Binder Design Excel Dual Deploy Build

Binder Design said:

Thank you for sharing your opinion, we take all feedback seriously. Stock Binder Design tubing has flown on L motors stock or M motors double walled with couplers. For a L1 rocketeer like yourself, they are great kits that deliver about twice the performance on L1 and L2 motors compared to heavy fiberglass kits. Quite a few rocketeers leave the spirals exposed, in fact, we even have instructions on how to deepen the spirals on our Galaxy kit for a great retro look.

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Just at primer fill stage on a Binder Terrordactyl. Decided to build light with no fiberglass. Even with the beautiful, big fins, and the optional av-bay the whole thing is really light. Much lighter than a fiberglass Madcow Screech (that I'm also priming) that is the same length but ~half the diameter.

I did the final internal fin fillets today and I also added a bit of extra plywood on this side as backing for the lower rail button. Here's a picture...

As far as tube material goes, I'm still new to high-power rocketry so I don't really have the experience to weigh in on the battle. For the short term I'm going to stick with the quality cardboard tubes like the ones in this kit and see how far it takes me. Also, I'm filling the tube spirals because I'm looking for a nice smooth rocket, but, I'm sure it would fly fine and look ok without them being filled.

My next big choice will probably be whether I should go with AeroTech reloads, CTI reloads or just stick with single use motors for now. I've heard from one of the local vendors that he sees more local folks using CTI, but, he carries reloads in both brands so the options are mostly open.

I may be jumping out of sequence a bit, but, tonight I tested my altimeter to make sure it would fire the ejection lighters I'm planning to use. So far I'm planning to use a Missle Works RRC2+ with a standard 9V battery. I tested it using a cheap plastic food storage container to hold the altimeter and a FoodSaver vacuum sealer to lower the pressure and simulate the altitude. I cut small holes in the container lid to allow the wires out to the e-match and then another small hole for the vacuum connector. I covered the wire holes with electrical tape to help seal them and it must have been a good enough seal because it worked. Shortly after I turned off the vacuum the altimeter fired the e-match and then beeped out about 750 feet. I'd tested once before with just the altimeter (no e-match) in an authentic FoodSaver container without holes in the lid and it reached a few thousand feet. The cheap container didn't get as high, but it worked well enough and it cost much less to sacrifice.

So far I'm thinking that for the first few flights I'll use the RRC2+ at apogee for the main deployment but I will leave the motor charge in as a backup. Once I've verified that it works then I'll try dual deployment with larger motors.

Last night I glued the fin can into the lower body tube. Since I have three centering rings, I put in the epoxy for the top ring first, then slid the fin can partially in prior to putting in the epoxy for the middle and lower centering rings. The fit was snug but I still used some rubber bands around the bottom to make sure the bottom of the body tube stayed tight against the bottom centering ring. Here's a picture.... Hopefully sometime in the next few nights I'll tackle the external fin fillets, the rail buttons and the motor retainer.

Looking Good!

I agree, the fin set up looks real nice. Binder Design knew I was going to ask for a longer motor mount and third ring so they just threw it in the kit before I asked! Great service. Bay Area Rocketry sent me my Aerotech 38mm 720 casing, the also refunded me on the shipping charges applied at check out! Excellent service, so now I just have to get started myself! I notice the nose cone is a little loose in the upper section tube. Did yours fit snug?

Ray
TRA# 04700

Ray51 said:

I notice the nose cone is a little loose in the upper section tube. Did yours fit snug?

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The nose cone on mine is just a little loose so I'll probably need a few wraps of tape to make it snug.

Tonight I started on the external fin fillets. I taped off the area for two fins with blue tape and then applied and smoothed out the epoxy with a tongue depressor. The Aeropoxy is fairly thick, so, although it will level itself out some it doesn't run much at room temperature. I used a gloved finger to smooth out the ends. Once the epoxy sets a bit I'm going to remove the tape and touch up things as needed. Here's a picture...

Good work there....did you select a paint brand and color scheme?

Looks great!

Thanks for the compliments, the technique I'm using looks to be working....here's a picture of the next set of fillets still drying but with the tape removed....

As far as colors and paints go, I'm still deciding but so far I'm leaning toward using Rustoleaum 2X primer and paint with dark blue for the top half and white for the booster and either silver or gray for the electronic bay band.

kswing said:

Thanks for the compliments, the technique I'm using looks to be working....here's a picture of the next set of fillets still drying but with the tape removed....
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As far as colors and paints go, I'm still deciding but so far I'm leaning toward using Rustoleaum 2X primer and paint with dark blue for the top half and white for the booster and either silver or gray for the electronic bay band.

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So, something like this:

Nice design K'Tesh...that's pretty close to what I'm thinking. I use OpenRocket to help predict performance, but, I don't usually go as far as putting in color schemes. Once the rocket is complete I'll take the rocket file I've downloaded and adjust the weights on it so that it matches reality.

I've made some progress lately....Friday night I installed the motor retention system and tonight I put in the rail buttons. Here's a picture...


I've also finished all of the external fin fillets and glued together the electronics bay end caps. There a launch coming up in a few weeks and I think I've got it almost ready for a flight using motor deployment, but, I'm not sure the paint will be done. I'm debating between trying to get the electronics complete so that I can use the altimeter for deployment or trying to get the paint done so it looks better.

I've made some progress this weekend. I've started painting and I've also started work on the electronics. Here's a picture of the paint so far:

Note that the booster and middle are still in primer and the booster is actually more evenly coated than the picture suggests. The booster is going to be gloss white and the electronics bay section will be roughly the same shade of gray as the picture but glossier.

On the electronics front, I have the altimeter and battery mounted to the sled, but, I haven't done anything for the ejection charges yet. Here are pictures of my altimeter sled so far...


Note that the red JST connector on the right in the battery photo will connect to the kit-supplied screw switch. Also, I'm planning to replace the electrical tape wraps on the wire-to-wire connections with shrink-wrap once I get some.

Once I get to electronic deployment, I'm planning to use 1/2" PVC end caps to hold the ejection charges and use audio speaker binding posts as thru-bulkhead connections for the igniters so that I can install new charges and igniters without having to open up the electronics bay. I'll also have JST connectors between the end caps and the altimeter so that if needed I can disassemble the electronics bay without having to unscrew any connections.

Well, the launch last weekend was rained out, but, that isn't totally a bad thing because it gave me time to work more on the paint and apply the stickers. Hopefully I'll get to fly it at the next launch in a few weeks. I still have to put in the rivets for the nose cone and the shear pins for the top half, but, here's what it looks like with the paint and stickers....

kswing said:

Well, the launch last weekend was rained out, but, that isn't totally a bad thing because it gave me time to work more on the paint and apply the stickers. Hopefully I'll get to fly it at the next launch in a few weeks. I still have to put in the rivets for the nose cone and the shear pins for the top half, but, here's what it looks like with the paint and stickers....

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Beautiful! What shade of blue did you use?

K'Tesh said:

Beautiful! What shade of blue did you use?

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Thanks! The blue on the fins are the stickers that came with the kit. The top portion is Rustoleum 2X Gloss Deep Blue.

Love the color scheme! The deep blue looks great

Today I tested out the drogue chute ejection charge and it worked just fine. I used 1.4 grams of 4F powder and put the rocket in a hammock in my back yard and it easily pushed the top half of the rocket far enough that it would have reached the end of the recovery harness if it hadn't tangled with the wires I used for the test. The ejection charge calculator suggested approximately 1.2 grams so I figured 1.4 provided a little safety margin. I used a 1/2" PVC end cap packed with the black powder and then filled the remaining space with insulation wading and covered it with electrical tape. I used an e-match to ignite it. Here's a picture of the electronics bay end cap.

I'm not planning on using shear pins for the booster, but, I probably will for the nose cone/payload bay, so, I may have to run another test for the top half before I try a dual deployment. Also, based on many of the articles I've read on this forum I've drilled a 1/8" equalization hole in both the booster and the payload bay to help prevent an early deployment due to the pressure difference at altitude.

Hey there! Just purchased this rocket in the 3" version and am really excited to build it. Awesome thread!

Quick question...is yours the 4" or 3" version?

Delta2-Fan said:

Hey there! Just purchased this rocket in the 3" version and am really excited to build it. Awesome thread!

Quick question...is yours the 4" or 3" version?

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Thanks for following my thread.....mine is the 4" version and so far it has been a good build. The parts are well machined and fit well aside from the nose cone being a little loose. Also, the instructions are very thorough and complete. I'm hoping I'll get to launch it for my L1 in about 10 days. I'm planning to use a single-use Aerotech I140W.

What size MMT did you get?

kswing said:

Thanks for following my thread.....mine is the 4" version and so far it has been a good build. The parts are well machined and fit well aside from the nose cone being a little loose. Also, the instructions are very thorough and complete. I'm hoping I'll get to launch it for my L1 in about 10 days. I'm planning to use a single-use Aerotech I140W.

What size MMT did you get?

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I got the 38mm because I already use that size in another 4" HPR that I have.
GOOOOD LUCK on your Level 1!!! I hope everything goes perfect for you!! It looks like if anything goes wrong it all, it WILL NOT be with your build!! You've done a FANTASTIC job!

My Level 1 certification flight was a success! I launched it today at the NOVAAR launch (in Virginia) with an I140 motor using dual deployment and everything worked as planned. The drogue popped at apogee and the main came out at 500 feet and it drifted just enough to miss the trees so it landed in an open field without any damage. Many thanks much to the NOVAAR folks (Kurt et al.) who oversaw my flight and provided helpful advice. Here's a pre-launch picture:

kswing said:

My Level 1 certification flight was a success! I launched it today at the NOVAAR launch (in Virginia) with an I140 motor using dual deployment and everything worked as planned. The drogue popped at apogee and the main came out at 500 feet and it drifted just enough to miss the trees so it landed in an open field without any damage. Many thanks much to the NOVAAR folks (Kurt et al.) who oversaw my flight and provided helpful advice. Here's a pre-launch picture:

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Let me be the first to say Congrats!

Congrats!

Congrats! Thank you for flying Binder Design!!!!

Congrats!! The Excel is one of my favorite rockets - I've built two, both with the longer MMT and third centering ring. They eat J350's for breakfast.

Did you ask for blue or did it just ship that way? Looks great.

Nice job on your cert and a beautiful rocket!

neond7 said:

Congrats!! The Excel is one of my favorite rockets - I've built two, both with the longer MMT and third centering ring. They eat J350's for breakfast.

Did you ask for blue or did it just ship that way? Looks great.

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Thanks....I asked for the blue and I was lucky that one of the stock Rustoleum 2X colors was a close match. I enjoyed this kit and I hope to build another Binder kit (or maybe a 54mm booster for this one) sometime in the not-too-distant future. The Excel will probably be what I use for my Level 2 flight in a few months.

I think my next building project is going to be a mid-power rocket that I'm designing to replace the LOC Graduator (2.6") that I lost to an engine CATO.

Here's a photo from a launch this past weekend. It reached 3032' on an I500 and used dual deploy for a closer recovery. I also increased the size of the parachute to about 48" because the rocket weighs a bit more than I expected. The stock 36" chute worked fine for the previous flight, but, it did come down fairly quick and since I'm doing dual deploy the drift from a larger chute isn't as much of an issue. I made the 48" octagon chute myself using rip stop nylon (1.1 oz. low porosity from www.paragear.com) and heavy-duty Dacron kite string and so far it has held up fine.