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Thread: Kit Suggestion?

  1. #1
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    Question Kit Suggestion?

    Putting this here, because it might be "LPR", it might be "MPR", it could be "Techniques" ...

    I want/need to learn about the dreaded paper transitions; specifically, I'm looking for a kit that has a paper boat tail/tail cone; the specific requirement, though, that makes it complicated, is I want something where the fins are mounted to/through the tailcone (i.e. V2, [Improved] Orion, BB2 not counting the funky "wasp waist", some versions of the Aerobee I've seen, etc), rather than having the boat tail behind the fins (Bullpup, Hawk, etc.)

    So, does anyone have any suggestions? I would prefer 24mm or 18mm power, but even 29mm would work. Getting into the higher end of MPR, I'd be inclined to just go with plastic/fiberglass.

    As I'm writing this, I realize there are probably a few TLP kits that would do ... It looks like the Quest Tomahawk does this, but I'm not clear if it's OOP ... (Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm a moron. )

    Thanks


  2. #2
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    I'd try cloning the Estes Pro Series Patriot, or (if you can find the nosecone like I did on Ebay) their AQM-37 Jayhawk.

    Dreaming of making the rockets I dreamed of as a kid (and then some).


    NAR L1 Cert flight: Sheridan, Oregon, USA. Sept. 19, 2015. Flew Deep Space OFFl on an I357T-14A Blue Thunder

  3. #3
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    the problem w/ the patriot is that the fins don't attach to the boat tail. I would suggest the Wac Corporal...but one would have to scratch build it as none of the kits (that I have seen) has a boat tail.
    Rex
    edit
    Madcow does have a nice Jayhawk, it is a bit pricy though.
    Last edited by Rex R; 17th March 2016 at 05:42 PM.
    L2-competitor 3, AT J350W, 8/27/2016, Bong, 2557'
    my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gB...?feature=watch

  4. #4
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    I would suggest a multiple of TLP kits.. most have a tail cone. Most have the little 'Nose Cone 'hat'.. Not sure about transitions though..

    Have you looked thru the 'paper rocketry' section. You'll probably find one or two there that fit you needs (and budget!)

    Fliskit's 'L-13' Has a tail cone.. Or the MAkO.. Or even the Thunderbird. Has a bunch of paper cones & tail-pipes to make.. And, the Nantucket Sound is one BIG transition!
    -paul

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    I don't know the same things you don't know..

  5. #5
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    This is going to drive me nuts! RedRiverRocketry used to make a kit that would fit the bill, and I can't remember what it was called! I even have one (unflown) awaiting repair. It has transitions, cones, fins attached to transitions - all that you ask for and more.

    Aha! Redstar! http://www.rocketreviews.com/redstar...-rocketry.html

    Now, finding one will probably be a bit of a challenge...
    Bill

    NAR #97213, L2
    Just a member of UROC
    Former member of NARHAMS and NOVAAR

  6. #6
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    A couple of the Squirrel Works sci-fi kits feature paper transitions but don't meet your other criteria:

    Interstellar Probe

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    http://www.squirrel-works.com/catalog/probe/probe.html



    Liberator

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    http://www.squirrel-works.com/catalo...liberator.html



    ...and lots of fiddley bits.


    Fliskits Mako ?

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    http://www.fliskits.com/products/roc...etail/mako.htm


    A.C.M.E. Spitfire

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    http://www.fliskits.com/products/01prod_fs.htm


    The Launch Pad Gabriel III

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    http://www.erockets.biz/launch-pad-f...0-gabriel-iii/
    Last edited by samb; 17th March 2016 at 09:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    If you truly want to experience the Hades that is balsa fins surface glued to a paper boat tail then TLP is for you. I have built the Gabriel and just finished the HARM. You can also have a lot of fun with paper transitions on the Pershing 1a and the chunky Bull Pup 12B which also has a witches hat, but the fins are North of the big tail shroud. With good technique you can make them really strong but they will eventually break. An easy field repair and they are back in the air quickly, much to the sh-grin of TLP haters.

  8. #8
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    And who can forget the infamous Quest X-30! Just few it again last launch on a C6 3. The top men kind of groaned but I thought it had pretty good flight performance. Is Performance Hobbies still trying to sell them for $5? I think next time I will go with a D10.

    The Nantucket Sound with the small fin option is just nuts. Constant fin repair until they have all been CA reset once. Better to break and rebuild during construction. Same for the army men glued to the top if you are in to that sort of thing.

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    Last edited by Daddyisabar; 17th March 2016 at 09:46 PM.

  9. #9
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    I'll second the vote for TLP Kits, but you can start making transitions for free with Payloadbays transition tool.
    I must have printed 15-20 in the past week to use and try for different things.


    Even if you get a TLP or other kit, just make copies of all the paper cones/transitions before you do anything.
    That way you can screw a few up or try different techniques and always just print another.
    Last edited by TopRamen; 17th March 2016 at 10:15 PM.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  10. #10
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    Thanks, all, for the advice. I guess maybe I wasn't completely clear: the main reason I wanted a kit rather than bashing, cloning, etc, was that I'm very lacking in confidence in how to make sure that the tail cone "works", so, I was hoping for a kit that would give me semi-dummy-proof instructions.

    I've got Tim van Milligan's "Model Rocket Design and Construction" which has a section on it ... I've read *lots* about it, just scared to actually do it...

  11. #11
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    Fliskits' Spitfire. It's got fins attached to a tail cone, and it's just complicated enough to be seriously fun to build. I'm planning on doing a build thread when I finish my current rocket (Zooch Soyuz).
    *******************************************
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  12. #12
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    take a look at the apogee peak of flight #349; https://www.apogeerockets.com/educat...sletter349.pdf for simplified shroud instructions. for something to practice on, rocket reviews rocsim library I believe has the Estes Sprint, import this into Open Rocket. chose the export function. from there you have the option of exporting the transition as a pdf file from which you can print out how ever many practice shrouds you would like (regular printer paper works well for this).
    Rex
    L2-competitor 3, AT J350W, 8/27/2016, Bong, 2557'
    my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0gB...?feature=watch

  13. #13
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    Fliskits Cougar 660.



    Inexpensive ($11.95 MSRP), has tailcone with fins attached.
    Bill

    NAR #97213, L2
    Just a member of UROC
    Former member of NARHAMS and NOVAAR

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushtang View Post
    Fliskits' Spitfire. It's got fins attached to a tail cone, and it's just complicated enough to be seriously fun to build. I'm planning on doing a build thread when I finish my current rocket (Zooch Soyuz).
    Finally we got a Zoocher in the mix. Build any of the R 7 line and you paper rolling skills will be put to the test. Ask yourself, do you have the Right Stuff to roll those boosters, can you man up to ant scale?

  15. #15
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    A Dr Zooch Soyuz will give you all the wrap practice you could possibly stand. You also get the added bonus of gluing the fins directly to the paper wraps.
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  16. #16
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    Hmm. Maybe I should just turn it out of balsa...

    :-)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by YodaMcFly View Post
    Hmm. Maybe I should just turn it out of balsa...

    :-)
    Never! Balsa is way too heavy for the back end of a true LPR bird. Plastic is too heavy. Carbon fiber is. . . well that would be so cool I guess it would work. Paper is the ultimate model rocket making material. Build them light, build them strong!

  18. #18
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    Zooch Soyuz and Zooch Saturn 1b....both will have you rolling the booster tanks out of paper...both are a blast to build!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by YodaMcFly View Post
    Thanks, all, for the advice. I guess maybe I wasn't completely clear: the main reason I wanted a kit rather than bashing, cloning, etc, was that I'm very lacking in confidence in how to make sure that the tail cone "works", so, I was hoping for a kit that would give me semi-dummy-proof instructions.

    I've got Tim van Milligan's "Model Rocket Design and Construction" which has a section on it ... I've read *lots* about it, just scared to actually do it...

    That's exactly why you should print some for free!!!

    I like 110# Cardstock for them, as it is readily available at walmart for like $5 for 100 8.5"x11" sheets.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddyisabar View Post
    Never! Balsa is way too heavy for the back end of a true LPR bird. Plastic is too heavy. Carbon fiber is. . . well that would be so cool I guess it would work. Paper is the ultimate model rocket making material. Build them light, build them strong!
    This^^^^

    They are incredibly easy to make when you get the hang of it, and like me, you will be surprised at how rigid they can be made with thin CA or finishing epoxy, not to mention a layer of lightweight glass cloth, which even on a 2.6" diameter cone only adds a couple of grams.


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    Last edited by TopRamen; 19th March 2016 at 02:48 AM.
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

  21. #21
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    Gotta say the Zooch Shuttle and Zooch Lifting body are a real blast! Great little gliders to watch soar around and just a fun rocket to build!
    NAR# 100059 Tripoli# 17072 KM4TZU
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    Highest Flight: Level 2 "RunbleBee" 9490ft Max Vel. 1530ft/s Apr 9, 2017 LDRS36



  22. #22
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    I posted open rocket plans and build thread for a BT-50 BB2 in the scratch built section. That has a paper tail cone that the fins partially mount to. Pretty straightforward and you don't have to do the 23+ wraps that the Soyuz has you do.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
    I posted open rocket plans and build thread for a BT-50 BB2 in the scratch built section. That has a paper tail cone that the fins partially mount to. Pretty straightforward and you don't have to do the 23+ wraps that the Soyuz has you do.
    Searching now ... This sounds awesome.


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