Rocketry accident

Not going to link to it, but the article on the NY Post's site is particularly egregious.

-- Roger

While returning home from Garland this afternoon, I heard an AP News Radio sound bite again attributing this tragedy to a "model rocket explosion". Apparently, it's easier to regurgitate than to investigate. Once again rocket enthusiasts are on the defense against ignorance. Ignorance always wins.

jadebox said:

Not going to link to it, but the article on the NY Post's site is particularly egregious.

-- Roger

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WOW!! that is really bad, what a bunch of bull.

My wife and I were watching the news and just before commercial break: "Model Rocket explodes killing one and injuring another...stay tuned when we come back"

My wife says: "I don't want you going by yourself at Lucerne anymore to fly your rockets...they're potentially dangerous."

Misleading news that could cause model rockets to be more regulated, painted orange and eventually banned :-/

Thank God that I grew up in a time of Boy Scouts and good friends. In 1972 a friend launched a rocket. He had seen an ad in the back of Boy's Life (Centuri?). I found a hobby store and discovered Estes and the NAR... and learned about rocketry safety.

I'm one of those adults who look back and wonder how I am still alive after some of the foolish things my friends and I did as kids, teens and even in college years. (Sorry mom!) Point being, I could invision doing something inherently dangerous like this (oddly, a few old friends come to mind)... but I was lucky enough to have been educated by the Boy Scouts, Estes, Centuri and the NAR.

FWIW, The NY Crimes (via Associated Press) is reporting that the kids were trying to make a 'skateboard rocket'.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/04/05/us/ap-us-model-rocket-explosion.html

I feel like this thread has gone on to Captain Technicality territory. The distance between "the kids were making a rocket motor for a skateboard" and "the kids were probably making a pulse jet motor for a skateboard" are pretty slim. I'm not 100% sure I could coherently describe the difference between rockets and pulse jets so that an average non-engineer (or rocket hobbyist) could understand it. I think it's unreasonable to expect a reporter to do likewise, especially when they're given bad information in the first place. They're not evil, they just have a limited amount of time for each story. Not everyone gets to spend a year or two on a big story like Woodward.

The reporting in my hometown paper today was that it wasn't store bought and it was never intended to go up. I don't know what else you can ask for.

jadebox said:

Not going to link to it, but the article on the NY Post's site is particularly egregious.

-- Roger

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https://nypost.com/2016/04/05/model-rocket-kills-star-student/ is the NY Post article.

The article is sensationalized by using a stock photograph of a model rocket, and by the additional connection this event to the Boy Scout launch death in CA last November. While sensationalized, the reporting is factual because it is based on a previous newspaper report referenced below.

https://www.toacorn.com/news/2016-0...aks_HS_senior_killed_in_accidental_explo.html

The issue again is the statement of the AHJ where a premature conclusion was made that it was a hobby rocket.

As this incident occurred on public property and was unauthorized by the AHJ, there will be local and state investigations. CSFM will be involved in the investigation https://osfm.fire.ca.gov/ and they wrote the CA code on hobby rocketry, so it will become abundantly clear this was not a hobby rocket incident.

Bob

This ABC news article described the device as being about one foot long and 3/4 inch in diameter. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dead-hurt-model-rocket-explodes-school-38156313

Or, maybe it was something like these: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=propane+rockets

Time will tell. Bottom line is one young man is dead and the other permanently scarred. Terrible.

At this point the truth doesn't matter. No one reads the article corrections on page 19, three days after the initial story (and headline) broke.

Since when did the truth ever matter?

bobkrech said:

https://nypost.com/2016/04/05/model-rocket-kills-star-student/ is the NY Post article.

The article is sensationalized by using a stock photograph of a model rocket, and by the additional connection this event to the Boy Scout launch death in CA last November.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D9FauQOXN90

Ravenex said:

He received 2nd place for chemistry in the senior science fair.

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And this is why he didnt get 1st place

The Darwin prize is still up for grabs.

A couple of years ago, I had a short online exchange with a couple of teenagers that were playing around with stump remover and sugar, stuffing it into PVC pipe, and igniting it with cannon fuse. Their stated goal was to make a "rocket motor" to bolt to a skateboard. After watching their "test motor" explode, I suggested they leave the energetic materials to those that are qualified. Naturally, all I got back was a snarky remark.

Makes me wonder...

Just like my last year's SLI team. Told 'em, straight out, LEAVE THE ENERGETIC MATERIALS ALONE. YOU HAVE NO USE FOR HOME-DIPPED E-MATCHES. But kids don't listen. Sadly, he talked his father into buying him an e-match kit. When he went to stir the pyrogen with a metal screwdriver, FLASH! A ride to the ER, eye surgery, eye patch for months, and no SLI for anyone.

"Smart" kids... Just smart enough to be dangerous.

I've always said "I know just enough about XXX to be dangerous". In this case these boys really knew just enough to be dangerous. It's sad, but we are surrounded by people like these kids every day. Now that you can find "instructional" websites and videos all over the internet it's amazing that more people don't kill themselves every year. This is similar to the idiot that blew his leg off shooting at Tannerite last week.

I am just glad there was no Internet when I was a kid, I wouldn't have made it through otherwise.

That's the truth. As is was my friend and I cut open rolls and rolls of caps to make a giant golf ball sized cap. We took it to one of those abandoned concrete block shacks that are scattered over the So Cal high desert. We tried lighting it but couldn't get it lit. So we decided to throw a pipe with an end cap on it until we finally hit it. Apparently concrete blocks reflect sound. Who knew? I thought I had blown out my eardrums. My ears rang for a few days after that one. Later on we made another and decided it would be best if we lit it off at the railroad tracks where the sound wouldn't reflect back at us. We had trouble getting that one lit too (binder paper doesn't make a decent fuse) so we made a small tear in the paper so that the BP was exposed. BOOM! It's a miracle neither one of us were hurt. After that we decided to find something else to to.

g zilla said:

One was an adult the other was 17. I hope I dont have to baby a 17-18 year old.

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I have two 18 year old children. Very smart. But they don't always think things through, which means they sometimes make poor choices. Part of the problem is that at this age, they think that a) they are immortal and b) they think that bad things happen to other people and will never happen to them.

My wife and I have stopped more than one trainwreck with this group of very intelligent young people, simply by posing a series of "what if" questions.

I can easily see how this could happen with two, highly intelligent, and *unsupervised* high school kids.

ChrisAttebery said:

As is was my friend and I cut open rolls and rolls of caps to make a giant golf ball sized cap. We took it to one of those abandoned concrete block shacks that are scattered over the So Cal high desert. We tried lighting it but couldn't get it lit. So we decided to throw a pipe with an end cap on it until we finally hit it. Apparently concrete blocks reflect sound. Who knew? I thought I had blown out my eardrums. My ears rang for a few days after that one.

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You too? My friend and I did the same thing and had the same result. :bang:

We did the caps too. Fewer and not contained. Just got a smoke ball.

I'm just glad my buddies and I, 7 of us made it through from about 1967-1974 with no more than my uncle losing a half a thumb and a finger and a half. I had a few minor burns and ringing ears at times. Back then you could go to the local "drug" store and have no problems obtaining your favorite powdered metals and oxidizers. We played with gases, powders and liquids. We even made some NI3 in small quantities, nasty stuff! Got a hold of some discarded railroad detonators at the local coal yard. That was also a good source of empty ether spray cans. Several evenings a week, every week, weather permitting, and we didn't go fishing, the area we lived in got a bit louder. For the big sugar rockets and bigger other stuff we would go out to my Grandpa's farm a few miles out of town.

What I really don't understand is all of our parents had some idea of what we were doing, lots even in our back yards, and didn't seem to have a problem with it. The neighbors never called the cops. It wasn't till my uncle had his accident in the bedroom of his home that ended our spree of total disregard of life and limb. I just thought that the reason our dads did not really care about our science projects is that they did the same when they were our age, they never told us about it though, just like I never told my sons too much about what we did.

Just glad video games came out when they did, I think, never had to worry about my sons playing with the stuff I did.

I remember getting my hands on some interesting chemical supplies for experimenting with energetic materials. One of my older brothers was so scared that he told my mother about it and I had to get rid of everything. Sigh. I'm 55 and it still irritates me. However, he may have saved me from some nasty lessons. I would be remiss in relating what my friend and I did do and what we might have done. All of it was done with some basic rules. 1) Try to be as safe as possible. * not always fully informed for that one. 2) Never damage anyone's property. We never did anything that would harm critters or objects that belonged to others. (Our own model cars and other such things however, they suffered)

I think the loss of a brilliant young mind is very sad.
It expresses that even brilliance of an adult needs supervision.
Something went horribly wrong.
No matter if was model rocket related or some other venture, proper supervision may have saved his life.
The safety guidelines we have and follow work, the safety history proves that.
Experimentation needs to be left to the experts, or under the supervision of the experts.
For any kind of experiment, especially involving propane, should have been done at a proper facility.
I hope all young people that intend on experimenting with such deadly methods learns from this incident.
By watching stupid show off you tube video's, there are a few adults that could also learn what can go wrong from this.

I was reading an instructable the other day on how to build a welder from a microwave. Have no need for that, but the idea caught my eye. There was a heartfelt comment from a mother begging the author to take the article down; apparently her 18 y/o son was found electrocuted next to a disassembled microwave, and the police found that instructable on his laptop, so they think he may have been trying to build the welder. The internet is a marvelous place, but care and supervision must always be applied.

In this report posted to YouTube on 04/05/16 and at approximately 22-30 seconds in, the reporter makes it clear that the device that exploded was clearly not a "hobby rocket" according to the Ventura County Sheriff's Department. What was that about the news media only reporting the "facts" given them by "public officials"? Apparently, most other media outlets chose to go with the more sensational version of the event.

[video=youtube;FoXo6Dc-cYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoXo6Dc-cYs[/video]

tmacklin said:

In this report posted to YouTube on 04/05/16 and at approximately 22-30 seconds in, the reporter makes it clear that the device that exploded was clearly not a "hobby rocket" according to the Ventura County Sheriff's Department. What was that about the news media only reporting the "facts" given them by "public officials"? Apparently, most other media outlets chose to go with the more sensational version of the event.

[video=youtube;FoXo6Dc-cYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoXo6Dc-cYs[/video]

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Thanks for sharing Mr. Macklin. It shows that not all media is about ratings and getting the attention of the those whom chose to make it their life to point out what is wrong with the worlds hobbies.
It is still sad that a brilliant young man lost his life, and further that they both young men were un-supervised on school property with such a deadly device for testing.
If it were truely a school science project, where was the supervision? I suspect it was a, "I'll try that", read it online type thing. Which we all know how reliable things like that are reliable online!
Cudoo's to this reporter for being factual in reporting the incident.