Ok... Going Nutz here In China... NEED PVC Rocket Help!

Alright... I've been in China for 2.5(ish) months, and I haven't had a single rocket to build. I'm going a little bit nutz here.

I've found a thin wall 4"(ish) PVC pipe that I'm seriously thinking about making into a scratch built HPR rocket. Problem is, I've never made a PVC rocket before. Anybody got some build threads (actual builds) that I might be able to ponder over?

Thanks!
Jim

I can't imagine.. :/

I tried to do a search here on PVC, but not much luck. For the life of me, I can't remember who, but somebody recently built a PVC rocket. Of course, they got a little razzed for it (too heavy, glue doesn't stick, that whole shrapnel from CATO thang)

Maybe you would consider using that tube as a...mandrel? Slap on a couple layers of wax paper, and spiral wrap it with paper and glue? I've made a handful of tubes like that

Maybe you could use rice paper?!

So, say you do build a rocket, what the heck you gonna use for a motor?

Oh, yea, you still got that 20lb slab of firecrackers? Or, have you figured out how to make a PDCP?





Panda dung composite propellant?

McKailas Dad said:

I can't imagine.. :/

I tried to do a search here on PVC, but not much luck. For the life of me, I can't remember who, but somebody recently built a PVC rocket. Of course, they got a little razzed for it (too heavy, glue doesn't stick, that whole shrapnel from CATO thang)

Maybe you would consider using that tube as a...mandrel? Slap on a couple layers of wax paper, and spiral wrap it with paper and glue? I've made a handful of tubes like that

Maybe you could use rice paper?!

So, say you do build a rocket, what the heck you gonna use for a motor?

Oh, yea, you still got that 20lb slab of firecrackers? Or, have you figured out how to make a PDCP?





Panda dung composite propellant?

Click to expand...

You're thinking of this thread. My idea isn't for a minimum diameter MPR build, but a 4"(ish) HPR rocket built based on the techniques I've learned from Binder Design. Mike and I worked together on a design that in the end came out to be too much for him to be able to kit (and remain profitable). I'm planning on building it capable of flight, but I realize that it might not be something that I can fly (here). Oh, and I now own 3m of thin wall PVC pipe.

PDCP is a highly controlled substance here... I'm thinking that I'd need to use KDCP* to launch this. I'm this close to that island, I might as well go all the way.

*Kangaroo Dung Composite Propellant.

YES! That's the one! Darn that..what's it called? CRS?!

I remember BadAzz from back in the day, he made a good go of it for a while. Iirc his stuff was like half bolted together, but again, read my second sentence

Eh, third, I can't count either, but technically "YES" is not a sentence...

K'Tesh said:

I'm thinking that I'd need to use KDCP* to launch this. I'm this close to that island, I might as well go all the way.

*Kangaroo Dung Composite Propellant.

Click to expand...

Well if your interested QRS is having it's open day 13th March...

Usually however it's CDCP as the field is shared with a herd of the bovine kind.

https://www.ausrocketry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5410
https://qldrocketry.com/launch-info/

Here's the BadAzz Defender build thread: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?22864-BaddAzz-Rocketry-quot-Defender-MkII-quot

SpaceManMat said:

Well if your interested QRS is having it's open day 13th March...

Usually however it's CDCP as the field is shared with a herd of the bovine kind.

https://www.ausrocketry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5410
https://qldrocketry.com/launch-info/

Click to expand...

Yer Bull******g me right? :wink:

I was thinking of Thunda Down Under, but it looks like I'll have about two years to get this build done.

Ok, talked to Mike (Binder Design), and our mutual design is out of the picture. He's still not sure if he'll kit it someday, and I've been asked not to let the cat out of the bag.

A few things I've learned about the pipe I have. It's 4.375" OD, walls are 0.093" thick (Yes, I brought my micrometer w/me to China). I've got ~3 meters of the stuff (@ ¥10/m (1.53USD/m)), it's currently cut into a section that is right around 1m and one that is likely just under 2m. My intended design is to have the rocket be somewhere in the 2.19m-2.25m length when fully assembled. I'm thinking that a JL Chute Release may be what I'd go for when it comes to recovery, just have the rocket split with motor deploy (maybe deploying a drogue), but use the Chute Release rather than needing to deal with the hassles of charges (international type hassles, not the usual ones).

I've also discovered that as I was cutting the 1m section off, that it cracked off a lot easier than the schedule 40 stuff I'm familiar with back home in the US. I'm hoping that this won't become a problem for me, as I was planning on making the NC using the crown method that I've been seeing people use for making NCs. I've been able to scrape cut off the tab that resulted from the cracked pipe rather easily, and it is relatively easy to carve with the cutting surface of the knife.

Don't expect photos for a little while... It's 4am here (I can't sleep), and I'm not going to start taking photos now.

BTW. Thanks for the link Ken. Keep'em coming!

Oh, and checking airfare from here to BNE is coming in at ~9K RMB. I had to adjust the dates back to January 2017, but I figure that it's a good placeholder for now. Checking for a departure next week though came in at ~5.1K RMB (11K RMB for 1st Class).

K'Tesh said:

Yer Bull******g me right? :wink:

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Mate! Would I ever do that

Actually they are really inquisitive, had a calf pay us a visit during the middle of a launch. My kids followed it at a distance till it decided to chase them, then they got a little exited:y:

K'Tesh said:

I was thinking of Thunda Down Under, but it looks like I'll have about two years to get this build done.

Click to expand...

We usually do about 3 trips a year to Westmar which is were Thunda was held. It's over 5 hours from Brisbane, so takes a bit more organizing. Obviously not going to be big like Thunda, but talk is April will be the next trip (guessing it will be Easter long weekend).

SpaceManMat said:

Mate! Would I ever do that

Actually they are really inquisitive, had a calf pay us a visit during the middle of a launch. My kids followed it at a distance till it decided to chase them, then they got a little exited:y:

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You brought baby goats to a launch? :wink: This thread is going to the animals. Next up... Lions, Tigers, and Bears... OH MY!!! Actually we've already had bears (haven't we).

SpaceManMat said:

We usually do about 3 trips a year to Westmar which is were Thunda was held. It's over 5 hours from Brisbane, so takes a bit more organizing. Obviously not going to be big like Thunda, but talk is April will be the next trip (guessing it will be Easter long weekend).

Click to expand...

Really though, I'm a long way off from being able to afford to go to ANY launch, here in China, Australia, or back in the US.

K'Tesh said:

You brought baby goats to a launch? :wink: This thread is going to the animals. Next up... Lions, Tigers, and Bears... OH MY!!! Actually we've already had bears (haven't we).

Click to expand...

Yea, some yahoo mentioned Pandas.

C'mon Jim, be creative! Make a bamboo rocket! It's hollow and strong, yet somewhat flexible. Assorted sizes, get yourself a BT and MMT off the same plant!

I was going to say tree, but iirc bamboo is actually a grass.

I mean, geeze man, you're the OR master, I KNOW you could sim it!!!


Maybe some Saki propellant with a Pug poo binder?

No worries, I'll run out of Chinese jokes...eventually

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?131719-Pvc-Scratch-build-Almost-done-Need-opinions!

That was my scratch build using PVC that everyone or i should say the majority was up in arms about.
It turned out great tho!
I used pvc for the main body and nose cone
the blue and yellow one is the pvc i dunno how to delete the other attached photo, its unrelated

McKailas Dad said:

Yea, some yahoo mentioned Pandas.

C'mon Jim, be creative! Make a bamboo rocket! It's hollow and strong, yet somewhat flexible. Assorted sizes, get yourself a BT and MMT off the same plant!

I was going to say tree, but iirc bamboo is actually a grass.

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Great! Just what I need! Getting kicked out of China (or thrown into prison), because I chose to smoke some grass. :wink:

McKailas Dad said:

I mean, geeze man, you're the OR master, I KNOW you could sim it!!!

Click to expand...

I may be good with reproducing appearances in OR. However, when it comes to running sims, I'm not so good (OR doesn't like all my tricks).

McKailas Dad said:

Maybe some Saki propellant with a Pug poo binder?

No worries, I'll run out of Chinese jokes...eventually

Click to expand...

Looks like sooner rather than later. Saki was a Brit. Sake is Japanese.

RocketNerd said:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?131719-Pvc-Scratch-build-Almost-done-Need-opinions!

That was my scratch build using PVC that everyone or i should say the majority was up in arms about.
It turned out great tho!
I used pvc for the main body and nose cone
the blue and yellow one is the pvc i dunno how to delete the other attached photo, its unrelated

View attachment 283744View attachment 283745

Click to expand...

I'm glad it turned out well.

Like you, I'm planning on using PVC for the NC and body tube.

I'm hoping that people who may have built one that is larger than a minimum diameter rocket may check in with suggestions.

K'Tesh said:

I'm glad it turned out well.

Like you, I'm planning on using PVC for the NC and body tube.

I'm hoping that people who may have built one that is larger than a minimum diameter rocket may check in with suggestions.

Click to expand...

By watching the vids on how to make PVC bows, it looks like when it's heated is very malleable. That could be an advantage in making a nosecone.

Man, Jim, TRF needs to get together and send you some care packages.

Body tubes, motors, root beer...

It would probably take two months to get there, but, better late than never!

If we were to send the motor grains all separately, we could ditch the Hazmat fees....Right?!

https://youtu.be/z6VvQmoE0cg

I followed the above video to make my nose cone. Fairly easy and works great!

McKailas Dad said:

By watching the vids on how to make PVC bows, it looks like when it's heated is very malleable. That could be an advantage in making a nosecone.

Man, Jim, TRF needs to get together and send you some care packages.

Body tubes, motors, root beer...

Click to expand...

Kits, nosecones, balsa, plywood, epoxy, CA, sealer, paint... Thanks for remembering the root beer.

McKailas Dad said:

It would probably take two months to get there, but, better late than never!

If we were to send the motor grains all separately, we could ditch the Hazmat fees....Right?!

Click to expand...

I'd suggest staying away from motor grains though. I don't need to alarm the local authorities.

Ok... Talked to my school's Principal. I was told that the design I was OK'd by Mike to build (our mutual design changed radically between us as to be completely different kits), was TOO military (something I was afraid of). Ok, back to the drawing board.

I wanted to do a boat tail, and I need a NC shape that is easy to replicate (so no upscale of the PNC-60H). Solution: a V2's nosecone. However, there's no way I'll be building a V2 for the school for the same reason as I can't build the other design. So, I've been plugging along between bouts of fatigue (I'm sick). I've got a plan that works for her, and works for me...

Now, I just need to get the materials that I don't have (everything except for the body tube).

Some details: 4.375" OD, length: 69.349", weight (approx.): 10.7lbs, motor: 54mm. I'm still not sure if I'll be splitting the body mid length and going zipperless (motor deploy and/or altimeter) , or nose pop. Laundry will use the Jolly Logic Chute Release. The motor tube will not be made from PVC. Retention? Uncertain at this time. Nose weight? a can of Coca Cola (can't find Diet Coke here). Total investment (to date): ¥30 RMB/$4.58 USD.

Something odd, I can get a segment of the tube coupler (PVC) to align nicely inside on section of body tube, but not in the other (what would be the NC/Boat Tail), or the reverse, fit in the NC/BT, and not the body tube).

Oh, and it looks like someone doesn't like this thread... I've got a one star review. To that person... Pbbbbbbbbbttttt :tongue: :neener:

Further refinement on the .ork file... Adding in a baffle and going with a traditional nose pop ejection has upped the weight to 11.5lbs. I'm thinking now that the retainer may just be done by using a single screw with a washer (or three screws with washers) threaded into the aft CR.

I'd attach an updated image but following an update from MS, my computer's connection to the VPN has become unstable. I'll check back later.

Plugging along on the PVC build... I've cut the body tube out of the PVC pipe, and segments for the nosecone and boat tail.

Currently trying to cut the "crown" that will form the point of the boat tail. I figure doing it that way will give me practice on making the NC, and that it would be easier to make a complete tail cone, then crop off what isn't needed

Are you able to post pics? That's a cool looking rocket, it would be nice to see under construction.

By the way, how are the local government minders with rocket engines? How are you going to get this thing launched? My (probably wrong) impression is that they are "randomly heavy-handed", so keeping your head low is a good idea.

Cabernut said:

Are you able to post pics? That's a cool looking rocket, it would be nice to see under construction.

By the way, how are the local government minders with rocket engines? How are you going to get this thing launched? My (probably wrong) impression is that they are "randomly heavy-handed", so keeping your head low is a good idea.

Click to expand...

I was concerned about this as well. Admittedly I know nothing about how the Chinese government would react but after watching this young American guy on public display in North Korea who was simply trying to steal what amounts to a cloth banner, I think I would just lay low.

+1 on a rocket powered panda

Call it the " Po Go Stick "

Cabernut said:

Are you able to post pics? That's a cool looking rocket, it would be nice to see under construction.

By the way, how are the local government minders with rocket engines? How are you going to get this thing launched? My (probably wrong) impression is that they are "randomly heavy-handed", so keeping your head low is a good idea.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have access to flickr, so I can add photos. Here's one showing the joint between the unfinished "nosecone" segment and the body tube.



So far the photos I have aren't very interesting though ("look at this pipe, now here's another image of a pipe... and another"). Now that I'm working on the nosecone/boat tail, I'll have something worth showing once I get photos.

About the motors, I've found that there is a small number of rockets that are available online for purchase using Chinese made 18mm motors. However, HPR is likely well outside the realm of possibility for a foreigner. My plan is to build it capable of flight, and when the opportunity arises, take it with me to either the US, or Australia, and fly it there. If I find out about a club that does do HPR here, and a foreigner is welcome to join, then I'll fly it here.

One reason to build it is to have it as a prop for an ad featuring me as one of the foreign teachers at my school (and a planned summer camp this summer), as well as a display item in the school.

Salvage-1 said:

+1 on a rocket powered panda

Call it the " Po Go Stick "

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Actually, Kung Fu Panda is very popular here. I watched an acrobatic display that was sponsored by Dreamworks in promotion of the new movie. Unfortunately for me, it was dubbed into Mandarin, and didn't have English subtitles, so I didn't watch it. Fortunately for me, Star Wars - The Force Awakens was only subtitled in Chinese, so I was able to watch it with no problem.

K'Tesh said:

Yes, I have access to flickr, so I can add photos. Here's one showing the joint between the unfinished "nosecone" segment and the body tube.



So far the photos I have aren't very interesting though ("look at this pipe, now here's another image of a pipe... and another"). Now that I'm working on the nosecone/boat tail, I'll have something worth showing once I get photos.

About the motors, I've found that there is a small number of rockets that are available online for purchase using Chinese made 18mm motors. However, HPR is likely well outside the realm of possibility for a foreigner. My plan is to build it capable of flight, and when the opportunity arises, take it with me to either the US, or Australia, and fly it there. If I find out about a club that does do HPR here, and a foreigner is welcome to join, then I'll fly it here.

One reason to build it is to have it as a prop for an ad featuring me as one of the foreign teachers at my school (and a planned summer camp this summer), as well as a display item in the school.

Click to expand...

Thats awesome. Looks like you've got things covered. One of my favorite youtube rocketry videos was made by someone in the Netherlands or something where they only have up to D motors so he went with 4 booster pods that detached in flight...

Slight set back... This PVC is really brittle. I tried to cut the boat tail's crown last night, but developed a very large crack (not a complete fracture, but a definite weakening) on the root edge. I've taped it to prevent it from failing completely just by handling, but I've go no confidence in the strength of the material (from being squashed) at this time. To prevent if from cracking in the first place, I drilled holes where the points meet, fat lot of good that did.

I'm thinking that I should cut another one, this time with a longer root edge, after it's crowned, I'd then trim the root down to what I wanted (1 inch). Another idea I have is to put a "coupler" inside both the root edge and the trailing edge and cut the crown out with those in place.

K'Tesh said:

"look at this pipe, now here's another image of a pipe...

Click to expand...

Now look back! it’s an oyster with two tickets to that thing you love. Look again, the tickets are now diamonds.



I'm sorry. I don't know why that made me think of this.
I blame the weather and lack of rocketry. It's driving me batty.

mccordmw said:

Now look back! it’s an oyster with two tickets to that thing you love. Look again, the tickets are now diamonds.

View attachment 284569

I'm sorry. I don't know why that made me think of this.
I blame the weather and lack of rocketry. It's driving me batty.

Click to expand...

You've got a lack of rocketry? Imagine how I'm feeling right now... I'm trying to get by on <$15USD/day right now. I haven't picked up the hours that I was told I'd be getting, AND I'm having a hell of a time finding the materials needed to build. I don't mean to sound whiny, it's just the stress of trying to meet the demands of the parents.

K'Tesh said:

Slight set back... This PVC is really brittle. I tried to cut the boat tail's crown last night, but developed a very large crack (not a complete fracture, but a definite weakening) on the root edge. I've taped it to prevent it from failing completely just by handling, but I've go no confidence in the strength of the material (from being squashed) at this time. To prevent if from cracking in the first place, I drilled holes where the points meet, fat lot of good that did.

I'm thinking that I should cut another one, this time with a longer root edge, after it's crowned, I'd then trim the root down to what I wanted (1 inch). Another idea I have is to put a "coupler" inside both the root edge and the trailing edge and cut the crown out with those in place.

Click to expand...

If the PVC is brittle and resistant to bending/flexing, how about simply cutting the pieces you need completely out? Meaning if you were doing it with 5 sections, cut those sections completely out, have the base slightly curved and glue everything in just as if you were making a nose cone and then join to bt with a coupler? Sorry if I missed anything.