Rocketry accident

Anyone know anything about this?

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Two-Injured-After-Model-Rocket-Explosion-374570821.html

This popped up on the NAR FB page. The "model rocket" was actually a propane tank.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow...cket-thousand-oaks-school-20160404-story.html

Public Info Officer of Ventura County FD tweeted "Small propane cylinder. Victims making rockets"

The problem is that all of the news sites are describing it as a "model rocket".

Sad news.

It may have been intended as a kind of rocket, but if it was a cylinder like they said on the news, then the boys made a bomb, and not a rocket.

Media running with the clickbait/"attention-grabbing" headline instead of bothering to fact-check? Unpossible!

YodaMcFly said:

Media running with the clickbait/"attention-grabbing" headline instead of bothering to fact-check? Unpossible!

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Typical.
Awhile back a kid around here somewhere seriously burned himself while setting RC Car Nitro-methane fuel on fire, and the News all reported it as "Rocket Fuel" for model rockets.

TopRamen said:

Typical.
Awhile back a kid around here somewhere seriously burned himself while setting RC Car Nitro-methane fuel on fire, and the News all reported it as "Rocket Fuel" for model rockets.

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Not surprising. At one time, I was a J-school student. For all of our differences and disagreements, I can't think of one of my instructors (all old-school "newspapermen" (and women)) that would have been happy with the current state of affairs of "journalism".

Journalism in America is dead. Reporters are just too lazy to leave their desks and beat the bushes! They just stay in their nice cozy office and google! and they can't even do that right! All the news media have an agenda and part of it is $$$$$, NOT honesty or integrity!

Journalism in America is clearly agenda driven. This article is a bunch of garbage. A propane tank has no purpose in amateur rocketry.

Even if it was unintended, this was a bomb waiting to happen.

"He took one look to the left, then THIS happens."

"When she sings, the audience is stunned. I was crying by the third note."

"Farmer picks up a wad of chewing gum. What happens next will leave you speechless."

There, I think I'm ready to be a modern journalist. Why anyone would want to get into a profession that has lost all respect is beyond me.

Because they don't have any self-respect. Just looking for a payday.

Flyfalcons said:

"He took one look to the left, then THIS happens."

"When she sings, the audience is stunned. I was crying by the third note."

"Farmer picks up a wad of chewing gum. What happens next will leave you speechless."

There, I think I'm ready to be a modern journalist. Why anyone would want to get into a profession that has lost all respect is beyond me.

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" I honestly had a chill up my leg!" PURE Journalism!

Our local all-news radio station had an interview with the fire captain that responded to the incident, and HE said that they were trying to make a "model rocket". You can't fault the journalists for reporting exactly what they are told by someone in authority... that's what journalists are SUPPOSED to do.

cerving said:

Our local all-news radio station had an interview with the fire captain that responded to the incident, and HE said that they were trying to make a "model rocket". You can't fault the journalists for reporting exactly what they are told by someone in authority... that's what journalists are SUPPOSED to do.

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Then, the Fire Captain is either corrupt or incompetent! And since when do journalists believe what the authorities say! Again the media is incompetent and corrupt!!!!

Journalists are just professional LIARS.

cerving said:

Our local all-news radio station had an interview with the fire captain that responded to the incident, and HE said that they were trying to make a "model rocket". You can't fault the journalists for reporting exactly what they are told by someone in authority... that's what journalists are SUPPOSED to do.

Click to expand...

When the story about the burned kid with the RC Car fuel was misreported, I called the Local News Station to explain it to them, but they said that that is what the State Police told them, so they had to go with it til' the State Police told them otherwise. I got the contact info for the Trooper that gave them the crap info, and sent E-mails which were apparently to a bogus address, as I got the failed E-mail message.

If something goes wrong (fire/explosion) when screwing around with something capable of such an incident just call it a model rocket and it makes it legit. What I want to know is if there was any type of supervision at the time or were the students alone.

TopRamen said:

Typical.
Awhile back a kid around here somewhere seriously burned himself while setting RC Car Nitro-methane fuel on fire, and the News all reported it as "Rocket Fuel" for model rockets.

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I remember this. Hopefully it was corrected at some point!

I'd say maybe ignorant... but a fire captain should at least have heard of NFPA 1125/1127.

A reporter's job is to report, not investigate. Investigative journalism has no place in the news... it's for 60 Minutes and 20/20, and tabloids if done poorly.

TALON said:

Then, the Fire Captain is either corrupt or incompetent! And since when do journalists believe what the authorities say! Again the media is incompetent and corrupt!!!!

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cerving said:

Our local all-news radio station had an interview with the fire captain that responded to the incident, and HE said that they were trying to make a "model rocket". You can't fault the journalists for reporting exactly what they are told by someone in authority... that's what journalists are SUPPOSED to do.

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I'm sure that any self respecting fire captain would know that model rocketry doesn't call for propane cylinders. God I hope so... My SISTER is one.

I will dissent. Unless clearly stated as an editorial, journalists are supposed to report facts based on information that they glean. I did not read any editorializing in this article. If anything, they simply didn't question enough the statement from an official who should have all of the facts. It appears to me that fault lies with the "expert" for speaking to the press before he had all of the facts.

Generalized hatred of groups is becoming rampant. I just cannot understand it.

Cheers,
Michael

No hatred for journalists. Just no respect. I have seen enoughly wildly inaccurate reporting on aviation topics to realize that it extends to all topics. There's a reason why it's not just me that thinks journalism is long dead.

K'Tesh said:

I'm sure that any self respecting fire captain would know that model rocketry doesn't call for propane cylinders. God I hope so... My SISTER is one.

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And any self respecting reporter would think " Hey, I launched/had friends that launched MODEL ROCKETS as a child, this sounds fishy". But NOOOOO! lets stay in our nice warm/cool cubical and run with it. What would Woodward & Bernstein think?

[video=youtube;PDBOwPORHGU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU[/video]

tmacklin said:

[video=youtube;PDBOwPORHGU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBOwPORHGU[/video]

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OUTSTANDING Ted!!! Couldn't have put it better myself. And this is from 1982!

Quite a few years ago, a paper article was commenting on a local drug bust. XX lbs for an estimated 'street value' of YYY dollars. When doing the math, it turned out to be about $100 above "street value" per volume.. When the reporter was called, she just shrugged it off.. "It's what the cops said"...

Amazing how a simple math check on their part could've corrected a cops statement, but no..

The kids may have in fact been trying to build a "model rocket", they may have thought propane would make a good rocket fuel. This is not necessarily inaccurate. The fact that it is not the correct way to build a model rocket and isn't representative of the hobby does not mean it's wasn't what they were trying to do. You can not be sure either the journalist or fire marshal were reporting inaccurate information. The fact that they didn't explain that the kids didn't know what they were doing and that it's not what real model rocketry is is not relevant, just annoying.

K'Tesh said:

I'm sure that any self respecting fire captain would know that model rocketry doesn't call for propane cylinders. God I hope so... My SISTER is one.

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Maybe they were making a model rocket. Albeit a liquid fuel rocket. Fire captain probably never seen a model rocket or even knows what NFPA 1125/1127. My friend in the 60s used match heads stuffed into a straw to make tiny motors

It's time to tone it down guys. You weren't there and neither was I.

Reporters are exactly that, reporters. They weren't there, and they are simply reporting what they have been told by the AHJ controlling the scene and "eyewitnesses" of the event. The first line in any news story should contain the 5Ws: Who; What; Where; When; and Why. It is a report, Nothing more and nothing less. The rest of the story should be the accounts obtained by AHJ and primary sources, i.e. folks witnessing the incident.

You should understand that when an accident is reported, most of the primary source information is not correct. That's why accident investigations are conducted, and that takes time but it is how we learn what happened. The German Wings airliner crash in France is a perfect example of a story constantly changing as more facts are found by the investigators.

For example look at this report of the accident. https://abc7.com/news/1-dead-1-injured-after-explosion-at-thousand-oaks-elementary-school/1276558/ It is a 100% factual report by the reporter even though there are preliminary conclusions from interviewed individual that may not be correct.

Headline: "1 dead, 1 injured after explosion at Thousand Oaks elementary school" - totally factual.

First sentence: "One person was killed and another injured after an explosion in Thousand Oaks on Monday, according to Ventura County fire officials." - Totally factual.

"Authorities said a hobby rocket exploded at about 7:35 p.m. on the basketball courts at Madrona Elementary School near Lynn Road and Camino Manzanas." - factual reporting, but premature conclusion presented by the AHJ possibly due to "eyewitness" statement.

"The Ventura County Sheriff's Department said an 18-year-old man was taken to the hospital in critical condition and later succumbed to his injuries." - factual reporting

"A 17-year-old male was taken to the hospital with minor injuries, deputies said." - factual reporting

"The victims were making rockets when the explosion occurred, according to fire officials. A nurse at the scene was able to start treatment immediately while EMS crews headed to the school." - factual reporting, but premature conclusion presented by the AHJ possibly due to "eyewitness" statement.

"A meeting was being held at the school for the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts at the time of the explosion." - factual reporting

""Nobody could really discern what it really was because it was a huge explosion. It was just all at once. Just a 'boom!' Then that was it," Tammy Coburn, who was in the meeting, explained." - factual reporting

"A Girl Scout leader who was a former military member recognized the sound and went to investigate what happened." - factual reporting

"He quietly stepped out of the meeting, closed the door and went out," Coburn said. "He's the one that came upon the boys and then got the emergency help from a Girl Scout nurse." - factual reporting

"ABC7 learned the victims were seniors at Thousand Oaks High School and honor students." - factual reporting

""They're AP and honor students. Amazing, brilliant kids. That's why it's like, 'How could this have happened to them?' Because they're brilliant. They would've thought everything out. They would have put this all together the right way. So this was just a horrible, tragic accident," Coburn said." - factual reporting, but the person interviewed makes statements that portray an emotional response which ignore what happened.

TRF editorial comment: Doesn't the above response echo what the Admins get from some TRF members when we curtail discussions of amateur motor making by inexperienced teens on the public forums ????? Now you know why we do this........

"The identities of the injured were not immediately released. Ventura County sheriff's officials were investigating the incident." - factual reporting

"Because of the investigation, Madrona Elementary School was set to be closed on Tuesday." - factual reporting

So read news reports carefully before you draw any conclusions and complain about poor reporting.

Bob

OUR definition of a model rocket and the general public's definition (including a Fire Captain) is much different. If it has fins and designed to fly upwards propelled by thrust coming out the rear, the general public calls it a rocket. If it is not a large commercial/government rocket, they call it a model rocket. By the general public's definition, this is a home made model rocket. There are about 10,000 people in the US that are members of NAR or Tripoli. There are about 320,000,000 people in the US. That means only 1 in 32,000 Americans are members of a rocket organization. And most people who are not members are ignorant of the specifics of model rocketry.

I think that's the beef, "trying to make a rocket" vs "it was a model rocket". They mean two very different things, e.g. "trying to pour liquid N2O into the gas tank" vs "it was a race car".