S200 ANGARA/SA-5 GAMMON Build, Finally!!!

I've got a big stack of paper parts printed out that I need to start cutting tonight.
That does not sound like much fun, but I've been dragging my feet on this build for awhile. Might also start marking the BT of the sustainer for parts placement.

View attachment 288828Today I worked on my prototype of the Paper To Glass Molding Frame. I took this project on for another member, just to test it for him and give him some baseline data, but I needed to test this method for use in this build, and doing it for someone else when the opportunity presented itself was perfect, as I require interaction and extra motivation to produce rockets.
Anyhow, the idea is to see how well I can mass produce a single batch of products/pieces, to ensure uniformity. This seemed like a good starting point for my needs. A two dimensional piece that requires creasing and bending post production to become three dimensional, and structurally proficient at the duties that will be required of it. I've learned a lot about lightweight building techniques, and here is my chance to showcase them.
Just because Glass is involved does not mean it has to be heavy!
Jeez, the balsa cores for the wings of this bird only weigh 9g. for all four!

Anyhow, here's where I'm at on the 2 to 3 D Press so far. It will be used to facet the wing skins. It also hopefully makes nice Sparrow AIM7F Wing Gussets:

View attachment 288824


I had to delete some of the attachments, because they failed to show the step where I lined the pieces up with the aluminum angle.

Next I'll make the splines for the center of each half of the press, that they may be Identical at first for dry-fitting, lest they require modification or re-design. :wink:
Then I can fit/mark the locations for the threaded rod.
It is a press after all.
I hope for it to someday be a real press, that makes stampings out of FG.
I stretching my Mind into every section of this forum, and loving every minute of it!
I've begun to dream about building rockets, and am thoroughly consumed with it. No complaints here at all!

This is looking good! Definitely learning tons.

Rob702Martinez said:

This is looking good! Definitely learning tons.

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Thanks Rob.

I have to develop all these new techniques and learn new skill sets to pull this one off. That's what makes it worth my while to do.
I'm more of a builder than a flyer, so if it takes awhile and I have to learn a whole bunch of new stuff, that's what I'm hoping for.

I finally found something to use to make the brackets that the booster struts will attach to, so I can make the struts now.
They will require skeletonizing, as there is no need for the mass of the central portion, but they will do what I need them to, and by having them, I can now make the struts.

I ran out of Epoxy for glassing building parts for a rocket that I'm not even building yet and doing the practice parts, but I ordered more and it should be here today as it was Amazon Prime Eligible.
It's funny that this build actually has me seeing how easy the TALOS build could be, so I have been tinkering with that one as of late too, and have the nose cone for it nearly ready to epoxy the cone tip onto. The Nose Cone Alignment Jig I made for this build will help with that!
Paper parts skills will be needed too, and I'm developing those in abundance for this one.
The things that make the TALOS so cool are the Canard Fins and the Ram Jet Intake Nose Cone. You have to do them justice.

I feel good enough about doing the boosters now, so I went ahead and cut them to size tonight, er, yesterday.:yawn:

I am too tired to do anything else right now but print some paper parts, and then I need to rack out, but these are going to be getting the attention they've been lacking pretty soon, and if it ever stops being winter here, I can finish the wings for the sustainer soon too.

In the foreground is the BT-60 piece I reinforced and used as a guide to cut each of them as straight as possible. I gave myself about a millimeter of tolerance on the cut, and hit my mark, so a few touches of the sandpaper and they will each be identical. I have enough remaining stock to make two more if needed, but tomorrow each one will be weighed, and assigned a number, 1-4, so they can stay identical thoughout construction, and if one goes out of tolerance, it will be noted and I will do my best to either correct it or follow the steps to replace it.
This will be my first rocket that has this many pieces this large which each need to have the same CG and such.

When I woke up, I realized I should just cut another booster, and do it right along with the others, so that if one goes wrong, I don't have to go back and try to do a single unit.
I'll just do 5, then use the four best, and that gives me a better margin for both error and success.
If I end up with a perfect 5th booster, I'll make a nice display stand for it, and keep it on hand in case damage occurs to one of the others.
The boosters are now being made as removable units, as I found these great clip thingies at Joann Fabrics, that will allow me to snap them on and off, yet have so little play as to be perfect for this application. The clips also mean I don't need to rely one the struts as much for structural support, so I can go ahead and make them more cosmetic than durable, meaning I needn't hesitate any longer to use my best available method.
The clips are made of black polymer, and originally intended as clasps for 550 cord bracelets, and they will go between each set of struts, both front and rear, and though hidden for the most part by the struts themselves, they will nicely represent the part which I assume facilitates separation on the real deal, and is visible in the photos of the real one of you look for it, though it does not garner annotation on the line drawing.
The clips are remarkable in their quality and fit, and during assembly, wisps of a cotton ball will get placed between the mating surfaces to limit any abrasion and wear that may occur during regular handling, though it is probably not necessary, as they are meant to be worn on a paracord bracelet, which itself is a high wear and durable item by nature.
I will be able to use tweezers or a hemostat to unlock them.

I filled the slight spirals on the coupler stock booster tubes with Bondo Spot and Glazing Putty after priming them.



Tomorrow I'll sand them down and refill if necessary and then cut the bands for the boosters from BT-60 stock.

I found a whole bunch of Clevises hiding inside a discarded umbrella today.
They are plenty lightweight and rigid enough to put inside the transitions that make the rear booster struts, and the right size too. Now I won't have to order them. I hope I can make them work, but they look like they will.

The Sustainer is no harder than a hard TLP Kit, so I am ready to start assembling it. I stuck the tail cone/booster ring in as far as it will go, to use the BT to hold it while I drill my epoxy rivets.
The rings got rivets too, but because they are heavy paper, I poked the holes with a sewing needle. Against a piece of lite ply for the small holes, and then just a straight poke all the way through for the larger ones. You won't see these areas anyhow when it is finished, and it is essential to the strength of this assembly that it is joined in such a fashion, so that it does not de-laminate over time.
I built this new assembly cradle specifically for the sustainer, to allow for the length of the wings and such.
I still need some threaded rod for something else it will do, but I can get started with the big parts now.

Got all the prep work done, to include preliminary measurements to make sure that everything will be perfect with my digital caliper, and then realized it is too cold to open the doors and windows to use epoxy, so that would have to wait til' tomorrow/today.


I did some body tube marking, as I will cut any and all holes and slots prior to scuffing up the surface and glassing.
Just my personal preference.


That way, if I screw it up, I have not wasted epoxy and glass cloth, and I just go grab another length of BT-80 and start again.
I have a bunch of stuff to do today, but if I get around to it I'll try to get some more done later after I get some sleep.

WOW , amazing project! look forward to see how it comes together.

MostafaAwad said:

WOW , amazing project! look forward to see how it comes together.

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Thanks.

It has literally been years in the making, as it took me so long to find an "almost accurate" drawing.
As the Great Sodmiester would say, I'll need to take "Carte Blanche", A.K.A. "Artistic Liberties" with this one to a small degree, but having stared at the photos of the actual missile for so many hours now, I have developed a good sense of it in my mind, and frequently see it in my dreams.
I have made all sorts test parts that were pretty silly in order to come up with ones worthy of sharing here, and in the process been exposed to so many new building techniques, and developed a couple new ones too.
We should see an assembled sustainer by the end of this month, and the boosters should be ready by the middle of June.

Hopefully it all happens sooner, but I've learned the value of patience with this build.

On a scale of 1 - 10, I rate this build as "epic". Can't wait to see how it all turns out, and even more so what it looks like in the air.

neil_w said:

On a scale of 1 - 10, I rate this build as "epic". Can't wait to see how it all turns out, and even more so what it looks like in the air.

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Thank You!


I hope someday to be able to due a proper one with boosters that separate and a sustainer that airstarts, but that will require L1 and a proper workshop, so maybe a few more years yet.
Forum member Adrian has an Epic Thunderbird that does that, and there is a video in the Scale section that is most Epic indeed!!!
This one ought to look good in the air just the same, as the profile is so much different than the everyday stuff.
I'm finishing off a LPR bird tonight, as It was too cold to properly ventilate the work area to play with epoxy today.
I may get around to some mor ebody tube marking tonight, but that tail cone booster ring has to wait til' it's warm enough to have the fans going and the doors and windows open, as if I'm going to mix up my thin epoxy, I want to maybe get some glassing in while I'm at it, and the wings for this are ready to be and need glassed.

Everytime I visit your build, I learn something new. really looking forward to seeing the next few steps.

When it is expected to fly? I like the Saturn V not because it is beautiful, but because of 13 starts 13 were successful.

WOW , amazing project ,, i loved it

SaturnV said:

When it is expected to fly? I like the Saturn V not because it is beautiful, but because of 13 starts 13 were successful.

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Hopefully end of June, early July. It is draggy enough to fly safely in my normal park on a zero wind conditions launch, but I hope to have a bigger field to fly in by then.
Oh, and it will likely fly in Primer for it's maiden flight.
I'll be satisfied after one flight, as I like building better than flying, but I'm sure I'll fly it more than once.
My flights are always successful regardless.

Thanks for the reply, will look forward flight.

I got the tail cone booster ring assembly assembled yesterday, but I thought it would be ok to use 15 minute epoxy on it. It may have been, but I mixed up a batch of nearly 1 oz. and forgot about how epoxy heats up on an exponential scale.
I did my first pour for the FG transition layer, and by the time I had that tucked in properly and squeezed the two main components together, I looked up to see my little plastic cup of epoxy starting to list to one side!:y:
Only four minutes had elapsed on the clock.
I picked it up thinking that maybe I could quickly pour some more, and the entire batch turned to a glob, so I put it back in place, took my gloves off and grabbed my camera to get a pic', before dumping it in the paper bag for mess and tossing it out the door, for fear of possible fire hazard. It was the definition of "Hot Mess".
I got new gloves, and my caliper, and worked the two components together gently while the stuff I had already added to them was still curing, apparently cooler than the "Reactor" I had inadvertently created in my mixing cup.

The temperature in the house was 65 degrees, which I thought would have kept it cool, but being that I had not used the BSI 15 minute stuff in some time, I had forgotten about some of the basic properties of it, as described on their website.
In frustration, I went to my Mom's to help her with her garden.
When I got back, I decided that it must have been a bad batch of epoxy, so I posted about my misadventure in the "Rocketwise Today" thread.
Someone was quick to spot my error, and not only pointed it out, but even included the info from the BSI Site to back it up, so at least I knew it was my fault for mixing up a nearly one ounce batch, and I felt better about simply screwing up AND LEARNING A LESSON, than I would have felt if it was the products fault.
Having not used the 15 minute stuff in well over a year, I had become complacent, and paid the price for my lack of diligence and attention to detail.:blush:
That's all well and good now, as I definitely will not do that again.:wink:

Anyhow, thankfully, having been dry fitting the parts together and taking them back apart for a couple of months now, they were fitted such that I ended up with a tolerance range in the concentric height of the part from 70.91mm-70.43mm, so a half a mm variance, which is within my tolerance margin for this part, as the mounts for the booster struts will be held on with a piece of 3" stock that goes over the booster ring which is made from 3" coupler stock.
Trying to get any closer to what is plenty good enough would likely yield a lesser quality part, as I would have to dry fit assemble and disassemble it ad nauseum to get it perfect again.

The only issue I was now faced with was that the epoxy had thickened too quickly, meaning I knew I had not achieved the expected saturation of the 5oz. glass transition piece, which is the most critical sub-component of this assembly strength wise in my mind build sim.
After I learned what my mistake was, it was time to figure out what to do next, so I did.
I decided the best course of action would be to drill a series of holes through the transition, into which I can infuse the 20 minute epoxy, to insure that the FG transition ring is thoroughly saturated. The holes will be sanded smooth and covered with a veneer of .75 glass anyhow, so it won't effect the look of the finished component.
In drilling the holes, which I did by hand with my Fiskars hand drill and a #57 Wire Gauge bit, and a 5/64ths bit I confirmed my suspicion that the part had indeed not been saturated in a uniform manner, as I could feel the differences in consistency as I drilled through the layers.

It will be fine when I get the 20 minute stuff in there.

Before I get any further ahead of myself, I took a few moments to take the piece outside and sand the edges smooth so I could fit it to the 3" stock that will form the retention band for the hardpoints the struts mount to.
To do this, I took the spool from a roll of gorilla tape, and used double sided clear tape to affix an internal ring of 120 grit sandpaper to it.
The tail cone booster ring assembly will get fitted to the sustainer body tube before the rings hard point retention band, so that I can use a set of centering rings to hold a length of 3" body tube to the 2.6" tube while fitting the tail cone/MMT assembly for final bonding, so that it is lined up perfectly straight, similar to how my nose cone joinery jig works. When that is in place permanently, then I can move on to the hard point band, and be confident the points will all be equidistant from the axis of the sustainer.
These pic's illustrate the sander I made and the fitting.:




Sadly, I just ran out of Nitrile gloves, so this build is going on the shelf til' I get more gloves.
I'll have to find some wood glue projects to play with and maybe do more body tube marking and dry fitting the pieces parts to the booster tubes, which still need some more sanding.
I can also work on shaping the nose cone some, as that can be done in a non-toxic manner as well.

Atleast I finally go that tail cone booster ring put together permanently.
Though it still needs the 20 minute saturation, it is a big weight off my shoulders, so I'm quite happy with it so far.

TopRamen said:

I got the tail cone booster ring assembly assembled yesterday, but I thought it would be ok to use 15 minute epoxy on it. It may have been, but I mixed up a batch of nearly 1 oz. and forgot about how epoxy heats up on an exponential scale.
I did my first pour for the FG transition layer, and by the time I had that tucked in properly and squeezed the two main components together, I looked up to see my little plastic cup of epoxy starting to list to one side!:y:
Only four minutes had elapsed on the clock.
I picked it up thinking that maybe I could quickly pour some more, and the entire batch turned to a glob, so I put it back in place, took my gloves off and grabbed my camera to get a pic', before dumping it in the paper bag for mess and tossing it out the door, for fear of possible fire hazard. It was the definition of "Hot Mess".
I got new gloves, and my caliper, and worked the two components together gently while the stuff I had already added to them was still curing, apparently cooler than the "Reactor" I had inadvertently created in my mixing cup.
View attachment 291339
The temperature in the house was 65 degrees, which I thought would have kept it cool, but being that I had not used the BSI 15 minute stuff in some time, I had forgotten about some of the basic properties of it, as described on their website.
In frustration, I went to my Mom's to help her with her garden.
When I got back, I decided that it must have been a bad batch of epoxy, so I posted about my misadventure in the "Rocketwise Today" thread.
Someone was quick to spot my error, and not only pointed it out, but even included the info from the BSI Site to back it up, so at least I knew it was my fault for mixing up a nearly one ounce batch, and I felt better about simply screwing up AND LEARNING A LESSON, than I would have felt if it was the products fault.
Having not used the 15 minute stuff in well over a year, I had become complacent, and paid the price for my lack of diligence and attention to detail.:blush:
Snip...

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You can mix pretty good size batches of fifteen minute hobby epoxy, but it must not be in a deep container like a cup, and never in a plastic cup. I used paper hot drink cups (non coated, definitely not styrofoam) to mix, then immediately pour it into a shallow container like a microwave dinner tray.
If you mix it in a plastic cup and it cooks off, like it did with you, don't pick it up; the bottom could melt out, dropping boiling hot epoxy on you. That's a bad day.

Steve Shannon said:

You can mix pretty good size batches of fifteen minute hobby epoxy, but it must not be in a deep container like a cup, and never in a plastic cup. I used paper hot drink cups (non coated, definitely not styrofoam) to mix, then immediately pour it into a shallow container like a microwave dinner tray.
If you mix it in a plastic cup and it cooks off, like it did with you, don't pick it up; the bottom could melt out, dropping boiling hot epoxy on you. That's a bad day.

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Yeah, my last thoughts before going to sleep last night were of how I could get better working time out of it, and I reflected on some of the threads I've read here in that regard.
I'll just save it for smaller things, and next time I need 20 minute epoxy I'll USE 20 minute epoxy.
I can't afford to go buying epoxies by the gallon, nor do I even have any more room for such things, so for now the hobby size BSI stuff will be what I'm using, just incase anyone was about to chime in and try to turn this into an Epoxy thread, and why X Epoxy should be used, even though it only comes in half gallon cans/jugs, and costs $60-$80+S&H.
When I move, I'll get a real workshop, and there will be cabinets for things like that.:wink:

Everything is practice. When I need a quick drying epoxy I heat up to 60 degrees Celsius, put hardener, stir 10 seconds and pour. When he announces slower curing glue of details still heat up to 40 degrees but then sticks to much longer. Many times happened to me the same as gain experience When the resin is hardened exponentially fast in an instant simply puts the court with hot epoxy resin in tap and flushing
PS Google translator is ...

Yesterday and today had me making this tube cutting jig in order to be able to take the headache out of cutting the hardpoint retention band and all the bands I'll need from BT-60 to go on the booster bodies which are made from BT-60 coupler stock.
Now every band can be perfectly identical where required.
I know it seems like a lot of work to build this jig just to make bands for this rocket, but it is worth it in my opinion, and now I'll always have perfectly cut tubes for other projects too.
One of the things making me procrastinate on my progress on the boosters was what a PITA it was going to be to cut all the bands, and make them identical. Now I can make them all perfect in one cutting session in about half an hour if it even takes that long.

TopRamen. Probably more than I'd strive for, but really like the tube cutter!

dixontj93060 said:

TopRamen. Probably more than I'd strive for, but really like the tube cutter!

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Thanks.
Now I need to build a box to fit that Viper III Body into.
I have not forgotten. I just don't want it getting detroyed during shipping, so I need to make a glassed fin jig that will defend the fin section from damage. Two boxes put together ought to be wide enough.