My first Level 1 Rocket build

kcobbva said:

Thanks Dave. I do have a second Stratologer CF on the way. I just wasn't sure about trying to fit two 9v batteries, etc all over on the first one. I would assume from previous reading that one is set at apogee and for for a second or two after apogee; then one at say 700ft and one at 600ft; all tied into the same BP or possibly two BP reservoirs. However I've not gotten there yet. Maybe I'll do that with my Level 2 attempt (the Madcow Level-2). Just because I've not done it yet and will not just be "repeating" myself from the level 1.

I see you are in Alexandria as I am. Do you fly with NOVAAR?

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If your going to fly redundant altimeters might as well make the BP charges redundant too and upsize the second one a bit just in case the first one didn't do it. IMO/ $.02

rharshberger said:

If your going to fly redundant altimeters might as well make the BP charges redundant too and upsize the second one a bit just in case the first one didn't do it. IMO/ $.02

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Thanks Rich. Saved off into the "how to" onenote. Good advice and always welcomed!

The snow has ended and I got to hit it with yet another coat of primer. Wet sand tonight....

KenECoyote said:

A Quark would also be a great candidate for a backup altimeter...cheap and if you wanted to try the Eggtimer stuff, it should be a great starting point. My :2:

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Also for a different view, for a first DD, I don't think it's that necessary to have a dual altimeter setup. It comes down to complexity vs. simplicity. Often the more you add complexity, the more things to worry about and another item to go wrong. Plus the extra system adds more weight. To me, a well tested single may make more sense for a first L1 DD (my :2.

With single on L1, you can usually use the motor ejection as backup for the drogue anyway. Someone also recommended that for the first DD, you swap the drogue and main so that at least your main has a backup from the motor ejection. More drift, but also more assurance of a safer recovery.

KenECoyote said:

Also for a different view, for a first DD, I don't think it's that necessary to have a dual altimeter setup. It comes down to complexity vs. simplicity. Often the more you add complexity, the more things to worry about and another item to go wrong. Plus the extra system adds more weight. To me, a well tested single may make more sense for a first L1 DD (my :2.

With single on L1, you can usually use the motor ejection as backup for the drogue anyway. Someone also recommended that for the first DD, you swap the drogue and main so that at least your main has a backup from the motor ejection. More drift, but also more assurance of a safer recovery.

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+1 the single altimeter, as has been stated by other more experienced flyers like CJ use 2 ematches per charge and the chance of failure goes way down especially with easy to use alts like Missleworks and Perfectflites. I only use one alt for my flights of, course for L3 there is no option but redundancy. Cut down the complexity and you eliminate points of failure its the same reason I wire my ematches direct to the altimeter terminals and use as few connectors as possible in the wiring.

Fair enough. Single altimeter....dual ematches! I like that.

So here's my concept of the rocket. Interested in all thoughts. Not as good as I used to be in photoshop.

Reminds me a lot of the Estes High Flyer XL!

Me personally, I would build a level one rocket that is single deployment and low and slow. That is me.
Biggest reason is less stress and less things to go wrong. Its what I did. After getting level one, then I started working on dual deployment.
When I got a few dual deployment fights, I moved up to a level two rocket.

With my level two rocket, I built it how I wanted to fly it.
my level two successful fight was a Darkstar Jr on a CTI J380.

the biggest thing I would look at is managing your time before your fight.
I have a check sheet to make sure don't miss something stupid.. like tie my shock cord on to the rocket..
the stress will drive ya nuts..

The way you have it now is fine, but you will have extra stress before flight, and more to fail.
I would use one altimeter with backup motor deployment.
Also ground test everything, and use real black power GFFFF.

Good luck!!
~Russ

I did mine on an Aerotech Sumo. I built it spec and flew it several times on G motors. For my L1, I just needed to put an H in it. Voila!

That being said, lots of people like to push the bounds of accomplishment on their cert flights. Makes it more rewarding and memorable. That's why there is no one right way.

Bat-mite said:

That being said, lots of people like to push the bounds of accomplishment on their cert flights. Makes it more rewarding and memorable. That's why there is no one right way.

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+1

I did my L1 on a Sumo on a whim and while cool, it was somewhat anticlimactic. Later I did my L2 on a custom mod of an X-15 where the designer himself said it couldn't be done. I was definitely biting a LOT off for that L2 and worked like mad on it (as well a spent a lot of time testing); however all that said, my L2 flight was an incredible experience that I'm very proud of accomplishing. YMMV and safe flights!

Thanks guys. I do have a check list I'm putting together as I've read that tidbit of advice numerous times on the TRF. Not bad to see it mentioned again here!! Definitely dual deployment. No question about it. Pass or fail, it's my bucket list item. Unless something goes drastically wrong with the configuration, I don't believe I'll run into an issue from everything I've built and learned from everyone on this board. I feel pretty confident; but I still need to get the Black Powder and run ejection tests in the yard. Getting that, and travel are two things holding me back (as well as TOO COLD to continue to paint!). Again thanks for everyone's input! I'm consuming it all!

Kevin

The color scheme looks good but I steer away from dark colors with electronics. That poor altimeter will be sitting out under the sun on the rail quite a while before it's launched. They do get toasty. Not saying it will cause anything to fail but a black/dark rocket gets awfully hot.

grouch said:

The color scheme looks good but I steer away from dark colors with electronics. That poor altimeter will be sitting out under the sun on the rail quite a while before it's launched. They do get toasty. Not saying it will cause anything to fail but a black/dark rocket gets awfully hot.

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+1 Great point! Additionally, you should maybe add a bright color in case something goes wrong (like the main comes out at apogee and drifts far or it comes down tangled into heavy brush) and you end up having to try to find it. You never know!

So I absolutely hear you guys, but I've bought the paint on Monday. How about some of that tracker powder to help validate where it ejects at apogee. Chute is bright yellow.

kcobbva said:

How about some of that tracker powder to help validate where it ejects at apogee. Chute is bright yellow.

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The powder is really over rated. You have to put it in something like a folded piece of estes wadding to keep it from getting all over the inside of your rocket, and it still may not unfold and 'puff'.

I routinely fly Leviathan sized rockets to about 3K feet, and at that size and altitude, everything is easily visible unless you have a very low ceiling or poor light conditions.

Your rocket will be easily visible well above that.

Banzai88 said:

The powder is really over rated. You have to put it in something like a folded piece of estes wadding to keep it from getting all over the inside of your rocket, and it still may not unfold and 'puff'.

I routinely fly Leviathan sized rockets to about 3K feet, and at that size and altitude, everything is easily visible unless you have a very low ceiling or poor light conditions.

Your rocket will be easily visible well above that.

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Thanks! That definitely sets me at ease; and I was concerned about making a mess inside the rocket. Glad to get some confirmation there! I'm keeping the first attempt low (around 1.5 - 2K..don't have my rocksim here on this system to validate). I would assume it'd be easy to track unless as you said, we have a low ceiling.

kcobbva said:

For all I've not acknowledged, Thanks for the comments and advice! Much appreciated!

So today all I could do was sand down the primer so I can prime it again. Raining and took the wife out to Capital Steps show. Just a dry sand at this point. From the coverage, I can see I'm going to do this at least two more times, then wetsand the last before moving on to paint. Had to swing by Pep boys and pick up three more cans of Primer, and after thinking about it, another black and two more red; knowing the size of the rocket and what I'm painting. I think it's time for Photoshop and a pho painting job.

edit - add. Also wasn't happy with my fillets on this. The lines were just too strong, so I finally sat down tonight with some Elmers and filled out those a bit. Will sand it down tomorrow and hopefully be done with that.

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Use small needle files if you have any and file the lines until they blend into the body tube. If it shows in primer it will show on your paint. Always take your time. Epoxy clay is nice but takes some time to work with it

AfterBurners said:

Use small needle files if you have any and file the lines until they blend into the body tube. If it shows in primer it will show on your paint. Always take your time. Epoxy clay is nice but takes some time to work with it

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You know what. I do have those files thanks to Pinewood Derby, and hadn't thought about simply shaping those fillets, especially at the fore and aft ends where there are visual issues! Most excellent idea. Amazing how we don't think of something so simple sometimes until someone dangles the carrot in front of our face! Greatly appreciated!!

Whoa... This one managed to slip past me... Nice looking work there!

K'Tesh said:

Whoa... This one managed to slip past me... Nice looking work there!

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Thanks very much.

Painted my final coat of primer today. Gonna take a while to get to "colors" with the east coast "blizzard" coming in. oh well. Maybe I'll start my L2 "Level-2" while I'm in a holding pattern.

I just had to say, I've been following your build and it's coming along beautifully. That looks awesome just in primer and I love the camera shroud. I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to include something like that on my L1/L2 build. I'd like to, but don't want to overwhelm myself. Also, it's a 2.6" build, so I'm worried the shrouds everybody seems to be using now would look pretty bulky and awkward. Anyway, great job, and keep the photos coming!

MCriscione said:

I just had to say, I've been following your build and it's coming along beautifully. That looks awesome just in primer and I love the camera shroud. I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to include something like that on my L1/L2 build. I'd like to, but don't want to overwhelm myself. Also, it's a 2.6" build, so I'm worried the shrouds everybody seems to be using now would look pretty bulky and awkward. Anyway, great job, and keep the photos coming!

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Thanks. It's a lot of fun. I don' think the shroud will cause any stability issues from everything I've read and seen so far. Granted I've not launched with it yet myself; but that's coming. As for the 2.6; here's my Tomach I primed today after I finished the prime on the Torrent. It's 2.6 and you can see the attached camera shroud on it as well.

How's the paint working in these temperatures? I will have to paint my Level 3 rocket in February, and I am worried about temps.

I've had decent luck priming with in my garage lately when it's ~ 40 'F outside. I keep the paint (Rustoleum filler primer) in a bowl of warm water before hand. Drag the rocket into the garage, prime and then drag it back into my basement. (It's 7'5", so that is not an easy job.) The only issue is that the house smells like spray paint afterwards, so I try to do it before we are leaving the house for a couple hours.

That seems to work well for primer, but I'm not going to try it for high gloss paint. I'm building a make-shift paint booth in my garage tonight using some scrap wood, plastic drop cloths, an old box fan and an electric space heater.

BDB said:

I've had decent luck priming with in my garage lately when it's ~ 40 'F outside. I keep the paint (Rustoleum filler primer) in a bowl of warm water before hand. Drag the rocket into the garage, prime and then drag it back into my basement. (It's 7'5", so that is not an easy job.) The only issue is that the house smells like spray paint afterwards, so I try to do it before we are leaving the house for a couple hours.

That seems to work well for primer, but I'm not going to try it for high gloss paint. I'm building a make-shift paint booth in my garage tonight using some scrap wood, plastic drop cloths, an old box fan and an electric space heater.

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Bat-mite said:

How's the paint working in these temperatures? I will have to paint my Level 3 rocket in February, and I am worried about temps.

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The primer has done very well but I am stopping there as the proper temp is above 60 degrees. As i have no garage, and painting inside would result in my death (by wife), I'm stuck waiting now..... ��

Finally! It was 50 so I raced home from work, grabbed the kids, groceries, and got the rocket outside! Put the first color coat on and then peeled off the tape and give it a quick overspray to even out just a tad before I end up painting the second color another day. (Black so the overspray will be fine). Anyway, nice to FINALLY have a little color on this thing! Changed up the scheme in my head just a bit from what I'd done in Photoshop. We'll see how it ends up. Hopefully it won't be another month before nice enough weather again!!

Pretty cool. Not your run of the mill paintjob!

Looking good. We have one nice day and all of us are painting like crazy.