5.5" Cherokee-D L3 build thread for rharshberger

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First two centering rings are attached, laminating epoxy was used for the initial tack. The epoxy is first brushed onto the cardboard in a heavy layer then allowed to soak in a bit, a bit more is added and the CR is twisted back and forth into place in an attempt to make sure epoxy makes it into the joint between the wood and cardboard. Once the fin pockets go into place I will fillet the rings with structural epoxy (System3 T-88). The blue tape is to keep any residual epoxy from gluing the coupler for the zipperless to the CR, and the craft sticks are just to maintain alignment so everything remains square between the rings and tube. Just realized I forgot to weigh the mmt tube and rings after slotting.

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Got home a bit early due to being in training for most of the day. Soooo...I took the time to get some building done.

The CR was drilled for the threaded inserts last night, in order to make sure they are not cocked I will epoxy them in place with JB Weld (already done but not visible in second photo). Fins are tabbed and notched ready for installation. Fins dry fitted and zipper-less mocked up. The fin slots took about 10 mins or less to cut with my Dremel no.543 Carbide Cutting/Sanding disk (it zips through FG, CF, and cardboard), then the slots touched up with a Great Planes easy sander to nock off the tight spots. The fin guide pictured is from PayloadBay Rocketry Tools https://www.payloadbay.com/index.php?page=Tools&action=FINGUIDES the PDF is download, printed and glued to the 1/4" Foamboard with 3M 77 spray adhesive. Tomorrow I hopefully will have time to add the fin pockets to the MMT and the blocks for the rail buttons screw inserts to mount into, and Thursday actually put the booster section together, I actually feel like I am making progress now. I still need to round the fin edges, hopefully I don't forget.



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And for fun, a full dry fit with my mini-crew (my two oldest kids).....

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The picture below is my favorite cutting and shaping tool for most things FG, CF and cardboard in rocketry, it cuts through the airframes like butter.
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Hey that's a great shot with the kids Rich...
That's really cool...

I love that bit too...

Teddy
 
Very impressive, I'm referring to the amount of progress you are making with all the little ones around! Man how do you do that!
 
Very impressive, I'm referring to the amount of progress you are making with all the little ones around! Man how do you do that!

Scheduling, or after they go to bed,it also helps my job is a 4 tens schedule Mon-Thurs unless I am offered overtime. Still sometimes its hard to find build time for the more time intensive parts like layups on cutting parts.
 
Got a bit more done this evening, hopefully by the weekend the booster will be fully assembled and ready for the minor fitting parts. These are the fin pockets I have mentioned before, they are quick to make, the additional fillets I added probably are not necessary but they make me feel better seeing them. On a L1 or 2 rocket the addtional fillets would not be needed for sure. The holes with the green clay in them are the threaded inserts for the AeroPack 98 (which will not be making an appearance in time for the flight). The fillets are US Composites 635 Med cure with milled fiberglass and cabosil to thicken to a peanut butter consistency (mostly its milled fiber). The fillets took about 70 grams of epoxy plus the additives. The top of the upper CR is where the zipperless coupler butts against, so just prior to insertion of the coupler into the booster airframe I will pour some epoxy onto the top of it and slide the coupler into place, using enough epoxy to give at least 3/16"-1/4" deep between the motor tube and the coupler. Tomorrow I have to round the fin edges and then insert the mmt into the airframe and epoxy, Friday should be inserting the fins into the pockets along with the System 3 T-88 Aircraft Structural Epoxy (its now offered in a u-TAH tube with mixing tip. For those unaware of what a u-TAH tube is, its looks like a standard caulking gun cartridge, but it acts like a twin plunger epoxy gun, the tip (it can be used without the mixing tip) dispenses both parts through separate ports, no expensive dual plunger dispensing guns needed.

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Two of the fins are epoxied in and the third will be done about midnight, the epoxy requires about 2-3 hours to gel sufficiently enough that I am comfortable rolling the airframe to do the next fin since I am using no thickeners or milled fibers. The epoxy is System 3 T-88 Aircraft Structural epoxy, which is about the consistency of honey. So far everything goes together tight and straight. Not shown is the 98 to 75mm motor adapter that I have been working on as well.

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Rich,,
That thing is going to be so solid you won't need a motor case...
Just pack the propellant directly into the motor tube and light it...
Seriously though,,,
Just about the nicest,, coolest,, most meticulous builds I've ever seen...
I forget who the builder / flyer was..
But last year a new term was coined for a build like this,,
"Hand Made"...
This goes beyond scratch,, lol..
Just gorgeous man...

Teddy
 
Thanks Teddy, making as many of the parts as possible is part of the fun. I have nothing against kits, but learning the techniques of the construction methods I am using is part of the fun too! Now if I just had unlimited money to build as many rockets as I want.

Normally my wife would make my parachutes for me, however ECayemberg's spring cleaning sale netted me a Cert3 Large chute at less than the materials to make my own.
 
The forward coupler CR and and booster shock cord attachments are epoxied in place that is the last major piece to be put in place (no photo as its upside down on the workbench at the moment). I was also able to get the 98mm to 75mm motor adapter/retainer made today, shown in the pictures below using a borrowed AT 75/2560 motor. The tube with the Centering rings can be either friction fitted ( not a fan) or a simple radiator clamp can be used to snug it to the motor casing. The motor retainers are kaplow clips (actually steel mirror mounting clips). Even if a screw vibrates loose for some reason the clips cannot turn away from the motor. Later tonight a layer of epoxy will be added to the top of the zipperless coupler CR to act as a fillet/seal the plywood. Still to do, are make the Av-Bay sleds, repair the used B2Rocketry Cert3 Large parachute I picked up on TRF (hopefully I am still under the 35lb mark at the finish) currently the rocket is simming at just over 30 lbs. But that does not include the 8-12 ozs of epoxy in the booster, and I still have to fillet the fins. Also on the to do list is the switch band hatch and static ports, shear pin holes, vent ports, charge wells, well nuts for the ematch wire bulkhead pass throughs, static ports for the nose cone Av-Bay (no recovery there just a Eggfinder TRS for tracking and additional data), prime, paint, decal and a myriad of other small things but its getting close.

The reason for the 12 holes around the motor adapter are someday a Aeropack 98 will reside on the rocket, and that is the pattern it uses 12 holes on 4.660" diameter, for now they will just mount the thrust plate to the rear centering ring.


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Rich this really is serious professional precision going into this! Not sure about would be this precise. Interesting epoxy choice, I don't think I have heard about that brand before. Any reason other than the mixing method over rocketpoxy or west systems?
 
Rich this really is serious professional precision going into this! Not sure about would be this precise. Interesting epoxy choice, I don't think I have heard about that brand before. Any reason other than the mixing method over rocketpoxy or west systems?

IMO System 3 is equal to West Systems and Rocketpoxy is not easily available, without ordering it from the East Coast. Normally I would have used US Composites epoxies for everything since they are a better bang for the buck when building with my construction style. Honestly with a rocket built of FG wrapped cardboard the brand of epoxy is really only important where two FG components are being joined, just about any epoxy is stronger than the cardboard to wood joints (and wood glue is a better choice there, but I don't feel comfortable with that type construction yet for L3 stuff). The mixing tip for the T-88 I didn't even use, since I didn't want to loose and ounce or so that would be unusable in the tube, and I had just barely more than I needed.
 
Today's bit of work is hopefully the last of the composite layups, the Av-Bay sleds. They are made from 6oz FG cloth (Bondo brand), 1/4" End grain balsa (same stuff used in the fins), and K&S Aluminum tubing, assembled and then vac bagged. The sleds were laid up as one continuous unit, and I will cut them apart when cured. One is for the nose cone tracker bay, and the for the center Av-Bay. They are designed to slip over the rods like most Av-Bays. So far the FoodSaver has worked great for vac bagging.

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More and more and more work, this project is definitely a busy one. Today was spent mostly on Av-Bays, the nose tracker bay is pretty much done at this point with the exception of Loctite on the aluminum rods that support the sled, the Eggfinder TRS looks good in that bay. The sled was repurposed from the nose bay of my daughters BAR Crayon. Hopefully will be test flying in two weeks and will see what effect the rods have on the transmitter.

The main Av-Bay with RRC3Extreme and Eggtimer Quark controlled by Missleworks screw switches, still some work to do mainly adding the restraints for the batteries. Normally my batteries go on the opposite side of the sled from the electronics but due to the all-thread directly behind the sled it wasn't possible to do that here. I still need to pick up some 2-56 screws to secure the Quark to the sled.


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While I was finishing my Level-2 last night I was talking with my oldest son and telling him that this was nothing compared to serious rockets folks are building. I tried describing your project and finally just brought him in here and showed him your thread. He was blown away. You really do some amazing work Rich.
 
First I've got to say that I'm really awed by your building skills here, but I've been meaning to ask this for some time now... What's with the end grain balsa? Why did you make that decision, rather than a more traditional sheet balsa?
 
First I've got to say that I'm really awed by your building skills here, but I've been meaning to ask this for some time now... What's with the end grain balsa? Why did you make that decision, rather than a more traditional sheet balsa?

I could be totally missing the point, but end grain balsa is used because when sandwiched between two layers of fabric, its stronger in both compression and tension. Think about a piece of wood its hard to compress or stretch, but bends easily from the side, its also more resistant to tearing along the grain (peeling?).
 
I could be totally missing the point, but end grain balsa is used because when sandwiched between two layers of fabric, its stronger in both compression and tension. Think about a piece of wood its hard to compress or stretch, but bends easily from the side, its also more resistant to tearing along the grain (peeling?).

Ah... So that's why. I've never done a layup before. Ok, makes sense to me now. Kinda like the honeycomb materials used in aviation, strength and rigidity without the weight.

Thanks!
 
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Ah... So that's why. I've never done a layup before. Ok, makes sense to me now. Kinda like the honeycomb materials used in aviation, strength and rigidity without the weight.

Thanks!

Same reasons, my explanation is not very good either, but hopefully I got the basic concept across.
 
A question was asked about why use end grains balsa,

From Composites World publication (article linked below)


"BALSA WOOD CORES
Low-density balsa wood is another popular core choice because of its relatively low cost combined with high compression and shear strength and excellent fatigue performance. Balsa trees mature in about seven years, reaching heights of 27.5m/90 ft. Balsa is, in effect, a natural composite — bundles of cellulosic fibers are held together by lignin and resemble a honeycomb under a microscope.
Harvested balsa lumber is first air dried, then kiln-dried to reduce moisture as much as possible. Depending on the environmental conditions, average moisture content of balsa varies from about 10 to 14 percent. The dried lumber is planed, cut to length, then precisely measured and weighed to determine density. After sorting, the lumber is glued together, pressed into large blocks and cut into sheets, with the wood fibers oriented perpendicular to the face of the core sheet. This end-grain orientation demonstrates the highest compression and shear properties, fundamental for good sandwich construction. Sheets are sanded, and then prepared for customer specification. While balsa can be supplied in rigid panels, many fabricators prefer flexible sheet material in which the panel is cut into small squares held together with a fabric scrim backing that allows the core to conform to a curved mold surface.
A common rap against balsa wood cores, particularly in the marine industry, is that the material will rot in the presence of fresh water. But marine specialists say moisture uptake occurs only when spaces between the cut core squares are not completely sealed with laminating resin or bedding compound, or if deck fasteners that penetrate the cored laminate are not properly gasketed and sealed against rainwater intrusion. Resin infusion molding methods evacuate air under vacuum pressure, ensuring that all voids fill with resin. Properly fitted interior insulation material also can help resist water accumulation from condensation, caused by temperature differences between the inside and outside of the hull.
The oldest and largest balsa core manufacturer is Baltek Corp. (Northvale, N.J., U.S.A.). Founded by the Kohn family, the company began importing tropical hardwoods to Europe as early as the 1880s. The first lumber mills and facilities were established prior to World War II and supplied balsa wood to military customers like De Havilland in the U.K., which used end-grain balsa core laminated with plywood veneer for its Mosquito bomber. Today the company has five plants in Ecuador, with over 17,000 acres of balsa plantations. Baltek was recently purchased by Alcan Inc. of Canada, and is now known as Alcan Baltek Corp.
Baltek developed the first scrim-backed flexible core, which it calls ContourKore. The company has, over the past several years, developed a new controlled density end-grain balsa product called SuperLite. Based on careful selection and harvesting of genetically modified trees with very little variation in moisture content (and thus density), core densities are available from 4.5 lb/ft3 up to 16 lb/ft3, in 1-lb increments. "They are the first balsa trees grown for the one purpose of becoming core material," says Alcan Baltek's Dohn. Like other suppliers, the company supplies core kits to simplify laminate construction and reduce waste for customers.
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, balsa wood actually performs very well in fire-critical applications. According to Dohn, a product's available combustion energy is a function of its density; a typical lightweight balsa doesn't offer much fuel, and it burns with a nontoxic white smoke. If the wood does come into contact with flame, a uniform char layer forms that protects unconsumed celluose from the heat source. In contrast, foams and particularly PU foams produce a black smoke that, depending on their chemistry, may contain toxic byproducts. For these reasons, balsa is approved in most transit applications. This is one reason that infused, balsa-cored, fiberglass-skinned panels have replaced phenolic honeycomb-cored laminates in the floors of Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) trains that operate in the greater San Francisco metropolitan area, because of lower cost and better durability performance, says Dohn."

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/getting-to-the-core-of-composite-laminates
 
Back at it again...

Today was all Av-Bay work, finishing up the sled, cutting the hatch cover and access hole, and epoxy the switch band in place. Tomorrow hopefully I will be able to finish the last of the little stuff like upper and lower payload bay fasteners, shear pin holes, and shear plates (on the motor section). Nose cone is pretty much done at this point prep and paint, since I added the static ports for it yesterday.

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That hatch cover is just on the money Rich....
Neat, clean, meticulous work...

Teddy
 
This is great stuff Rich. I've been wanting to learn how to use screw switches and how AV bay hatches are done as I grow. I'm really enjoying this section of your build!
 
This is great stuff Rich. I've been wanting to learn how to use screw switches and how AV bay hatches are done as I grow. I'm really enjoying this section of your build!

This is just my method, John Coker has an excellent video on his site about another method of doing them.
 
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