Questions on advancement.

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Vethen

Rocketry Obsessed
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I know I'm in the beginning stages of my life in rocketry, and am willing to put in the appropriate time to learn what I must before moving to the next stage. Having worked with a few low skin level kits, I've gotten a good ground for my building knowledge. I plan to join both NAR and my local club to meet with fellow rocket enthusiasts.

In the mean time between this moment and the next club launch, I was wonder what you would suggest as the next build to further my skill. I'm aiming to get into HPR and get certified in the future. Scale rockets are interesting, but I fear my ability to shape paper in such small detail will be weak.

Currently I have these basics down;
level 1-2 kits
basic motor mounts
attaching fins (through body and exterior mounting)
wood glue fillets
LPR style elastic shock cords
Finishing the exterior of a rocket

In the interest of progressing towards my goal, do any experienced rocketeers know which kit would have valuable skills to move up into MPR?

ps: also you do not need to worry about certification for MPR correct? Until I attempt to fly a rocket exceeding the regulations that declare what is a HPR I'm free to fly (in a proper manner) anything else? Obviously nothing illegal though.

Thank you you everyone for your time! :D I'm looking forward to improving in this exciting hobby!
 
All of the skills you demonstrate/list are enough to build a MPR kit and do a good job of it.

The QCC Explorer is definitely a good advanced LPR kit . But any of the Estes current PSII line would be good too, namely the Leviathan, Argent, Ventris, Partizon, Sahara, Panavia, Nike Smoke, Mega Der Red Max. All these kits are easily modded from E-G impulse motors MPR (by removing the engine block ring from the MMT so longer motors fit) to L1 HPR (H-I impulse, and some G motors). Simply following the directions and adding a few techniques like internal filleting, recovery harnesses instead of underwear elastic (leave that stuff in the undies), and better shock cord mounts any of the PSII kits can be perfect for L1 cert flights as many have discovered. As for reading material pick up a copy of Modern High Power Rocketry 2 by Mark Canepa it will tell you everything you might want to know, or at least get you asking the right questions. The most important things you can do are become a member of NAR and find and fly with a local club, the fliers there will be more than happy to share their experience, skills, theories with you (just like TRF only personally).

FYI the PSII kits are a steal right now on the Estes webpage under the specials/sale. The PSII's with the exception of the Star Orbiter (not yet available) will require MPR motors.

The new Star Orbiter PSII might not be well suited to HPR conversion as its BT60 based, but as its not released yet who knows, odds are when its out I will buy one and try flying it HPR at least once.
 
I'll second that recommendation. If my memory serves, the instructions tell you to use CA (super glue) to build the intakes, I decided to be patient and use wood glue and this thing can really take a beating. I also recommend the Porta-Pad and E motors if you have a big enough field. It does OK on the C11 and I live with the D12 at my local park but I really like the E9 when I have a little more room.
 
Thank you for the quick and helpful replies! I've eyed the QCC for a while now, and will make one for sure (if not just to have in the collection). Is there anything special about the QCC to learn? It doesn't have a very good recovery system, which makes sense since most everyone modifies it.
 
The only changes that I made to mine was to make the tube coupler into a baffle with a small eye bolt for a wire fishing leader. I also swapped sewing elastic for the shock cord. The chute is stock and has done well for me.

Construction of this kit is not complicated. Since I chose to use wood glue for everything, I built the intakes assembly line style. By the time I finished step one on the fourth intake, number one was ready for the next; it worked well for me. The build has you expanding basic building skills and gives you one or two new challenges. I really enjoyed the build.
 
You all are awesome! I've wanted to build a QCC and just might have to! :cool: .. who could resist that Estes psii sale.. Might be time to stock up on a few rockets!

I assume there are probably threads here on internal fillets?
 
Get "Modern High Powered Rocketry 2" and read it.
I Know it's not as much fun as a build and doesn't fly very high.

It will, however, go a long way on training your brain for high powered rockets.
 
You all are awesome! I've wanted to build a QCC and just might have to! :cool: .. who could resist that Estes psii sale.. Might be time to stock up on a few rockets!

I assume there are probably threads here on internal fillets?

Several, and different ways of doing them. There is also a method called fin pockets that can be used to alleviate having to reach into the tube to do internal fillets (it uses a balsa dam on each side of where the fin will sit, the MMT is slid into place and glued, then the pockets created by the dams is filled with enough epoxy/glue to totally fill the pocket when the fin is place into the slot).

You can also use the double buttering technique that Blackjack2564 aka CrazyJim likes to use, put a bead of glue on the fin edge, insert into slot, press lightly, pull fin back out, re-apply glue and put back into slot, this forms a small, fillet on the motor tube and gives a nice strong bond, on most MPRs and L1 HPRs no other filleting internal is really needed, just do the external fillets and you are done.
 
Vethen, when you join the NAR, check out the NARTREK Skills Program. I think it would present you with some good challenges.

Another place to look for kits that will hone your skills is Fliskits. Lots of interesting designs.

Stepping up to MPR is nice but there are other things to do than just go bigger.
 
I have a good time slot in my day for reading through this literature, and will begin looking for it. I really enjoy having one complex toy rather than lots of little basic ones. I just wanted to point out that I'm not in it for the bigger is better factor. I have plenty of time to move up later in life!
 
Ken's right, there's lots to do in LPR if that's where you want to be. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I enjoy HPR in the bigger is better route, but that's my thing.
Fliskits makes the decim8 and alien8 which are probably 2 of the most difficult non-scale rockets out there. LPR rockets let you do all manner of things that HPR won't.
 
Fliskits definitely has some kits that will expand your skills. I am waiting on a Deuce and a Tres to arrive, looked like a good way to try out clusters.

I am quite happy these days staying in LPR and MPR. There are so many interesting kits out there that I will always have something new to build. I have come across plans for long OOP kits that I hope to build one day and ideas for scratch builds seem to haunt me some times. Have fun with the "little" kits and don't feel that there is a need to move up until you start to feel the itch to move up. As long as you are having fun, you are right where you need to be.
 
Wow,,
This is what I love most about this forum...
The warm welcome a new person gets...
well,, here's a super warm welcome to the forum from me as well....
You sure did come to the right place to learn about rockets,,
that's for sure. ... lol....

Teddy

Oh yeah,,,
And the guys are certainly right...
Get rid of the underwear elastic shock cords and get a harness,,,
you'll be glad you did. ....
 
There is no wrong answer here, everyone has their own path they follow. There are people who like building more then flying and some who like it the other way around. You sound like a builder, so that's why I recommended the QCC Explorer.
Sure you could build easy peasy PS11 kits, I think you'll be board with them as a builder. There are so many LPR kits out there that will challenge your skills as a builder. Also NAR contests are a challenge within them selves.

Just remember if your not having FUN, we'll take your glue bottle away from you!! :wink:
 
You guys are too much! Haha. I certainly do enjoy building! But I also get that tingly feeling from a massive rocket :D

more to launch more to love, right?
 
Best advice I can give is to not rush. So many are in such a hurry to build bigger/better/faster/higher. Take your time and enjoy your education. Spend some time with more complex skill level 2 kits, and do some level 3 kits, and continue to get better. Talk to the guys at your club. When you're ready, look at Mid power. There is a world of complexity in each level. Start looking into other kit manufacturers - Fliskits and Semroc have some gloriously complex kits. Just take time to learn as much as you can. Don't be afraid to ask questions here and at launches. Rocketeers are unique in that we all want to help each other as much as we can...

SOme of my favorite more complex kits:
https://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-3/002425-super-neon-xltm
https://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-2/02162-big-daddytm
https://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-2/003026-photon-probe
https://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/kits/skill-2/003207-crossbow-ssttm
https://www.erockets.biz/semroc-flying-model-rocket-kit-orbital-transport-kv-66/
https://www.erockets.biz/fliskits-flying-model-rocket-kit-praetor-sp001/

Look in to some multi-stage kits. Scale kits to test your attention to detail. Most of all, do what feels fun to you.
 
It took me years, but now I know what is too big.

Darn 540 pound rockets...
 
Too big? Sounds like someone has learned some things the hard way!
 
It took me years, but now I know what is too big.

Darn 540 pound rockets...

Mine may not be 540 pounds, but it sure is fat :)

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1453885183.988194.jpg

Welcome to the forum! Lots to learn here. Chances are, without being here I likely wouldn't be tackling the above project. It's just in mock up stage right now, but certainly the largest scratch built I've made.

A lot of opinions and good advice here. Though the 'search' is an excellent feature, don't be afraid to ask questions. We all had to start somewhere!


As far as 'expanding your knowledge', I have a couple of the Mini Series rockets from Wildman.

Though a little different than cardboard, building a fiberglass rocket is along the same principles, just using epoxy instead of wood glue. I like launching my WildChild on 24mm E18's, but if I wanted to get nuts, it's a 29mm hole! It's built light, but it's still a tank, very stout. Fun little rocket!
 
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Everyone has their own path..
+1 for read "Modern High Powered Rocketry 2"
+1 for joining the local club, that is where you can enjoy other people spending money on propellant! and you can learn from them as well.
+1 watch John Coker's videos

I am a huge fiberglass rocket fan now. They can take a betting better than cardboard kits.
You can find alot of affordable kits out there, and some great build threads out here as well.
Work slow in to the spending of money so you don't freak your wife out.
I still have a hard time explaining the cost of a M motor to my wife.

my level 1, I went low and slow. my level 2 took 5 times to get it right. tried low and slow, messed up the delay charge and all most yard darted it but zipped the tube up to the motor mount. Then I just fixed that one and tried punching it as hard as a I could, popped the main at the top every time. Then everything worked out good the fifth time with a third rocket and I had a great flight and recovery.

Also for tracking and recovery. I have been using Big Red Bee beacons and ham radio fox hunting skills to track them down. I just upgrade to the 70cm GPS ARPS system which is going to make life alot easier I hope.

Good luck on your adventure!
 
I've had to haul most of it out of my basement, three times so far. The fin can lower section gets to stay in the garage because it doesn't fit thru the door. It's a hernia just waiting to happen.

But, I've been a L3 for some time.

anyhow, start slow, work your way up to the end of your comfort zone. Bigger stuff is more fun with friends. Neil Brown and I can be just about inseparable at URRF/LDRS or even RG He's a great guy and I'll help shelp his stuff any day. And he promised to help shelp my mega.

Funny thing is that the rocket I fly the most is my wildman Jr.
 
Asking questions is a great start! Keep it up! I am amazed at the knowledge of the members of my club and the posters in this forum.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of Model Rocketry!

I am on the same "path" that you are but probably slower since I haven't had a chance to "build" much but my "build pile" is approaching small hill status! *LOL*

I would recommend the following resources/sites:

"The Rocket N00b" blog at: https://rocketn00b.blogspot.com/ (LOTS of good info no matter how far along you are)
Chris Michaelson's blog at: https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/ (EXCELLENT builds!)
I would also recommend the "NARTEK" skills program as mentioned by "KennB" above

Reading this forum hasn't been mentioned (that I have seen) yet but this is an EXCELLENT resource of knowledge and advice!

Welcome!
 
I'm surprised I didn't see anything about downloading openrocket above.

I certainly don't know everything. I actually ask for tons of advice on the forum.

I was in your shoes a couple months ago when I figured out how to download open rocket. I bought a set of tubes, nose cones, Kevlar, casing and a motor off the net. Picked up balsa from local stores and began designin MPR on OR.

Can't say my first attempt went well. But I learned a TON. The second was much better and learned even more.

I haven't bought one mid power kit. Probably will save the money for an L1/L2 kit.

I guess is what I am saying is if you enjoy designing your own to watch it come to life, it certainly is a viable route with a big learning curve.

Make your own kit.

Just my experience transitioning.
 
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