Micro Shrouds

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Kruegon

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
1,885
Reaction score
5
The longer I look at this, the more interested I am. But some of it is intimidating.

I'm looking at doing scale micros. The AIM-120 and the MIM-23A. Both of these have tail cones. Seems they're going to have to be paper shrouds.

Any good advice on how to make shrouds this small? Seems they'll be made basically the same way, but the tab area feel like it'd be less forgiving.
 
I'd make a paper cone with a point and just cut the section you need. Doesn't take long to try a few different ones...just need a compass or any round disc object to trace and then cut a line from the center and just roll the edges till it is to the ratio you want, glue, cut off any excess.
 
The longer I look at this, the more interested I am. But some of it is intimidating.

I'm looking at doing scale micros. The AIM-120 and the MIM-23A. Both of these have tail cones. Seems they're going to have to be paper shrouds.

Any good advice on how to make shrouds this small? Seems they'll be made basically the same way, but the tab area feel like it'd be less forgiving.


Paper and Light cardstock (67lb) Boattail Shrouds and all manor of transitions can be done with good results but do take a bit more time than larger shrouds. Just about any of the Shroud generator programs do a decent job if you input the proper dimensions.
That said; It really depends on the scale you are building. Some of the smaller shrouds below BT-5 are actually easier to turn in Basswood, drilling out the motor core to pass the MMX-II motor tube (T2+) .281". That is what I did on my T3 AIM -120a and quite a few of my other scratch built Micro models.
 
The smallest transition I've made for a flying model is on my AIM-120 which is 13mm X BT-20.
It would be doable at a smaller scale I suppose, and even easier to make in some cases if you use something like the pointy side of a nice Pen as a mandrel, make the cone on it, then cut the cone to the right shape afterwards.

TAILconeDoNe13mmamraam 003.jpgStupid Tailcone!! 001.jpgStupid Tailcone!! 002.jpg
 
And don't forget the very best thing about paper parts!
They can be printed again and again til' you get them right!
 
Got my starters, I believe I am going to play with the BT-5 stuff. It's a tube size that I'm familiar with already. Usually I'm working my way up on size. It's going to be interesting working my way down.

My current list for starting is:

AIM-120
AIM-54
Patriot PAC-1
Patriot PAC-3

I'm considering a PAC-2, but it's just a PAC-1 with a different color and decal scheme. Seems redundant to me. I'm building a HoJo fleet already, so you can guess that I'm going to be adding that one too. I'd like to build a BT-5 version, but I can't find a BNC-5 cone for it.
 
Got my starters, I believe I am going to play with the BT-5 stuff. It's a tube size that I'm familiar with already. Usually I'm working my way up on size. It's going to be interesting working my way down.

My current list for starting is:

AIM-120
AIM-54
Patriot PAC-1
Patriot PAC-3

I'm considering a PAC-2, but it's just a PAC-1 with a different color and decal scheme. Seems redundant to me. I'm building a HoJo fleet already, so you can guess that I'm going to be adding that one too. I'd like to build a BT-5 version, but I can't find a BNC-5 cone for it.

You could make a nose cone.
 
You could make a nose cone.

Not sure I'm quite ready to start turning my own cones. It's something I plan to learn one day, but just not yet. Besides, Fliskits carries two sizes already. Just not BT-5.
 
I'd make a paper cone with a point and just cut the section you need. Doesn't take long to try a few different ones...just need a compass or any round disc object to trace and then cut a line from the center and just roll the edges till it is to the ratio you want, glue, cut off any excess.

No love for my tips? ;)

Would pics help? I did this in about two minutes...

1) draw a circle

2016-04-09%2000.01.54.jpg


2) Cut out said beautiful circle and cut a line in to the center

2016-04-09%2000.03.31.jpg


3a) Roll up the circle into a cone. If doing a flatter cone, just roll a bit. If doing a multi-layer narrow cone, you can roll up more....

2016-04-09%2000.04.46.jpg


3b) if you want a narrower cone without too many layers, you can cut the circle in half or thereabouts...

2016-04-09%2000.05.41.jpg


4) Glue, measure and mark off the section you need, cut as needed. Easy peasy.

2016-04-09%2000.06.10.jpg


Have fun! :)
 
Last edited:
KenECoyote:
It's not that we have a problem with your Tips, but many of us do have other more accurate ways of dealing with paper or other material transitions;)

Back in the Stone Age BC (Before Computers) 30-80's:) Sheet Metal and Duct Work Mechanics worked out their Transitions and Cones in the flat by the method shown in the Stepped graph below before ever touching a piece of metal. Actrually this technique is still used often today.

Start at the bottom of the page working toward the top to layout a complete and accurate transition in any size from .281" to over 10feet. All that is needed is a compass (Beam Compass for Huge layouts), ruler & straight edge, graph paper or chalk grid layed out on the floor. and three dimensions. base diameter, top diameter and height of the transitions.

Only takes a little more time then cutting your circles, with a much closer to the finished product tolerences once you've done one or two.
Hope this helps.

Draft development for Transitions & Cones (Labled)_05-87.jpg
 
Last edited:
Let's try making one with a Payloadbay transition.:) 5mmx3mmx3mm.


Tiny Transition 2002-12-31 001.jpg

I've made this transition, and while it was challenging, it turned out great. I'll take a picture to share when the camera battery is done charging. It is too small for pretty much anything, but if they can be made this small, then they can certainly be made easily for MMX sized rockets.
This entire transition fits inside the motor tube of my Fliskits Teeny Triskelion.
It is too tiny to make a tab for it, so I had to just prepare it precisely and join the edges with CA.
 
Last edited:
Let's try making one with a Payloadbay transition.:) 5mmx3mmx3mm.


View attachment 287655

I've made this transition, and while it was challenging, it turned out great. I'll take a picture to share when the camera battery is done charging. It is too small for pretty much anything, but if they can be made this small, then they can certainly be made easily for MMX sized rockets.
This entire transition fits inside the motor tube of my Fliskits Teeny Triskelion.
It is too tiny to make a tab for it, so I had to just prepare it precisely and join the edges with CA.

That is not a bad idea at all. BT-5, true scale, AIM-120 is now possible. Seems like CA is going to become my friend now.
 
KenECoyote:
It's not that we have a problem with your Tips, but many of us do have other more accurate ways of dealing with paper or other material transitions;)

Back in the Stone Age BC (Before Computers) 30-80's:) Sheet Metal and Duct Work Mechanics worked out their Transitions and Cones in the flat by the method shown in the Stepped graph below before ever touching a piece of metal. Actrually this technique is still used often today.

Start at the bottom of the page working toward the top to layout a complete and accurate transition in any size from .281" to over 10feet. All that is needed is a compass (Beam Compass for Huge layouts), ruler & straight edge, graph paper or chalk grid layed out on the floor. and three dimensions. base diameter, top diameter and height of the transitions.

Only takes a little more time then cutting your circles, with a much closer to the finished product tolerences once you've done one or two.
Hope this helps.

I fully understand! :)

I work all day on a computer, so I build rockets to get away from that* and whenever I can make a part myself, I enjoy it much more than spending the time jumping back on the computer to find/make it and print it out...almost like carving/sculpting something opposed to 3D printing it or painting rather than a body wrap. Each has it's benefits, but the real point is that the builder enjoys the process. :)

BTW - I was on as a guest yesterday and didn't see the pics...are they visible?

*Note: TRF and rocket shopping are exclusions to the "get away from the computer" point since it's not anything like work! ;)
 
Last edited:
Wow! That is micro! Looks great! :)

Thanks.
I was actually bummed when I was done with it because it is too small for flying models.
After it was made, I rolled it around on a pen that was the same size to get it round before the soak. Once it was dry again I stuck a Q-tip in the large end to allow me to drag-sand it to get the small end looking so uniform. I was able to control it on 320 grit paper with the Q-tip inserted quite easily, and it was hard enough that I only had to stick the Q-tip on the small end a drag it around a little more on the big side to get that smooth.
 
Yeap That's a good way to make display Nozzles and other SteamPunk tubes, Gauges and other tiny parts. I have a static display nozzle for my minimum diameter T2+ Interceptor that was made exactly that same way. Most of the models below have very tiny paper transitions on T2+ or T2 tubes (Orbital Transport Glider). The Point is all 67lb Cardstock CA soaked. as are the Transitions and boattail cones on the Micro Laser-X. Assateague Lighthouse is all 67lb cardstock construction with a little bit of clear plastic tube for the LED lite night light. for the most part I use medium CA to soak my paper and rolled cardstock parts. It's a little easier to handle on a folded paper towel mop. Helps get the CA on evenly.

MM 220a2_OrbitalTransportPlanCover_11-12-99.jpg
 
Yeap That's a good way to make display Nozzles and other SteamPunk tubes, Gauges and other tiny parts. I have a static display nozzle for my minimum diameter T2+ Interceptor that was made exactly that same way. Most of the models below have very tiny paper transitions on T2+ or T2 tubes (Orbital Transport Glider). The Point is all 67lb Cardstock CA soaked. as are the Transitions and boattail cones on the Micro Laser-X. Assateague Lighthouse is all 67lb cardstock construction with a little bit of clear plastic tube for the LED lite night light. for the most part I use medium CA to soak my paper and rolled cardstock parts. It's a little easier to handle on a folded paper towel mop. Helps get the CA on evenly.

Those are pretty awesome right there.

I really have to try that 67lb. cardstock, but we don't have it around every corner here and Staples is the only place local that carries it. I always forget to get some, but now that I'm having some fun with paper parts and small models it is about time.
I was just trying to build a printed cardstock model the other day, and found myself wanting for a lighter paper.
even though I can usually get good parts with #110, it definitely is not for everything, as I find out more and more the more stuff I make from Cardstock. I recently tried Bristol Board for the first time, but really don't like it, as it would not absorb anything, even though it brags on the cover of being just plain paper and free of this or that. I know there are other kinds, so I look forward to trying them too.
67lb stuff is definitely next on my list now however, as long as I can find it affordably or on Amazon.
 
Those are pretty awesome right there.

I really have to try that 67lb. cardstock, but we don't have it around every corner here and Staples is the only place local that carries it. I always forget to get some, but now that I'm having some fun with paper parts and small models it is about time.
I was just trying to build a printed cardstock model the other day, and found myself wanting for a lighter paper.
even though I can usually get good parts with #110, it definitely is not for everything, as I find out more and more the more stuff I make from Cardstock. I recently tried Bristol Board for the first time, but really don't like it, as it would not absorb anything, even though it brags on the cover of being just plain paper and free of this or that. I know there are other kinds, so I look forward to trying them too.
67lb stuff is definitely next on my list now however, as long as I can find it affordably or on Amazon.

While your looking for Lighter papers you might want to try Tracing Vellum. Staples, Micheals, and other art supply stores carry lots of different Vellums some in colors. I also use a lot of very thin onion skin tracing paper for small parts then Medium CA them into a phenolic hardness.
The tracing vellums also come in several colors. below are a few pics of competition 1/8A Parachute and Streamer duration models made entirely of these films.

MM 216a2_ type-c TaperPaper PD 12in chute_07-01-04.jpg

MM 216a3-sm_d-e&f PD 12-24in chute_08-27-04.jpg

MM 216a4-sm_a-g Taper&Doubletaper PD's_8-30-04.jpg

MM 216a5a-a-Mk4_.125A-PDa,b,c,f, Mk2,3 & 4 models_02-18-13.JPG

MM 219b2a-sm_2 motors & igniters installed_09-06-05.jpg

MM 222b_MM Paintball Lofter_07-06-04.jpg
 
Last edited:
While your looking for Lighter papers you might want to try Tracing Vellum. Staples, Micheals, and other art supply stores carry lots of different Vellums some in colors. I also use a lot of very thin onion skin tracing paper for small parts then Medium CA them into a phenolic hardness.
The tracking vellums also come in several colors. below are a few pics of competition 1/8A Parachute and Streamer duration models made entirely of these films.

I have a ton of Tracing Vellum paper!
I use it to cover my workbench because I could not think of a use for it. It feels alien to me, and almost like plastic.
It was given to me by my Mom, who got it from a friend who's husband uses it as an Architect.
I never thought to build rockets out of it.
I still have like 30, 40 something by 30 something sheets of it, so I'll try that! I could probably make a couple thousand rockets with that much vellum!!!
 
Let's do this!
I've been working on an airfoiled fin mini-BBZ, so I already have a Cardstock Model to use as fodder.

Looks like it should work if the ink dries properly!
I'll clear coat it with acrylic before going any further, but it is set aside to dry for now.
I probably should have gently scuffed it with 320 grit, but it's too late now, and I could do this again and again and not run out of paper, so it's no big deal.
If I want more my Mom has a stack of it still, but maybe I won't be using it as a disposable workbench covering anymore.

Vellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 004.jpgVellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 001.jpgVellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 002.jpgVellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 003.jpgVellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 007.jpgVellum Paper For rockets 2002-12-31 008.jpg
 
Sounds Like you have a great source for your vellum. The stuff makes some outstanding shrouds.

I used it on the very large and long boattail on my 1:11.346 Scale SS-N-2 Styx anti-ship missile model. Most of the Span is unsupported to keep the weigh down. the vellum gave it enough strength to hold it's shape and put up with Scale Judge handling:)

For super light weigh and very small shrouds, cones, transitions & single wrap body tubes. Onion Skin Tracing paper is also very nice for small BT-5 and under models. This stuff is usually very transparent and a little bit brittle before applying the CA.

147a1-sm_SS-N-2  Styx_11.346_01-12-94.jpg

147b_SS-N-2  Styx_static&flight Pg_01-12-94.jpg
 
Yeap That's a good way to make display Nozzles and other SteamPunk tubes, Gauges and other tiny parts. I have a static display nozzle for my minimum diameter T2+ Interceptor that was made exactly that same way. Most of the models below have very tiny paper transitions on T2+ or T2 tubes (Orbital Transport Glider). The Point is all 67lb Cardstock CA soaked. as are the Transitions and boattail cones on the Micro Laser-X. Assateague Lighthouse is all 67lb cardstock construction with a little bit of clear plastic tube for the LED lite night light. for the most part I use medium CA to soak my paper and rolled cardstock parts. It's a little easier to handle on a folded paper towel mop. Helps get the CA on evenly.

Are those difficult to see when you launch them? Nice work and attention to detail.
 
Back
Top