Loc Esoteric & Top Gunn: Dinosaur builds!

cavecentral · May 11, 2017

aeg said:
When I sold loc to Barry, I gave him all the dimensions of all the loc custom kits. P.S. Great article!!! aeg.

I'm thinking Barry never did the transitions and other parts. You turned / machined these yourself, right?

aeg · May 12, 2017

cavecentral said:
I'm thinking Barry never did the transitions and other parts. You turned / machined these yourself, right?

Hi Kevin, you know I did! We sure used to have a lot of fun at Longwood Park. Tell Todd and Chrissy that Deb and I said "hi"
Take care. aeg.

cavecentral · May 12, 2017

aeg said:
Hi Kevin, you know I did! We sure used to have a lot of fun at Longwood Park. Tell Todd and Chrissy that Deb and I said "hi"
Take care. aeg.

Great memories. I'll let them know.

ECayemberg · May 18, 2017

Hey, thanks for stopping by, Ron!!! And Kevin too!

Still haven't flown the Esoteric yet...too windy at LDRS. Plan is to fly it on home turf at the TWA Bong launch on 6/3. K1440 White Thunder airstarting two I405's and then another two I405's.

Did have it on display at Rockets for Schools last weekend...

-Eric-

grouch · May 19, 2017

That is so cool. I bet that makes a huge impression on the kids.

ECayemberg · Jun 2, 2017

grouch said:
That is so cool. I bet that makes a huge impression on the kids.

Thanks Jarrett!

Final prepping now, the calm before the storm....ready to spew some fire!

Weather permitting, the Esoteric takes flight at the Tripoli Wisconsin launch at Da Bong tomorrow.

djs · Jun 2, 2017

ECayemberg said:
Weather permitting, the Esoteric takes flight at the Tripoli Wisconsin launch at Da Bong tomorrow.

I won't be at the launch so please take pictures! Just curious- what are you using for altimeters to do the airstarts?

ECayemberg · Jun 2, 2017

djs said:
I won't be at the launch so please take pictures! Just curious- what are you using for altimeters to do the airstarts?

Bummer, will miss you Glen!

Missileworks RRC3's for the airstarts and deployment events. A single RRC2+ for deployment event redundancy.

-Eric-

djs · Jun 3, 2017

So... how did it fly?

markkoelsch · Jun 3, 2017

Eric, I too had to miss the launch due to family commitments. That is a very cool rocket- hope to see it go.

Different question. On you electronics bay sled you have cut outs on each corner- what are they for?

marcusSRG · Jun 3, 2017

Can't wait to see the results!!!

ECayemberg · Jun 3, 2017

Quick answer...it flew. Recovered well with no damage, more damage to the recovery team wrestling the beast out of the devil tree bongjungle.

Airstarts did not light....first time I tried airstarting with rrc3's and no go. Mega bummer, but will do some diagnostics to learn why. 4 for 4 matches did not fire; all continuity checked out.

More later...got a few good photos!

Thanks all!

markkoelsch · Jun 4, 2017

ECayemberg said:
Quick answer...it flew. Recovered well with no damage, more damage to the recovery team wrestling the beast out of the devil tree bongjungle.

Airstarts did not light....first time I tried airstarting with rrc3's and no go. Mega bummer, but will do some diagnostics to learn why. 4 for 4 matches did not fire; all continuity checked out.

More later...got a few good photos!

Thanks all!

Eric, too bad about the airstarts. What matches did you use?
What settings on the aux channel did you use?

aeg · Jun 4, 2017

ECayemberg said:
Hey, thanks for stopping by, Ron!!! And Kevin too!

Still haven't flown the Esoteric yet...too windy at LDRS. Plan is to fly it on home turf at the TWA Bong launch on 6/3. K1440 White Thunder airstarting two I405's and then another two I405's.

Did have it on display at Rockets for Schools last weekend...

-Eric-

Hi Eric, glad to read that the Esoteric was recovered intact even though it had an air start mishap! Here's a few tidbits on the Esoteric. I didn't have a name for it once built, so I took a dictionary and randomly opened it up. I pointed to a word...it was "esoteric". How fitting. In the one photo shown at LDRS-5 as a group of us carried the Esoteric to the launch pad, that was me in front followed by my friend Don, then Jesse my son, David (Debbie's brother), and Gary Rosenfield. Did you know that at LDRS 5 in Medina, the Esoteric was flown twice? The first flight on Saturday used 1-J700 & 2-I140s. On Sunday, it was loaded up with a disposable Aerotech experimental K1500 & 2-I140s. Simple motor delays were used and both flights were recovered with no damage. aeg.

marcusSRG · Jun 4, 2017

aeg said:
Hi Eric, glad to read that the Esoteric was recovered intact even though it had an air start mishap! Here's a few tidbits on the Esoteric. I didn't have a name for it once built, so I took a dictionary and randomly opened it up. I pointed to a word...it was "esoteric". How fitting. In the one photo shown at LDRS-5 as a group of us carried the Esoteric to the launch pad, that was me in front followed by my friend Don, then Jesse my son, David (Debbie's brother), and Gary Rosenfield. Did you know that at LDRS 5 in Medina, the Esoteric was flown twice? The first flight on Saturday used 1-J700 & 2-I140s. On Sunday, it was loaded up with a single, experimental K1500. Simple motor delays were used and both flights were recovered with no damage. aeg.

Very cool!!!

3stoogesrocketry · Jun 4, 2017

aeg said:
Hi Eric, glad to read that the Esoteric was recovered intact even though it had an air start mishap! Here's a few tidbits on the Esoteric. I didn't have a name for it once built, so I took a dictionary and randomly opened it up. I pointed to a word...it was "esoteric". How fitting. In the one photo shown at LDRS-5 as a group of us carried the Esoteric to the launch pad, that was me in front followed by my friend Don, then Jesse my son, David (Debbie's brother), and Gary Rosenfield. Did you know that at LDRS 5 in Medina, the Esoteric was flown twice? The first flight on Saturday used 1-J700 & 2-I140s. On Sunday, it was loaded up with a single, experimental K1500. Simple motor delays were used and both flights were recovered with no damage. aeg.

AGE , by any chance do you remember who made the K1500? That is a heck of a motor for that time period .

Eric

rfjustin · Jun 4, 2017

3stoogesrocketry said:
AGE , by any chance do you remember who made the K1500? That is a heck of a motor for that time period .

Eric

Vulcan, Rockflyte (sp?), or other?

nraymondb · Jun 5, 2017

rfjustin said:
Vulcan, Rockflyte (sp?), or other?

Aerotech made a K1500

3stoogesrocketry · Jun 5, 2017

nraymondb said:
Aerotech made a K1500View attachment 321436

Nice find Nik.

djs · Jun 5, 2017

FYI- pictures of the Esoteric launch are up here, courtesy of Kevin Harnack.

https://tripoliwisconsin.org/Harnack June 2017/index.html

including this awesome one:

aeg · Jun 5, 2017

Aerotech supplied the experimental K1500. It was a disposable motor that really kicked some booty. We used that one along with 2-I140s. If memory serves me correct, it bent one of the tri-pod launchers' legs when it lifted off. I happened to catch that detail in film that was developed a few days later. One thing that I can say back then...it was always Aerotech and Loc....these were BEST of times. aeg.

ECayemberg · Jun 6, 2017

markkoelsch said:
Eric, too bad about the airstarts. What matches did you use?
What settings on the aux channel did you use?

The now standard orange lead ematches...I could not tell you the exact source, I usually buy 100+ at a time. I've done some diagnostics, still don't have a clear answer. The altimeters definitely had enough juice; the airstart igniters were the exact same matches used for the ejection charges, and all 6 e-charges fired, none of the 4 airstart matched did however. Uploaded the flight data, the minimum altitude was met for the first stage ignition by 132' on the comparator; at first glance, I believe they should have fired. The second set of airstarts did fall short of the comparator value due to the lack of firing of the first airstarts...based upon the parameters, the second set performed as I'd expect. Falling just shy of the comparator value on the second set, the vehicle would have easily cleared the requisite altitude for 2nd set airstarts had the 1st set lit.

The downloaded flight data in the Missileworks program clearly calls out the Apogee and Main events, but no text at 2.5s and 5.0s where airstart events were to occur.

I'm guessing that it is a programming error I made, but I haven't found it yet. The frustrating part for me is that I have successfully used timers (and even thermalite) reliably for years without incident. Since the modern crowd frowns upon standard timers without lockout capabilities, I tried to go with a "safer" solution, which unfortunately failed me, much unlike the timers that have never let me down. Flight was good, just such a let down when you spend all the prep time for airstart events and then they don't go. Arggghh!

-Eric-

-Eric-

patelldp · Jun 6, 2017

ECayemberg said:
The now standard orange lead ematches...I could not tell you the exact source, I usually buy 100+ at a time. I've done some diagnostics, still don't have a clear answer. The altimeters definitely had enough juice; the airstart igniters were the exact same matches used for the ejection charges, and all 6 e-charges fired, none of the 4 airstart matched did however. Uploaded the flight data, the minimum altitude was met for the first stage ignition by 132' on the comparator; at first glance, I believe they should have fired. The second set of airstarts did fall short of the comparator value due to the lack of firing of the first airstarts...based upon the parameters, the second set performed as I'd expect. Falling just shy of the comparator value on the second set, the vehicle would have easily cleared the requisite altitude for 2nd set airstarts had the 1st set lit.

The downloaded flight data in the Missileworks program clearly calls out the Apogee and Main events, but no text at 2.5s and 5.0s where airstart events were to occur.

I'm guessing that it is a programming error I made, but I haven't found it yet. The frustrating part for me is that I have successfully used timers (and even thermalite) reliably for years without incident. Since the modern crowd frowns upon standard timers without lockout capabilities, I tried to go with a "safer" solution, which unfortunately failed me, much unlike the timers that have never let me down. Flight was good, just such a let down when you spend all the prep time for airstart events and then they don't go. Arggghh!

-Eric-

-Eric-

Not to be a fear mongerer but at the last URRG launch both Dave McCann and I had faulty matches. My bad match didn't have continuity, his was reporting continuity but failed to fire. Ground test after the flight with a 9V did not fire.

I have since modified my 3.72" Proteus to fly redundant altimeter and matches. I typically do that, but now I feel the need to more than ever.

djs · Jun 6, 2017

ECayemberg said:
Flight was good, just such a let down when you spend all the prep time for airstart events and then they don't go.

Clearly the answer to this is to fly it again at the July 8 launch

ECayemberg · Jun 6, 2017

So cool to have Ron and other here...thanks all for the participation!!! Mega appreciate it! :cheers:

Glen posted a neat deployment shot of the Eso just blooming the main. It was admittedly weird having an apogee of 1600' and watching the main deploy only 600' and a few seconds after drogue deployment. It's a blessing that Mr. Harnack takes and shares his photos...they are SOOOO much better than anything I can take!

Alas, I did take a few. And here they are!

CTI K1440 White Thunder boost!

Chute!

Descending into the Devil trees! I'm still bleeding...

Which reminds me...I need to thank several people. Thanks Jay, Sam and friends for help getting the beast out of thorny death! Thanks Andy, Frank, Jay for help at the pad! Thanks Tom, Brandon, Cody, Dave for help in the pits! Thanks Frank, Bob, Dan, Carol, Peggy, Randy for running the TWA launch despite all that pesky rainfall! Thanks all for your help; can't wait to gather again for a launch with full airstarts!

PS, in case you missed it, Glen posted a link to these photos: All credit to Mr. Kevin Harnack....thanks Kevin!!!

-Eric-

ECayemberg · Jun 6, 2017

patelldp said:
Not to be a fear mongerer but at the last URRG launch both Dave McCann and I had faulty matches. My bad match didn't have continuity, his was reporting continuity but failed to fire. Ground test after the flight with a 9V did not fire.

I have since modified my 3.72" Proteus to fly redundant altimeter and matches. I typically do that, but now I feel the need to more than ever.

Except I had 10 identical matches on this flight. 6 out of 6 for the deployment charges fired. 0 of the 4 for the airstarts fired. Both "main" charges fired successfully AFTER the airstart matched failed to fire. I believe the programming must've been goofed up, I just don't know how yet.

ECayemberg · Jun 6, 2017

djs said:
Clearly the answer to this is to fly it again at the July 8 launch

Yep, I'm in! I have three more K1440's ready and willing. And some K2050's. And some old AMW 2550 loads. Hmmm:cyclops::dark:

marcusSRG · Jul 12, 2017

I gotta know Have you been able to airstart it yet?!?

ECayemberg · Jul 12, 2017

marcusSRG said:
I gotta know… Have you been able to airstart it yet?!?

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for checking in!!! I didn't try it again yet; my boys and I camped out at Bong for the launch last weekend. Camping gear + rocket gear = not enough room in the truck for the ginormo Esoteric. I have commitments for the next two local launches; a retry will likely have to wait until Midwest Power. BUT, I think you'll like the lineup I have set for Midwest Power...you should take a road trip and we could have a Retro Reunion!

-Eric-

djs · Jul 12, 2017

ECayemberg said:
Camping gear + rocket gear = not enough room in the truck for the ginormo Esoteric.

You know, you could've just thrown a tarp over the Esoteric and made that your tent?

Loc Esoteric & Top Gunn: Dinosaur builds!

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