increase the diameter, they'd pretty much must be making mini engines and not micros. So what's our solution?

Should I abandon my interest in these and just build mini rockets? That would put me using only BT-5 and BT-20 tubes. Not the worst option, but then we're back to mini, not micro.

I'm depressed now.

Kruegon said:

Did you count me among the tiny few that post here? lol I'm about to start and already I'm on the losing end.

I've seen a total of three motors listed. MMX I, MMX II, and MMX-NE. The problem I see is, the MMX-NE has a delay and no ejection charge. Obviously the NE stages, else it wouldn't be used. Now as I enter the fray, motors seem impossible to acquire. That doesn't bode well for me.

And on the note of motors, are they BP or a composite? I would think BP since they come from Quest.

Considering the current motor, there seems to be limited ways to expand on this. Pretty much the only options are a propellant reformulation, or a motor length extension. I suppose they could shorten the propellant grain, or manufacture a smaller diameter. If they were to increase the diameter, they'd pretty much must be making mini engines and not micros. So what's our solution?

Should I abandon my interest in these and just build mini rockets? That would put me using only BT-5 and BT-20 tubes. Not the worst option, but then we're back to mini, not micro.

I'm depressed now.

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No! It's all good, I was just worried about the health of this section of the sport, and nobody says anything!
We need to do something to keep it alive!

Have you looked at https://fliskits.com/products/01prod_fs.htm for motors?

We need to be rocketry promotion politicians.

There are sections of this hobby that died before I got here, so I never even got to participate!!!!

I'm late to the game, I get it, but I still want to do these things, and many more things!

I'm building a Lathe to make 13mm Casings, but if it fails, you'll never hear about it.
I build a LOT of un-mentionables.:wink:

I think I ordered some T2 tubing from balsa machining. I gave it away. I thought it was 1/4" launch lug stock, but it was really thin.

The small guys take a lot of care / patience to build. I have enough trouble with 3" diameter as that gets tough to reach my arm into.

Kruegon said:

Did you count me among the tiny few that post here? lol I'm about to start and already I'm on the losing end.

I've seen a total of three motors listed. MMX I, MMX II, and MMX-NE. The problem I see is, the MMX-NE has a delay and no ejection charge. Obviously the NE stages, else it wouldn't be used. Now as I enter the fray, motors seem impossible to acquire. That doesn't bode well for me.

And on the note of motors, are they BP or a composite? I would think BP since they come from Quest.

Considering the current motor, there seems to be limited ways to expand on this. Pretty much the only options are a propellant reformulation, or a motor length extension. I suppose they could shorten the propellant grain, or manufacture a smaller diameter. If they were to increase the diameter, they'd pretty much must be making mini engines and not micros. So what's our solution?

Should I abandon my interest in these and just build mini rockets? That would put me using only BT-5 and BT-20 tubes. Not the worst option, but then we're back to mini, not micro.

I'm depressed now.

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One should only ever renew interests, never re-think.

TopRamen said:

We need to be rocketry promotion politicians.

There are sections of this hobby that died before I got here, so I never even got to participate!!!!

I'm late to the game, I get it, but I still want to do these things, and many more things!

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18mm AT motors (D10 / D21) are tough enough to get igniters into. 13mm would be really rough. Can't imagine MMX. I sold my 18/20 casings are reloads to a local member because I hated dealing with them. You pretty much need to build the motor with the igniter in it. I think they'd be cool items for in my motor collection though.

Alright already!
What it comes down to is that a lack of "Motor Diversity" here is costing the price of new ownership of the rocketry industry.
Folks are afraid of Rockets, Manly-Men and Women alike. It's a Wonder I still like the $%*&@#$ Things after having so many that were warhead equipped fired directly at me.
107mm, Frog, SCUD, RPG, all Mortars, IEDs'.
Gets old after awhile.

It's MMX and it needs an Epinephrine shot.:headbang::headbang:

Nobody fulfills this market???

I've seen some pretty radical stuff here like CF Airframed MMX stuff, so they must have made a motor, and cared about performance characteristics at scale. A most worthy pursuit.

Was Quest bought by Aerotech? I don't remember, but I thought I heard something like that in the Q2G2 discussions.

Not sure what kind of altitude they get. I wonder if you can put them on a straw and launch them with a blast from an air compressor?

cavecentral said:

Was Quest bought by Aerotech? I don't remember, but I thought I heard something like that in the Q2G2 discussions.

Not sure what kind of altitude they get. I wonder if you can put them on a straw and launch them with a blast from an air compressor?

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Yeah, apparently so, but because no one was interested in them in the first place, the Quest brand suffered the worst of it.
I'de really like to see the re-birth of the smallest stuff to excite folks about introducing their children into rocketry and to make the kids think scientifically.
Rocketry made me who I am!

I know Quest was sold. I heard that Estes got them. Made sense. BP motor company and BP motor company.

As others have already posted there are currently 3 micro maxx motors.
The original run MMX-I motor: Quest Cat No. 5662 is the older 1/8A.2-1 .163 Ns with .913s to 1.07s delay. - Brown Plastic Casing.
Latest Run MMX-II motor: Quest Cat No. 5663 or 5131 1/8A.5-1 .284 Ns with .854s Delay. -Dk Grey wound paper casing
After Market MMX-II-NE motor Quest Cat No 5665 1/8A,5-1 .284 Ns with .854s Delay- NO Ejection. - Also Dk Grey Wound Paper casing. Used as a Booster motor for clusters, Staging & Saucers. To make them instantly different from MMX-II motors I used a Red Permenant Magic Marker to "Paint" my 144 MMX-II-NE motors. Sure makes it easier to grab the right one out in the field.

You'll find most of the older brown Plastic casing motors at less used vendors and Quest HAS some but you have to talk to customer service by voice to get them.
If you order by Quest catalog number you generally get the motor listed.
I alway buy in 72motor (12 -6pks) cases just to avoid such ID problems and to get the very best price possible.
Last time I orginized a Group order for our club. we ordered 12 cases of MMX-II motors through our local Hobby Shop. this not only got us away from paying the high cost of shipping but the order got us these 5663 MMX-II motor at .42cents per motor. Ya just can't beat that any way you go.

My understanding is that AT bought Quest Aerospace as Quests Website now shows a number of AT kits and motors.

I haven't heard a word, from anyone on weather the line will continue or not but I for one have above a 1000 motors stock piled so I don't think I'll be hurt in the short term.

Edit: I guess I should have added a couple photos of these motors. I'll add them now.

So I can only get one MMX motor now, aside from the Fliskits plugged, no eject version?
My version is "No Eject" too, so I won't be ordering those.

I'm going to have to look at these rockets as worse than 13mm when it comes to the re-usability.

More than once have I lost a Mosquito, Quark, or 220 Swift.
Good thing there is BMS for all my tubing and balsa needs, but I have learned from the likes of Micromiester to make fins out of paper, so more to come on that later. I've got some really cool plans for stuff coming up.

I just made some mini BBZ fins for a BT-5 build using a Paper Cardstock model as a template. I put a tiny balsa spline in the fins to make them airfoiled, then joined the edges with regular CA. OMG it was awesome, and I'll get around to doing a build thread on these, as they look amazing!

Micromiester is to Micro what Sodmiester is to MPR, a real inspiration for someone like me, and thankfully, he sometimes shares his techniques, which I really appreciate.

Kruegon said:

Did you count me among the tiny few that post here? lol I'm about to start and already I'm on the losing end.

I've seen a total of three motors listed. MMX I, MMX II, and MMX-NE. The problem I see is, the MMX-NE has a delay and no ejection charge. Obviously the NE stages, else it wouldn't be used. Now as I enter the fray, motors seem impossible to acquire. That doesn't bode well for me.

And on the note of motors, are they BP or a composite? I would think BP since they come from Quest.

Considering the current motor, there seems to be limited ways to expand on this. Pretty much the only options are a propellant reformulation, or a motor length extension. I suppose they could shorten the propellant grain, or manufacture a smaller diameter. If they were to increase the diameter, they'd pretty much must be making mini engines and not micros. So what's our solution?

Should I abandon my interest in these and just build mini rockets? That would put me using only BT-5 and BT-20 tubes. Not the worst option, but then we're back to mini, not micro.

I'm depressed now.

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Ofcourse I counted you, as you've started some inspiring threads here lately!
You are probably half the reason I'm making tiny tail cones and mini-motors!
If nobody is having fun with it and talking about it, it is not as fun as when they are.

I have not received my Quest motors yet, but I think that I can improve upon the concept greatly once I have them to compare with.
If I create something great, I'll contact Quest and inform them of my findings.

Here's my Motor, even though I can't discuss how I made it.
The rules don't say I can't show it off.:wink:

TopRamen said:

The rules don't say I can't show it off.:wink:

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You show off!

Kruegon said:

You show off!

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They are not that great, but they are fun.
The reason they are not that great without getting into research stuffs or violating rule things is that it is incredibly hard to get repeatable results.
I have the tooling now to make them, but the process evolves beyond the tooling's capability for accurate measurement and repeatability.
They can be done efficiently some day, but right now they are a novelty, and I won't actually fly them in a rocket. They would only lawn dart anyhow.
Even now, I will only fire them from 30 feet away with my Aerotech controller and Eye Protection.
Don't need to make the Hobby look bad.:wink:

Well, repeatability is the second step. The first step is getting a stable burn. Sounds like you're approaching things right. Safety first.

ADMIN: Delete the following if it breaks the rules. As I understand the rules, this should not.

The ejection charge should be easy. Delays are sold by the stick. Perhaps you could core one and slice thin disks as a delay. And all ejection charges are just BP anyway.

What are you using to create a nozzle for the thrust? No details. Just curious if it's a milled material like graphite or a formed material like clay.

I'm very curious about EX motors but I'm no where close yet. Not a TRA member yet and not L2 yet either. But soon on both.

I'd really like to see you succeed here. Perhaps you can bring a new stage to MMX. Not to mention your current efforts are promising as an EX booster motor… Something to think about.

Kruegon said:

ADMIN: Delete the following if it breaks the rules. As I understand the rules, this should not.

The ejection charge should be easy. Delays are sold by the stick. Perhaps you could core one and slice thin disks as a delay. And all ejection charges are just BP anyway.

What are you using to create a nozzle for the thrust? No details. Just curious if it's a milled material like graphite or a formed material like clay.

I'm very curious about EX motors but I'm no where close yet. Not a TRA member yet and not L2 yet either. But soon on both.

I'd really like to see you succeed here. Perhaps you can bring a new stage to MMX. Not to mention your current efforts are promising as an EX booster motor… Something to think about.

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Even for Tripoli, they do not allow research BP motors. I stopped pursuing them when I learned I couldn't use them at the club launches. Learning about those is something you need to do on a fireworks forum. APCP is the main pony discussed in the research forum here.

cavecentral said:

Even for Tripoli, they do not allow research BP motors. I stopped pursuing them when I learned I couldn't use them at the club launches. Learning about those is something you need to do on a fireworks forum. APCP is the main pony discussed in the research forum here.

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Unless I missed it, I didn't recall seeing him say what propellant he was using. Technically can't be discussed here. I'm familiar with the basic idea of EX propellant. Mostly ACPC but also some sugar propellants and a few other cocktails have been mentioned.

I'm more curious about the methodology he used than the formulations. Don't want to break the rules or laws on this. Just seems a tough design to build such small motors without the higher end machinery.

Kruegon said:

Unless I missed it, I didn't recall seeing him say what propellant he was using. Technically can't be discussed here. I'm familiar with the basic idea of EX propellant. Mostly ACPC but also some sugar propellants and a few other cocktails have been mentioned.

I'm more curious about the methodology he used than the formulations. Don't want to break the rules or laws on this. Just seems a tough design to build such small motors without the higher end machinery.

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Smaller is tougher in most cases. Some people like a challenge.

Yeah, I can't discuss ANY of the aspects of making these to stay within the rules.
You can see videos on youtube or go to the amateur pyrotechnics sites as cave suggested.
When I was a Gun Salesman, one of my customers was a licensed pyrotechnician. We'd go shooting together, and he had a really cool workshop for making fireworks at this house. He taught me how to make a few things from scratch, like bottlerockets and the like. I figure these are smaller, and I feel safe working at his scale. Anything larger I'll just buy or make cases and do like the rest of the folks here, use AP.
My MMX motors should be here today anyhow, so I'll be able to fly now, and that should keep me from having to develop this time consuming project any further.
I also have to fix my truck today, so I'll be busy enough with things.

TopRamen said:

Yeah, I can't discuss ANY of the aspects of making these to stay within the rules.
You can see videos on youtube or go to the amateur pyrotechnics sites as cave suggested.
When I was a Gun Salesman, one of my customers was a licensed pyrotechnician. We'd go shooting together, and he had a really cool workshop for making fireworks at his house. He taught me how to make a few things from scratch, like bottlerockets and the like. I figure these are smaller, and I feel safe working at his scale. Anything larger I'll just buy or make cases and do like the rest of the folks here, use AP.
My MMX motors should be here today anyhow, so I'll be able to fly now, and that should keep me from having to develop this time consuming project any further.
I also have to fix my truck today, so I'll be busy enough with things.

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Have to agree with you on not going further making MMX motors. I have also dabbled with this some time back, As you mention the problem is it is a very time consuming project.
It is also my understanding the Quest is NOT even thinking about dropping the line. So there really should be no problem buying MMX-II and MMX-II-NE booster motors for the foreseeable furture.

Can't wait for you to see the Altitude you'll get out of real MMX-II motors.

I will suggest using 2" or less bent bare nichrome wire igniter or Quest MMX Q2 starters using the old wadding ball retaining technique over the little brown tubes, but that is up to you. I'd also suggest using a 12V gel-Cell battery for the easiest and consistant Launch success.

Hope you get the truck fixed quickly.

I'm hoping to launch a few more Nanorail / Nano rail button micros this weekend. I'll take some static and attempt to catch some liftoff pics but because these little motors are so quick i've had a hard time catching them off the rail.

Micromeister said:

I'm hoping to launch a few more Nanorail / Nano rail button micros this weekend. I'll take some static and attempt to catch some liftoff pics but because these little motors are so quick i've had a hard time catching them off the rail.

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Another option to consider. High frame rate video. Then you can extract frames.

Micromeister said:

Have to agree with you on not going further making MMX motors. I have also dabbled with this some time back, As you mention the problem is it is a very time consuming project.
I is also my understanding the Quest is NOT even thinking about dropping the line. So there really should be no problem buying MMX-II and MMX-II-NE booster motors for the foreseeable furture.

Can't wait for you to see the Altitude you'll get out of real MMX-II motors.

I will suggest using 2" or less bent bare nichrome wire igniter or Quest MMX Q2 starters using the old wadding ball retaining technique over the little brown tubes, but that is up to you. I'd also suggest using a 12V gel-Cell battery for the easiest and consistant Launch success.

Hope you get the truck fixed quickly.

I'm hoping to launch a few more Nanorail / Nano rail button micros this weekend. I'll take some static and attempt to catch some liftoff pics but because these little motors are so quick i've had a hard time catching them off the rail.

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Thanks.
I was able to get one hub assembly swapped out today, but once I got it all back together, the lug nuts would not go over the guide portion of the lugs, so I used my digital caliper and found the guide portion to be oversized by .25mm. I put tape on the threads to protect them, then it took me about an hour to get each one into proper spec to match the lugs on the old assembly so that the nuts would go on. What a pain.
Had to spend some time in my inversion table after that whole debacle, and the other assembly is the same, but I can work it on my bench while sitting comfortably before I do the other side, so I don't have to do it with it installed. Thanks to my calipers I can do this to the same specs I did today to get the other one to work. Atleast now there is no squeek and the ABS light is off, so I can go places again!!

Thanks for the tips about ignition.