Estes - Are they nuts??

Backstory:

Right after X-Mass I went to my LHS and picked up several kits. Among the kits was an Estes V-2 (3228). I assembled the engine mount and prepared the tail cone according to instructions, or at least so I thought. This is the point that I realized that due to a profound brain fart, the aft centering ring had been mounted 2.75" too far aft! This was complicated by the fact that I had been very careful to get the gluing, in this case Titebond II, done properly. I don't think anything short of C-4 is going to get that stupid ring off.

So Saturday I sent Estes a E-Mail, seeking price and availability of the laser-cut card stock with the rings.

Rest of the story:

This morning, I get a response from customer service asking for a mailing address, saying they would send a "replacement". So I sent them the mailing address, and thanked them for their consideration. Then just after noon EST, I got an E-Mail from the warranty department indicating that the "replacement" is in fact an entire kit, not just the laser cut card! No expedited shipping, but an entire kit!??

Now that's some customer service - you screw up one of their kits and they bail you out. :eyepop:

They gave you the pickle.

https://www.giveemthepickle.com/

Glad you had a good experience with Estes. A search on this forum will return many similar experiences. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one that has ever been charged replacement cost - $20 for replacement MDRM fins (lamination warping issue). I didn't mind, either; I've always been happy with their product.

That's Estes for you. My only experience with that was with my Argent - the shroud lines pulled out of the parachute. The rocket survived the landing intact and I restitched the parachute. I notified them just so they would know there was an issue (I've now seen 4 out 8 PSII nylon parachutes fail this way) in case they were collecting data on it. They sent me a replacement Argent for my trouble, even though mine is still fine!

Wow! I was expecting a negative bashing post tbh but wow!

blackbrandt said:

Wow! I was expecting a negative bashing post tbh but wow!

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LOL You may , one day get what you expected, but I can assure you that it won't be from me, at least as far as Estes is concerned.

Diggr

When they moved production to china, it took away their ability to secure individual parts. Thus their only warranty recourse now is entire kits.

Your story is similar to my experiences with Estes when dealing with the LP kits as well. Someone said that they may not bother stocking parts for the LP kits, so they simply send you a new kit. Great of them for that and it does seem to be rare to get customer service so much better than you expected. I'm just hoping unscrupulous people don't take advantage, which would then make them re-evaluate this policy.

My biggest replacement item I've gotten is an Estes Majestic kit. The original chromed nose cone had a big squiggle of plastic down across it (likely taken out of the mold too soon). Normally I can sand that blemish off; however the nose cone was chromed, so that wasn't an option. I contacted them and told them about the issue and asked for a replacement nose cone and they sent me the entire kit! Really great of them and I really appreciated it as well.

When i had a deployment failure (my fault) on my DRM and needed a new set of fin decals, I contacted them to get replacements and they said "Sure, no problem! No charge." A few days later there was a box from Estes at my front door, much too big for a decal sheet. That DRM was finished as a Green Max thanks to Stickershock.

I have seen a complaint about Estes customer service but I believe that your experience is much more the norm with them. Out of respect and admiration for their policy, I will no longer contact them when the mistake is mine. I know that they will send me an entire kit without question, but I would feel like a thief. There are quite a few businesses out there that could learn from Estes when it comes to customer service.

I've only contacted customer service twice, and it turned out great both times. In my case it took a bit more back and forth and multiple emails, but I definitely ended up satisfied.

The first time was when I bought an OOP Executioner. The fins were warped, so I contacted customer service. They told me to try to straighten them and gave me a few things to try. I was disappointed, because this was my largest and most expensive rocket at that point, it was my first attempt at anything close to MPR, and I had been pretty excited. So I felt a bit let down to be told to fix it myself or live with it. I let them know how I felt, so they told me I could pick another rocket with a $50 value. The PSII builder kits were new at that point but were selling for $65 or more. I asked if I could pay the difference and get a Leviathan, and they sent it out to me for free. That's a nice upgrade! I was super excited to get my first real MPR rocket --- even mor excited than when I bought the Executioner.

A few few years later, I was still flying that same Executioner. It was very beat up and had been repaired lots of times. At my last launch, an Estes G40 catoed and destroyed the Leviathan beyond repair. I contacted customer service about it. They wanted photos of the rocket, the motor and the date code, but once they had the info, they offered a replacement rocket and motor. But I couldn't pick another Leviathan, because they were not available. I've got a stack of PSII builder kits in storage anyway, so I asked for an Ascender and a pack of F15-6 motors to fill a hole in the E-F part of my fleet. It's actually supposed to arrive today!

So so when I fly that Ascender, it will be a rocket I actually originally paid for when I bought the Executioner in 2013. That's pretty amazing.

It is much easier and cheaper for them to send you a new kit. If they open up a kit and send you a few parts, what do they do with the rest of it? Probably throw it away. Easier to just send you the whole thing and make a very happy customer.

I had a similar issue with a rocket ordered but others received. They said keep everything. We're shipping new ones. They were so nice about the whole thing. I'll continue doing business with a class act like that.

Funny I see this, I just got off the phone with Christine and explain the 3 problems I had last weekend and all she asked for was pictures and a short email with the problem she said they would replace the rockets when I was willing to pay for replacement parts...I guess they don't stock anything other than complete kits and bagged sale item parts. That was really nice of her, of course being a customer for over 25 years never thought once to call in for parts. Awesome experience!

Great experience here too. I had a G80 split the casing and blow tourch my PSII Nike Smoke on a Saturday, sent pics and email on Monday, and had a new kit and motor on Friday.

Thank all of you for you replies. I understand the reasoning behind their policy. But, I also worry about the jerk that would take advantage of this kind of response from a vendor. More and more I'm feeling like said jerk. I would guess that I'm too far into this now to stop it, but I can guarantee that this is the last time I will ever contact them to clean up a mess that I caused all by my lonesome. In a case of clear manufacturing defect, Estes will hear about, with photographic support. But, when I "screw the pooch" I'll just take my lumps.

I have a GREAT customer service story about Estes, where they read about something I posted here on the forum and they contacted me! I was given an offer and was asked not to tell anyone for a few reasons, so I won't give details, but they won me over for life.

Estes is a company with a track record of caring about their customers. They want to keep their customers happy because they want you to come back and buy something else, which also makes great business sense. While this practice is not unique to Estes as most companies in our hobby treat their customers well, the big difference is that Estes is the oldest company and has been doing it for 55+ years.

Companies have to spend money on advertising to get new customers and maintain their existing customer base. Much of it is indirect marketing in print and on-line to no one in particular. Maybe 1 out of 100 folks will pay attention and read it and some fraction may make a purchase. Resolving a problem that an existing customer has is far more effective advertising especially in a hobby business. First, they make the customer happy, and happy customers will continue to buy their products. The customer will also tell their acquaintances about their fantastic experience and a first person recommendation is the most effective type of advertising known.

When Estes manufactured their kits in Penrose, they made most of the parts in their factory and had a packaging line where they kitted their products. They could easily go into their stock room, pick up a part, and mail it out to you. In the early 2000's Estes could not find new local employees to maintain and expand their kit production so to stay in business they had to make a difficult business decision to move kit production to China where there was an abundance of labor. The most effective way to operate this business model is to do all the kitting in the plant where the parts are made, so they do not maintain a US based part inventory. As the vast majority of Estes sales are motors (still made in the USA) and kits (made in China) it doesn't make economic sense to sell individual parts, so if there is a problem with a defective part, it is simply less expensive to ship an entire kit to the customer. It's also great for the customer because he gets a bunch of spare parts.

So don't feel guilty about Estes good will. Show you appreciation by continuing to support them with future purchases, and enjoy.

Bob

They did the same with my PSII Nike Smoke...I was amazed! Now I have a Nike booster Well, close. The airfoils aren't scale, but perfect for sport scale.

bobkrech said:

Estes is a company with a track record of caring about their customers. They want to keep their customers happy because they want you to come back and buy something else, which also makes great business sense.

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Especially given the way fully "hooked" rocketeers will potentially buy so much stuff over the course of their hobby participation. I would think that for the builder's kits especially, a relatively small number of customers is responsible for a disproportionate amount of kit sales. Can't hurt to keep those folks happy.

And still, it is impressive that they've continued to operate this way for so long.

Ive always had great customer support/ service with Estes. I would rate their service an 11 on a 10 scale!!!

I had a very similar experience with them. I bought a Saturn V on ebay, but the wraps were destroyed. I emailed Estes to see if I could buy replacement wraps. They sent me the wraps, free of charge.

This is the reason that I have 25+ Estes rockets in my build pile. They have proven to me multiple times that they do make a solid effort to keep their customers happy. I just had another great experience with them. I saw on Facebook that the Little Joe II kit was going to be available soon. I got on the Estes webpage and placed my order on Friday. I got the Little Joe II in the mail on Tuesday (and Monday was a federal holiday).

And, I have to say that even though I am L2 working on my L3, my favorite rockets to fly are the PSII rockets on G motors. Good altitude, fun rockets, and relatively inexpensive.