24mm MD 10,000 ft and Mach 1.6 on a CTI G150

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TRFfan

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Hi everyone,

After spending months on TRF watching build threads, I wanted to do one of my own. Since I'm not L1 certified and wanted to use the largest possible motor size in the given diameter, I decided to go with the CTI 24 mm G motors and build a MD. I didn't really want to spend a lot of money on CF/fiberglass tubing, fins, and nose cones, so I opted to do a scratch build using estes 24 mm tubing with the 24 mm nose cones and some 1/16 aircraft grade plywood. All in all, I don't really care if this rocket shreds or is lost (which will probaly happen) because this build is more of a test of my build skills more than anything else. However, I do intend to give this rocket the best possible chance of surviving.

Technical Details

Ok, now to explain the technical details of my rocket. The rocket uses a 110 mm estes athena NC with a 18 mm shoulder. The wall thickness is around 2-3 mm, so there should be ample space for me to store a streamer, altimeter, shock cord, and some wadding along with ~70 grams of tungsten powder mixed with epoxy. The shock cord attachment will be sawed off and a large slit will be made in the NC to allow the attachment of the shock cord to the BT. The motor casing will be butted of against the NC plastic shoulder, which I think should be strong enough to hold up against the force of the motor. Also, to help strengthen the BT, thin CA was dripped along the length of the tube to help make it more rigid and fireproof.

The plywood fins haven't been cut yet, and since my cutting skills aren't good enough to make a good, clean cut right on the line, I've decided to use a different approach. I'll print the fin templates from OR, use elmer's glue to stick them to the plywood sheet, then water them down with thin CA to prevent them from coming off the sheet. After I've done that, I'll sand them down until they've reached the fin lines, and then I'll stack sand them to equal sizes. I'll then take them to get beveled, and then I'll sand the paper off and airfoil them. They'll be tacked onto the BT with CA and filleted with JB weld.
 
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You can substantially increase the rigidity of the body tube by drizzling super thin CA down into it on the inside before beginning, but make sure you do this outside with nothing you care about like children or pets underneath where the excess will run out the other side.
Also take the standard precautions like gloves and eye protection, as the fumes coming out of the tube will be intense.
A wrap of 110# cardstock on the area say 3-4" immediately forward of the Fins will also help to keep the BT from buckling under the initial impulse.

Good luck with your build and keep us updated!

TR
 
Ok everyone, I was hoping someone would help me to overcome this technical problem that has arose. According to OR, the optimum delay is 19 seconds but the motor I'm planning to use (G150) only has a 12 second delay. So if anyone could help me with this problem it would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I was wondering if anyone knew some good wadding for me to use. The only one that I've used so far is the estes one, and I don't think that it will be sufficient for a G motor.
 
Ok everyone, I was hoping someone would help me to overcome this technical problem that has arose. According to OR, the optimum delay is 19 seconds but the motor I'm planning to use (G150) only has a 12 second delay. So if anyone could help me with this problem it would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I was wondering if anyone knew some good wadding for me to use. The only one that I've used so far is the estes one, and I don't think that it will be sufficient for a G motor.

I would remove the powder, stick an RRC2 or SCF into the nose cone, and run an igniter back down until nearly the motor. With only one charge you can reuse the powder from the motor. You will need a small sampling hole too, and obviously a small battery.

Estes wadding will be fine.
 
The Cellulose Insulation (dog barf) you can get at most home improvement stores is the only wadding used by the club I fly with. It provides excellent thermal protection [video=youtube;lAPPn53JtHQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPPn53JtHQ[/video]
, is biodegradable, and relatively inexpensive (though you usually have to buy it in bulk, https://www.greenfiber.com/products.html ).
If your concerned about possible gaps that ejection charge gases could seep through, you could still use a sheet or two of standard Estes type wadding in addition to the dog barf, though it really isn't needed.

Hope all goes well.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! I was also wondering how many estes wadding sheets would be sufficient for a G motor.
 
Ok everyone, I was hoping someone would help me to overcome this technical problem that has arose. According to OR, the optimum delay is 19 seconds but the motor I'm planning to use (G150) only has a 12 second delay. So if anyone could help me with this problem it would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I was wondering if anyone knew some good wadding for me to use. The only one that I've used so far is the estes one, and I don't think that it will be sufficient for a G motor.

FYI a G150 is a L1 motor as it has more than 80 newtons of average thrust.
 
Couple of thoughts...... You would be much better off attaching the fins with epoxy, and doing the fillets with epoxy. Lighter and stronger. JB weld does not bond well with wood and cardboard, you need something thinner that will penetrate the surfaces some. Also, have you considered how high this thing is gonna go? For any reasonable chance of recovery, your probably going to need a tracker. Plus the need for electronic deployment due to your delay needs, your going to need to put in an av bay. All that just won't fit into the nosecone.
Good luck with this, keep us posted. I'd like to see how you get around the deployment problems!
 
BTW, I did hear once of a competition rocketry team that extended the delay of a 13mm black powder motor with a fuse that was lit by the ejection charge that then lit a second ejection charge. I did not see this with my own eye's, I'm just mentioning it here for food for thought.
 
I've already cut the BT but I suppose I could always buy another pack. Maybe I should buy some couplers and use them to reinforce the forward end of the BT with it? And also I could use one coupler as an av-bay to put the altimeter and tracker in it.
 
I've already cut the BT but I suppose I could always buy another pack. Maybe I should buy some couplers and use them to reinforce the forward end of the BT with it? And also I could use one coupler as an av-bay to put the altimeter and tracker in it.

That sounds like a good idea.

It is tough to get to the content with a page full of statistics per post.
 
Ok everyone, I've decided to change my build plan to what was listed above, namely reinforcing the BT with couplers. However, the hobby shop is out of BTs and couplers, so this build will probably be on hold for a few weeks.
 
Couple of thoughts...... You would be much better off attaching the fins with epoxy, and doing the fillets with epoxy. Lighter and stronger. JB weld does not bond well with wood and cardboard, you need something thinner that will penetrate the surfaces some.

I have some 5 minute epoxy, so could I use that?

Also, have you considered how high this thing is gonna go? For any reasonable chance of recovery, your probably going to need a tracker. Plus the need for electronic deployment due to your delay needs, your going to need to put in an av bay. All that just won't fit into the nosecone.Good luck with this, keep us posted. I'd like to see how you get around the deployment problems!

I'm planning to reinforce the BT with couplers (see below) so I could use one coupler as an av-bay.

BTW, The current OR sim says the rocket will get 10,500 ft of altitude.
 
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Ok everyone, I've got a problem. Estes doesn't sell BT-50 couplers so I won't be able to use them on the rocket.


Anyway, the hobby store has more BT-50 tubing in stock so I'll go pick it up tomorrow. I'll also try to get the fins done then.


BTW, I can't attach my ork file. I get a red exclamation mark whenever I try to upload it.
 
Ok thanks. I didn't find that on the website so I assumed that there was no BT-50 couplers for sale. Anyway, they're out of stock at the Hobby shop and it should come in within a week or two.
 
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Yeah, the fins are (hopefully) going to be cut on friday. I haven't got around to it since things got in the way, and since I'm free then, I can get it done.

BTW, I think I will go for the CAR G motor record, so how do I do this? Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Ok, judging from the CAR information, I'll (hopefully) be able to beat this record, assuming that nothing goes wrong.
 
Could you cut and style the fins after the athena as well? Also what is the tungsten powder for?

Tungsten powder is the newer, safer (ie nontoxic) version of lead, used for nose weight..

I did a little digging here to double check I was correct, and found some good examples. Apparently it's mixed in with epoxy, but if you care to know more, 'Search' is your friend :)
 
How do you plan on finding the rocket? You WILL lose sight of this rocket as it goes up. So you might lose the rocket and any hardware you put in it.
 
To prove the record was broken you'll need some sort of measuring device. Probably best to kill two birds with one stone and get a gps/altimeter in one. Also lighter than two separate electronic divides, install them into the NC.
 
If you are going for an official record, make sure your altimeter is CAR-certified.
 
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