Can we talk LaserLOCs?

So the Esoteric/Top Gunn thread got me to thinking about LaserLOCS...I never had one back in the day...

They made them in 1.5", 2.1", 2.6", and 3.1", I think. FG fins, hardwood cones, and boattails on the 2.6" and 3.1", right?

I think I might have some cones that will work for clones of these awesome birds. I will take some pics later today and share them...in the meantime, what do you guys know about this series?

As you know I got a L.L 2.1 and I have a lead on a 3.1. According to the LOC Doc Barry they wont come back under the LOC banner due to the hardwood cone. I may do a bit of talking as I think a fiberglass cone could work plus there would be a area for ballast.

I first saw a LaserLOC 3.1 at LDRS-8.

Dr. Mike Reiner had a beautiful LaserLOC 3.1 powered by an AeroTech K250, 54mm, long-burn motor.

The flight was great but the recovery was not. The delay was too short and the nose cone with parachute broke away and were never seen again. The main body free-fell and was recovered. As I recall there was a 4-5" 'zipper' in the upper body tube.

Fast-forward many months. I was reading a NAR section newsletter (This was in the pre-internet era) which had a notice that LOC was doing a limited run of LaserLOC 3.1 kits.
I immediately called LOC and spoke with Deb Schultz (It was always fun talking to Deb). She asked how I had found out as they had not yet announced the availability of these kits. Deb let me know that Ron had done a run of six LaserLOC 3.1 kits. I asked if I could order one and she said she'd put one on hold with my name on it.

After hanging up the phone I wrote out a check for the amount, enclosed a note in an envelope with the check and dropped the letter off at the Post Office.

A week and a half later, a long box from LOC showed up. It was the LaserLOC 3.1 kit.

It was/is an amazing kit. Ron was/is a master of woodworking.
The nose cone and boat tail were beautifully made and finished pieces of wood. The grain was fantastic looking.
I couldn't see myself painting over that amazing wood so I put the kit away for another time.

Ok, so take a look at these. The 1.5" and 2.1" cones in the first pic I got from Scott S out of an old stash of stuff.

The 2.6" I bought from Sydney Price of High Sierra Rocketry in around 1993. It is a very nice cone, coated in epoxy. She had to order it special for me, not sure where she got it. Was there ever a 2.6" LaserLOC?

Last on is 3", also from Scott S's old stash.



Are any of these usable as a LaserLOC clones?

Initiator001 said:

I first saw a LaserLOC 3.1 at LDRS-8.

Dr. Mike Reiner had a beautiful LaserLOC 3.1 powered by an AeroTech K250, 54mm, long-burn motor.

The flight was great but the recovery was not. The delay was too short and the nose cone with parachute broke away and were never seen again. The main body free-fell and was recovered. As I recall there was a 4-5" 'zipper' in the upper body tube.

Fast-forward many months. I was reading a NAR section newsletter (This was in the pre-internet era) which had a notice that LOC was doing a limited run of LaserLOC 3.1 kits.
I immediately called LOC and spoke with Deb Schultz (It was always fun talking to Deb). She asked how I had found out as they had not yet announced the availability of these kits. Deb let me know that Ron had done a run of six LaserLOC 3.1 kits. I asked if I could order one and she said she'd put one on hold with my name on it.

After hanging up the phone I wrote out a check for the amount, enclosed a note in an envelope with the check and dropped the letter off at the Post Office.

A week and a half later, a long box from LOC showed up. It was the LaserLOC 3.1 kit.

It was/is an amazing kit. Ron was/is a master of woodworking.
The nose cone and boat tail were beautifully made and finished pieces of wood. The grain was fantastic looking.
I couldn't see myself painting over that amazing wood so I put the kit away for another time.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bob. Do you still have the kit?

I'd be interested if they do another run.

On similar note: does LOC still make the HD 3" motor tubes?

JD

Dang, Jason beat me to it. That LOC Top Gun Esoteric thread really got me to thinking about the Laser LOC's. I recall seeing black and white pictures in HPR magazine but never saw one in the flesh. Any pictures would be greatly appreciated!!!

The 2.1 were commonly launched with J125 and K250s. Cardboard tube, surface mount fins, no fiberglass reinforcements.

M

I still have original kits. The taller one is the the EA (extreme altitude) version introduced when the K250 became available.

Rocketjunkie said:

I still have original kits. The taller one is the the EA (extreme altitude) version introduced when the K250 became available.
View attachment 282854

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Very cool!

J Blatz said:

Was there ever a 2.6" LaserLOC?

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I don't think there ever was. I only remember seeing 1.5, 2.1, and 3.1.

Here is my 2.1 Laser Loc on the shops wall.

My Laser Loc 2.1 was originally built from a kit just as the OP mentioned: FG fins, hardwood nosecone, etc. However it is 2 for 2 in flight with failed motors. After disassembling itself via the 2 CATOs, about the only thing remaining from the original kit are the fins.

I retrofitted its current reincarnation with a LOC molded plastic nosecone. This was to save the hardwood original nosecone which I did not want to loose with another failed motor. The hollow plastic nosecone is heavily weighted at the forward most end to move the final rocket CG forward. Also the original paper bodytube was lost in the first launch attempt. Now it sports a PML phenolic tube and a payload section for an ejection timer. My attempt was to retain the original length x width profile, albeit with replacement non-original components. The original kit contained an absurdly small nylon parachute for those high altitude recovery deployments. (This was in the days before dual deployment or altitude sensing event electronics.)

I never saw the Laser Loc series shown for sale in the original LOC catalogs. However, they were frequently brought to the bigger launches at Lucerne in the late 80s. This is where I bought mine directly from Ron Schultz.

It would not be hard to replicate the LL series. It seems like an upgraded version with improved components, such as Blue Tube stock for the bodytube, would be very achievable. When I have time I will scan in the original instructions sheet and post it.

All the Laser Loc series were a minimum weight max performance set of rocket kits from the earlier days of HP.

I had the 3.1. Crashed it on the 3rd flight but still have the booster. The fins were surface mounted, though there were slots in the airframe that went about halfway through the wall thickness of the cardboard tube. I also had a 2.1 that was lost an a J100.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKZYDJiVhYc[/video]

J Blatz said:

Thanks Bob. Do you still have the kit?

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Yes along with a sealed LaserLOC 2.1. :wink:

So, it is basically a vintage dragster.

Looking at it, the fins do not look much different than the fins of a Little Nuke. The cone is obviously turned wood so it could achieve a given mass to pull Cg ahead.

Who has a rocksim file for the 2.1?

The nosecone appear to be an ogive lathed to a point- more or less.

I was lucky enought to hold one of the 3.0 LL that flew on a 38 mm DPS J1000. Blistered the paint on the fins .

Eric

And here we go, first flight on a CTI 543I297 skidmark and third flight on an AT I284W:

I was and I'm still impressed by the wooden parts and the special tubing LOC used at that time. (This kit was the reason I later on wanted to get one of Doug Stout's Arcas4.08'' kits he made some years ago, with the same extra thickwalled tubing, tremendous wooden parts from the nose to the boattail/fins)

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Thanks for the interesting back story. What was the thickness of the LOC tubing at that time? I'm just curious.

Tim51 said:

What was the thickness of the LOC tubing at that time? I'm just curious.

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Well, the LL 1.5 and 2.1 airframe has been .055'' and .060" respectively. That's the stuff that was also sold regularly by LOC, here is one page from the '89-'90 catalogue:



I don't have found any specs for the 3.1 airframe (and I'm not sure they sold it separately) despite the fact that the airframe's given OD should be 3.19'', so I went down and checked, thickness is indeed .095'' !



This tubing is very strong coated cardboard that has a near perfect smooth surface ready to prime and paint.

Alex

QUOTE=paulumbo;1585215]Well, the LL 1.5 and 2.1 airframe has been .055'' and .060" respectively. That's the stuff that was also sold regularly by LOC, here is one page from the '89-'90 catalogue:

View attachment 291574

I don't have found any specs for the 3.1 airframe (and I'm not sure they sold it separately) despite the fact that the airframe's given OD should be 3.19'', so I went down and checked, thickness is indeed .095'' !

View attachment 291575

This tubing is very strong coated cardboard that has a near perfect smooth surface ready to prime and paint.

Alex[/QUOTE]


Thanks again for the detail - I was just wondering if the thickness differed significantly from the current LOC 54mm MMT/ 2.1" tube, which is also used as airframe, and is also different from other calibre tubing: <<https://shop.locprecision.com/product.sc?productId=15&categoryId=19>>.... Clearly it does:

Yeah, that's an excellent tubing, I have one of those left too, it fit's the PML nosecones and has an amazing price-quality ratio!

Cool. Thanks for bumping this and adding content!

The heavy wall tube the Laser-LOC 3.1 uses is still available as 75mm motor mount tube https://shop.locprecision.com/product.sc?productId=93&categoryId=26

Rocketjunkie said:

The heavy wall tube the Laser-LOC 3.1 uses is still available as 75mm motor mount tube https://shop.locprecision.com/product.sc?productId=93&categoryId=26

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Thanks - good to know for future scratch building etc. Does anyone know if that 75mm MMT is also compatible with PML NC ?

Tim51 said:

Thanks - good to know for future scratch building etc. Does anyone know if that 75mm MMT is also compatible with PML NC ?

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hmm,

according to the specs given e.g. at Apogee's etc. this LOC MMTHD ("heavy duty") has .08(1)'' thickness (OD = 3.162''). .080 thick tubes have been used by LOC for a long time, usually for lager diameters.
Rocketreviews lists a "LOC MMTHD-3.000" with diameters 2.990 - 3.180 // 3.000 -3.180.

The LL 3.19's tube is indeed 0.095 strong, I checked several places to mesure, the Nose reaches 3.19'' as well.

Why should Ron Shultz have given an OD=3.19 in his advertise and building instructions if it wasn't that large?
And should the paper as well as the wood have stretched then?

Remember that LOC had already many years ago very special tubing made:
a "tube coupler stiffener", today called "stiffy", to be glued inside the coupler itself with
(according again to Apogee's) STC 3.00: ID = 2.625'' and OD = 2.878'', resulting in a thickness of about .125'' !!!),
rocketreviews knows one too: 2.7047 / 2.9291 inch.

By the way: The PML 3.00 NC should have a base diameter of 3.10'' at the maximum, you'll have a small step to the airframe to feel or fill.

paulumbo said:

By the way: The PML 3.00 NC should have a base diameter of 3.10'' at the maximum, you'll have a small step to the airframe to feel or fill.

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Thanks!

Most of the laser locs that were custom made such as the 1.5, 2.1, 2.1EA(extreme altitude), and 3.1 boatail utilized our stock tubing. There was no 2.6 laser loc....reason being the BT2.56 was too thin. Don't forget that the laser loc airframe tubes had partially machined slots into them so that the fin was actually setting into the airframe tube. This could not be done using tubing like the BT-2.56. All bass wood nose cones for these series were specially machined. How I loved working with wood. aeg.