S200 ANGARA/SA-5 GAMMON Build, Finally!!!

I've wanted this model for quite some time, yet no one makes one, nor had I the pre-requisite skill sets to design and build one myself from scratch.
Well, I now feel quite confident that I can do this and fly it safely.

It won't be a perfect scale model, but it will look as good as I can make it, and still have it be flyable.

I'll start cutting tubes tomorrow!

Well, here we go!!!

Enjoy!

View attachment SA-5 Gammon Rev2.ork

I stared at this diagram long and hard, and then used the approximate proportions and a rear view of my model in OR to get started. The Boosters feature offset nozzles, as well as offset cones, so that has to be taken into account and kept in mind when looking at the boosters as a model component.
This will be a single stage 29mm, as that is something I feel I can safely pull off.
I'm sure there are those of you that could do this as a two stage with separating boosters, but I'm not quite there yet, and I want to keep this a Mid-Power rocket, as I am not L1 yet.





Lots of "Paper Hatting" about to happen....

I had my fin component material as "Cardboard".

That is just what automatically comes up as the "Default".
Nobody really makes fins out of Cardboard, do they??? Silly Openrocket.

Fixed it.

I'll keep updating my OR file as I find stupid crap like this and as I build and weigh individual components.

Lightweight Glassed Balsa will be probably be used for fins, and be plenty strong enough and lighter than Basswood.

View attachment SA-5 Gammon Rev3.ork

I like it

I managed to wrap my head around how to do the aft section of the rocket. Having the Booster Fins closer to where they would be on the real rocket adds to stability, meaning less nose weight is needed.

View attachment SA-5 Gammon Rev4.ork

With as much base drag that that rocket has with all the fins and tubes, (and yeah it's heavy back there, but) I'm surprised you need any nose weight.

dixontj93060 said:

With as much base drag that that rocket has with all the fins and tubes, (and yeah it's heavy back there, but) I'm surprised you need any nose weight.

Click to expand...

I may end up not needing any or much. It is nearly a cone.
In the sim I think I'm down to 2.5oz. of NW, and it is still plenty stable, which will be compounded by the addition of the nozzles for the boosters and the slight cone/bulge at the base of the sustainer on the actual model.

It's not too large for me to swing test anyway once it is done.

I have a nice selection of 2.6" nose cones of various weights to swing test with before I make the final cone.

Well, it turns out that my only one piece BT-80 stock that is long enough for this build is a heavy wall tube, and I only have enough of the BT-55 for two booster tubes, so it looks like I'll have to get an order for BMS together.
I could use it, but then I'de have to fill deep spirals, and the useable product would be much heavier than if I use the thinner walled tube with one wrap of .5oz. or .75oz. Glass Cloth.
I promised myself awhile back that I'll NEVER EVER fill spirals again.
Also, since it will need to be slotted, it is much easier to work with the thin stuff, glass it, then file the slots to the exact fit of the fin tabs.
The more precise everything fits, the less epoxy I need to use during assembly, and I won't need heavy fillets.
I prefer the clean lines of no fillets.

The nose cone on the Gammon is not the type that you would find commercially. I am open to farming it out to Gordon if need be, but for now I'm chopping up an unused LOC cone, as it's features and my imagination seem like a good solution.
It does not start to taper until approximately 1.25"-1.4" above the shoulder. It is obviously WAY too long, but by removing 2.75" from the middle, and using the top, I can match my sim, and possibly make something that looks right.
Might work, might not, but I'll learn somethings in the process.
This method worked out perfect for my TLP Martel, so it is not like I am in unfamiliar territory with this method.

op:

I look forward to seeing this come together! Would Fg be a viable option for the fins? Methinks that this sucker isn't going to be a high performance airframe and fiberglass sheet is easy to lay up if you have a couple of heavy plates.

Screaminhelo said:

op:


I look forward to seeing this come together! Would Fg be a viable option for the fins? Methinks that this sucker isn't going to be a high performance airframe and fiberglass sheet is easy to lay up if you have a couple of heavy plates.

Click to expand...

Thanks.
You mean as in actual solid Fiberglass? No, I'm just going to glass my balsa like I do. That way I know it will be lightweight. I'm used to doing it this way for the last 8 builds.
I need to get a work area set up first, as I like to follow John Cokers advice, and have an immaculate work-space to do layups or fins on.
Yeah, it won't be a performance bird, but solid FG would be a real pain to put together and heavy, and although I have some G10 sheets, I don't have a bandsaw, so those stayed in storage.

I press my fins and wings on a 120lb. sheet of Granite that is perfectly flat on one side, with a giant book and 40lbs of weights on top. I glass one side at a time.

If I had a shop and a bandsaw, the world would be a brighter place.

Glassed Balsa will suit me fine, and per my tests, will be stronger than, and lighter than Basswood, so nobody can bitch about my "Overbuilding".

Everything will be glassed. It makes the entire process of assembly so much easier.
Whether I make paper cones for the boosters, or use balsa or foam, those too will be glassed.

The nose come I'm making needs a paper transition to hold the top to the base/shoulder, and then that will be glassed.

Everything is easier to work with once it has been treated to at least .5 or .75oz. cloth.
No filling this or filling that, or using ounces upon ounces of primer....
Even my 13mm BT-20 AMRAAM is glassed.

I like it when I see the people that bitch about my glassing my low-power birds using ounces and ounces of fillers/bondo putty and multiple coats of primer, not to mention sanding spirals and sanding down all the fuzzies or imperfections. What Hell on Earth that is, not to mention the mess!
I have nerve,muscle and sinew damage in my right hand, compounded by arthritis. My sanding more than I absolutely have to days are over!
Heck, I'm in pain right now just from cutting that damned nose cone up.

I'm actually feeling under the weather from lack of sleep the past few days, so I need a break.
My back is extra screwed up from trying to use my kitchen counter and my computer desk as work areas.
I'll try to get back to this in a day or so.:wink:

Not having access to you saw would make it more of a chore. I was just thinking that a 3 ply layup with 1/2oz cloth may be lighter but still be strong enough. It seems as though anything that reduces aft weight would help on this build.

I'm sick with a bug that is going around.
I have not been sick with as much as a cold since 2001, so it's really kickin' my butt!
I barely felt like coming to the computer, but I'll try to get back to this build asap.

Rest up. I think that you'll need it for this one:wink:

The wings on this missile are one of the most prominent features visually speaking, and as such need to be as close to scale as possible.
I just found this thread, in the Techniques section, that shows a method that I think will allow me to do them well.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?132604-A-simple-balsa-fiberglass-fin-idea


Balsa stock is on its way to me from BMS.

Today, I started printing test transitions to put the nose cone together, but I need more 110# cardstock, so I'll go get that later at Walmart.

Looks like an amazing project! Can't wait to see how it comes together.

BC

Screaminhelo said:

Rest up. I think that you'll need it for this one:wink:

Click to expand...

I'm starting to feel quite a bit better today. Being sick for the first time in 15 years really knocked me for a loop!
A shout out to Vicks Dayquil and Nyquil for helping me make it through!

Yeah, this one will require quite the bit of attention to detail.

bclark989 said:

Looks like an amazing project! Can't wait to see how it comes together.

BC

Click to expand...

It should be quite the adventure, but I'm totally up for it and confident that I now have the building skills to do it up right.
Thanks.

TopRamen said:

I may end up not needing any or much. It is nearly a cone.
In the sim I think I'm down to 2.5oz. of NW, and it is still plenty stable, which will be compounded by the addition of the nozzles for the boosters and the slight cone/bulge at the base of the sustainer on the actual model.

It's not too large for me to swing test anyway once it is done.

I have a nice selection of 2.6" nose cones of various weights to swing test with before I make the final cone.

Click to expand...

I'm quoting myself in this post, to reflect on something I've learned since I made this post.

In my research, I have since come to learn, the reason for the geometry and design parameters of the booster's cones, was actually there as a stability enhancement.

Something definitely worth noting, as this knowledge has to factor into my Mindsim when I imagine the pathways the air will take as they meet my rocket.
I don't know if Openrocket could do this calculation even if you could model the cones, so I will learn it by flying it and trusting the fact that the original flies quite well while un-guided by control surfaces in the boost phase.
It doesn't need no stinkin' rail to fly from a dead standstill at 45 degrees without issue.
I imagine that the arrangement of the boosters, being set apart from the sustainer in a lateral fashion, also has a positive effect on the rockets ability to handle wind conditions.
These missiles had to launch from places like Siberia, where the winds and launch conditions can be brutal.

[video=youtube;DCssGjiUgqk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCssGjiUgqk[/video]

[video=youtube;F9TM91YXy1Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9TM91YXy1Y[/video]

PLRK S-200VE Vega raketa 5V28

https://fotoalba.xchat.cz/photos.ph...&onpage=24&key=25&inow=19624182&pnow=2&page=1

torkemado said:

View attachment 284010

PLRK S-200VE Vega raketa 5V28

https://fotoalba.xchat.cz/photos.ph...&onpage=24&key=25&inow=19624182&pnow=2&page=1

Click to expand...

Those photos are fantastic! They revealed a lot of details.

Thank You!!!

Well, it took me long enough to find these:

Presented for your viewing pleasure...




I actually found them just now, using a Mozilla Firefox Search for "SA-5 Gammon Model".

This site was the 4th or 5th down on the page:https://grabcad.com/library/sa-5-gammon-missile-1#!

Now I can properly model it!!!!!

This build just got a whole lot more interesting!!!

That Tail Section has a lot going on! Tail Cone with a ring around it will be fun!

Now when I finish mine, I'll be able to start a S200 Angara/SA-5 Gammon Scale Gallery.
Kidrocket kinda' stole the show with the TALOS, and knocked it out of the park for real with his attention to detail and display of craftsmanship.
He should start the TALOS Gallery.

I admire you for the research you are doing on this design/build.

dixontj93060 said:

I admire you for the research you are doing on this design/build.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

The research is one of the funnest parts of any build IMO.

Wow, I love these kind of projects where you have to figure out how to make the parts !
Nice project Good luck !

torkemado said:

Wow, I love these kind of projects where you have to figure out how to make the parts !
Nice project Good luck !

Click to expand...

Thanks.

I got my order of tubes and balsa from BMS today.
Now I just need a new workbench so I can start.

If you aren't a wood working craftsman, you don't need a workbench, a measurement pad, or a panel with holes in it to hold your tools. Working around the house is perfectly fine, it's what I do, just stay organized

But you should definitely buy a band saw and belt sander if you make parts often, they make working a breeze.

You can buy bandsaws real cheap nowadays,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/like/400976849799?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

I am lucky to have a full sized band saw in my garage, I find them so much easier to work with rather than the miniature band-saws.