I.D.S.S. - My BALLS 26? Project

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Aksrockets

Now with 8% more aluminum
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
3,505
Reaction score
14
Last edited:
Hey Alex - great to hear from you! I too, have found myself not posting as much these days. And of course, some folks have just flat-out left altogether as you know...

For starters, I assume you mean BALLS 25 if you're talking about this year's launch? :) Will need to get the story on the name sometime, too...
"Develop a reliable way to cast 15+ lb of propellant at once." = my solution would be to buy a 20 qt. mixer! Haha.

Anyways, look forward to seeing this build. Coincidentally, just this afternoon I was looking through some sketches of my BALLS project! Should be a most excellent time, as always.

Are you headed to Aeronaut again this year?
 
I'll be watching. Always interesting to watch your builds.

Nate
 
Nice!

How are you planning make the finocyl core? With a styrofoam mandrel dissolved out with acetone?

Also, anyone have any information on BALLS 25? I've never been to BALLS, and would like to possible make the trip. Any information would be appreciated!

Will be following...
 
I am probably not going to make it, but who knows. If I do my tentative plan is for a Punisher 4 on M840 or even M2245.

If not, maybe I can still rock one of those bad boy motors at XPRS!
 
Yep - balls25.com. Don't know of many TRA Gerlach members that post here besides Mark Clark...

I believe you are correct for people who post regularly. There are a couple others who rarely post.
Website has all the info.
One thing to know if you plan on launching is there is a impulse low limit of K for commercial motors.

M
 
Thanks all. Always have trouble finding the site... although I may have looked a little too early and it wasn't up yet haha.
 
And not to derail this thread, but does anyone know the waiver at BALLS? I know it's high, but I'm just curious how high haha.
 
Technically it is a TFR.
If we activate the highest it is 493,000 feet. The FAA does not Have control above that.
Since the lowest altitude we get is 100,000 feet upping the alt has no effect on planes going over, what happens is the radius increases.

M
 
Hey Alex - great to hear from you! I too, have found myself not posting as much these days. And of course, some folks have just flat-out left altogether as you know...

For starters, I assume you mean BALLS 25 if you're talking about this year's launch? :) Will need to get the story on the name sometime, too...
"Develop a reliable way to cast 15+ lb of propellant at once." = my solution would be to buy a 20 qt. mixer! Haha.

Anyways, look forward to seeing this build. Coincidentally, just this afternoon I was looking through some sketches of my BALLS project! Should be a most excellent time, as always.

Are you headed to Aeronaut again this year?
Yeah, good catch. BALLS 25.
Probably going to skip Aeronaut in place of Hellfire. What are you making for BALLS?
Nice!

How are you planning make the finocyl core? With a styrofoam mandrel dissolved out with acetone?
That's how I'm planning on doing it.

Alex
 
And not to derail this thread, but does anyone know the waiver at BALLS? I know it's high, but I'm just curious how high haha.
Judging by the name of the rocket, the waiver at BALLS isn't gonna be the only thing that's high :wink:

And Alex, this seems like a pretty solid design and I say that about the rocket and the motor. I love seeing these high performance builds, they really are fascinating and I'm glad we'll get the chance to see another one of your builds. :)

Are you going to be using a Com Spec for tracking?
 
I had a *boring* morning in the Machine shop.

I got the forward closure finished.

12919479_924468247666395_524006110_o.jpg

Details in the Google Doc!

Alex
 
your design could use a parachute .. unless recovery isn't in the plan :)
 
Cool project Casper; my "thoughts," is your mass flux is slightly high. Usually you want to keep the mass flux around 2 to prevent pressure spikes due to erosive burning. Is that something you are not concerned with, because I know you mentioned in your write up that it will already be an erosive motor?

My other thought was about your aft pin ring; now I know you said it is still TBD. In the drawing you have it shown with a graphite throat inserted into the aluminum nozzle carrier (which appears to also be the rear pin ring). The aluminum pin ring holds the nozzle throat and extends the exit cone, thus the exhaust is directly hitting your pin ring and the heat from the graphite is being transferred to the Aluminum. The aluminum carrier/pin ring will erode and I would be concerned with the heating weaken the load the pin ring structure can tolerate. It can be done but it also can be a problem, I would definitely take into account the elevated temperature when running your calculations.

Good luck mate!

your design could use a parachute .. unless recovery isn't in the plan :)

:facepalm: "The parachute rests in the nose cone," that's a quote from his write up. Also you can see in the OR file that there is a mass object...
 
Last edited:
Will the fin can be single use, or hope to reuse?
Because I still haven't finalized the design, Im not sure. The ablative will have to be sanded down and reapplied for sure, but the leading edges are where most of the damage will be. I've been contemplating using sheet metal strips to prevent edge damage. I tried this on my "playin' with fire" a few years ago but failed to produce a strip with a consistent bend angle I was happy with. I've had an idea kicking around for a jig designed just for bending sheet metal to the angle of my bevel. I'm not sure if I'll actually get around to making it.


Cool project Casper; my "thoughts," is your mass flux is slightly high. Usually you want to keep the mass flux around 2 to prevent pressure spikes due to erosive burning. Is that something you are not concerned with, because I know you mentioned in your write up that it will already be an erosive motor?

My other thought was about your aft pin ring; now I know you said it is still TBD. In the drawing you have it shown with a graphite throat inserted into the aluminum nozzle carrier (which appears to also be the rear pin ring). The aluminum pin ring holds the nozzle throat and extends the exit cone, thus the exhaust is directly hitting your pin ring and the heat from the graphite is being transferred to the Aluminum. The aluminum carrier/pin ring will erode and I would be concerned with the heating weaken the load the pin ring structure can tolerate. It can be done but it also can be a problem, I would definitely take into account the elevated temperature when running your calculations.

Good luck mate!

Thanks mat,
Yeah, I'll probably taper the finocyl at the end to get my mass flux down. I'm doing a styrofoam mandrel, so I'm not really limited by a complex core shape.

The nozzle/Carrier I'll definitely redesign.
 
can you stuff a chute in that little space in the nose?
Sure can. I did it on my project 2 years ago.

Just laid up the fincan tube. This build will get moving pretty quick. I just need to head to the shop to machine the fins and I'll start throwing stuff together.
13101005_943761672403719_515029140_n.jpg

Alex
 
Hello Alex,
I have not been participating for about a year. I am back. I am also subscribing to your thread. N motors. Moving up in the world. I am still looking at making Level 2.

Tom
 
Yes, I'm ripping off the Honey Badger fins. I wont pretend this is an original design or concept. Credit for this goes to Ryan and David, who's build you can see here.

I contemplated several different ways of making fins. I did a few experiments with bending sheet metal but was unable to achieve consistent results. There have been few composite fin cans that have survived upper M3 flights, so there isn't a lot of examples of solutions to the aerodynamic heating problems. I settled for the honey badger design because A: it has been previously successful; B: because its relatively inexpensive and C: I was confident I could replicate it with my table saw. I bought a 3/16in sheet of LE Phenolic from McMaster-Carr for the leading edges and a sheet of 1/16in G10/FR4 for the fin core.

I put my circ saw blade on the table saw because I knew it had a 1/16in kerf. I enjoy having all 10 fingers, so I wanted to avoid a setup that would keep my fingers well away from the blade (Im talking to YOU Manny and Steve). The jig I made was essentially a track I could clamp the phenolic to that would slide along the table saw fence. That way I could just push the sled and not get near the blade at all.
Here's a photo of my jig on the table saw.
13275125_958404944272725_991304742_o.jpg

Here's a different angle where the cutting occurs.
13262342_958405014272718_134082939_o.jpg

After cutting a slot I took the plate over to the bandsaw to cut the strip out.
13271424_958404884272731_387322125_o.jpg

They came out pretty good if I do say so myself.
13262651_958404907606062_1212776898_o.jpg
13271825_958404697606083_1165263732_o.jpg

I cut out the 1/16 G10 cores with a jigsaw. No pics of that because that isn't interesting at all.

Here you can see the separate G10 and Phenolic pieces that make up each fin.
13271854_958404680939418_1937552988_o.jpg

Ready to bond them.
13262240_958404674272752_161809315_o.jpg

After setting the core into the leading edge, I placed 2 1/32in spacers on each side of the fin. This was to ensure that the core was perfectly parallel with the leading edge. 13288798_958404654272754_1143853117_o.jpg

I then set a sheet of fiberboard on them with a few pounds of lathe stock on top of it. This is just to add pressure and make sure everything comes out flat.
13288200_958404634272756_1653104304_o.jpg

Here's a finished fin. I cut the excess strip off with the bandsaw and sanded it flat with the belt sander.
13275580_958404630939423_1361890271_o.jpg

I'm happy with how these have turned out so far. Next up is reinforcing them with a few layers of CF.

Maybe if I had more time I'd like to explore different ways of making fins, but I'm working 40 hours a week and taking a condensed chem class, time isn't something I have a lot of. I'd like to do some research on metallic edge strips or efficient metal fin cans, but now just isn't the time.

Thanks for following,
Casper
 
The fins look great! If I read correctly, the next step is to fill the void with carbon fiber and then bevel?
 
The fins look great! If I read correctly, the next step is to fill the void with carbon fiber and then bevel?
Yep.

I added 2 layers of carbon to each side of the fin. Then vacuum bagged with a foodsaver. BTW, foodsavers are the way to go as far as vacuum bagging 2D objects.

13288095_960386297407923_1918593624_o.jpg
Before.

13288143_960386314074588_2136387961_o.jpg
After.

13282670_960537420726144_751257264_o.jpg

13313523_960537427392810_1922080995_o.jpg
Looks good.

Alex
 
Very Cool so far......... Always a pleasure to read and follow people with so much experience and knowledge.
I hope to get to play with my LVL 1 Cert more often and start a LVL 2 project.
Your post is inspiring Thanks
 
Back
Top