Future LDRS Locations?

I know that LDRS 35 is in CA this year (since it is the first). Do they announce future locations beyond the current year?

TheSamurai said:

Do they announce future locations beyond the current year?

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Nope.

Dave is correct.

The process is that clubs that are interested in hosting LDRS in any given year are bidding for the LDRS in the year following the currently known upcoming event. Bids for LDRS in 2017 are being prepared/considered by clubs right now (maybe).

The clubs complete the Tripoli LDRS Bid submission and send it to the TRA Board for consideration. When we host LDRS at Argonia, we try to get the bid in by about March 1 for consideration by the board with adequate time to announce during the current LDRS for next hears host club/site.

Make sense?

If you're in a club that would like to host, complete the Bid information and send it to TRA within the next few months. If you have an adequate site and adequate launch infrastructure and plenty of willing people at you disposal you too can host LDRS. Even if you can do it in a 'traditional' way, i.e. in the middle of summer or with a lower that average waiver, those aren't necessarily show-stoppers. The number of clubs willing and able to host LDRS doesn't seem to be growing and some new ideas would be refreshing, IMO.

--Lance.
Been there, done that ... more times than I care to admit.

Interesting. Thanks for all the info. That is really fascinating. Seems like it would be beneficial to have the sites picked at least 2 years in advance to allow for more pro time.

I doubt our club would even want to try and our top waiver has only been 44,000 feet which is way under what LDRS would want I am guessing.

Do you have any links to pertinent info?

TheSamurai said:

Interesting. Thanks for all the info. That is really fascinating. Seems like it would be beneficial to have the sites picked at least 2 years in advance to allow for more pro time.

I doubt our club would even want to try and our top waiver has only been 44,000 feet which is way under what LDRS would want I am guessing.

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Only 44,000'! Would make an excellent LDRS waiver.

I just hope the next LDRS comes back East a tad! Just wishing out loud..

44,000 is good? I thought LDRS had over 100,000 feet. I have never been. Going to CA this year. I figured the waiver needed to be pretty high.

Plenty of clubs have hosted LDRS with a waiver under 20,000 feet.

TheSamurai said:

Interesting. Thanks for all the info. That is really fascinating. Seems like it would be beneficial to have the sites picked at least 2 years in advance to allow for more pro time.

I doubt our club would even want to try and our top waiver has only been 44,000 feet which is way under what LDRS would want I am guessing.

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Trouble with 2 years out is this sport is just too volatile. You lose fields, people lose interest, etc.

I don't have the exact numbers, but from my recollection, I'd say 85-90% of the flights at LDRS 34 were under 10,000 feet. We had a 20K waiver for 34, and 24 for LDRS 31 I believe.
It's more of a large gathering than an extreme flight festival.

Honestly, the amount of work to pull an event like this off and the relative lack of reward (you get to see cool flights and lots of people, but the club membership itself isn't going to be enjoying much flying, if any) I really don't know why anyone hosts other than bragging rights.

Must LDRS be held during the summer month's.

TheSamurai said:

44,000 is good? I thought LDRS had over 100,000 feet.

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You're thinking of BALLS. Unless ROC manages to get a higher waiver for LDRS, the maximum altitude at Lucerne is about 19,000 feet AGL (22,000 MSL).

W7AMI said:

Must LDRS be held during the summer month's.

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https://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Prefectures/LDRS Bid Template.pdf


it would appear you can submit any dates...though those dates may affect if the bid is accepted or not.

We had a great time at LDRS33 which was held at "Bong" in Wisconsin. The waiver was 10,000 ft. The "next" LDRS is usually announced at the end of the "current" LDRS which gives the new hosting club a year to prepare.

Summer months might be hard us. So many fires. Usually June through August are no rockets on BLM land.

Whats the average attendance at an LDRS?

TRA LDRS Bid Template - The bid template for LDRS is here: https://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Prefectures/LDRS%20Bid%20Template.pdf. If I remember correctly, our most recent LDRS bid materials consisted of about a dozen pages.

Waiver Altitude - I would say that other than the Black Rock and Argonia, KS locations, the last 10 LDRS events have been held with waivers lower than about 25,000' or so. High waiver atitude availability is not a prerequisite for LDRS. Tripoli holds BALLS each year at Black Rock, NV and that launch is the extreme flight Mecca.

LDRS in Summer? - There is no mandated time period for LDRS, although travel for most folks is easier in the summer months, not to mention the weather in most of the USA. LDRS 27 and LDRS 30 were held over Labor Day weekend at Argonia - not the traditional summer break time. Part of the reason for that was that is gets bloody hot in Kansas during the middle of the summer (LDRS 22 temps averaged about 113F, ugh). Secondarily, our field is in PRISTINE condition around September 1 each year. There was rumbling of an upper Midwest LDRS after the corn harvest before the Bong LDRS materialized. Also, if you want to do a fall LDRS, consideration and close coordination with regard to the BALLS dates will be required.

Can My Club Do It? - Planning LDRS is a significant undertaking, but if your club already hosts a multi-day launch (say 3 or 4 days) with over about 100 flyers than you have an idea of what it takes to sponsor a large launch. For an LDRS, there can be 200-350 flyers in attendance. You will be expected to make arrangements for a hotel for the Board meetings and for most of the flyers to stay, and a banquet and TRA Members' Meeting is customary. For those who have been involved in planning a conference or large off-site meeting for their employer, the non-launch portion of LDRS is similar to a modest sized gathering of this type. For the launch, a proven set-up of no less than about 35 pads with the launch control integrated into one position, plus all the supporting infrastructure to safely accommodate this size launch is needed. We run LDRS at Argonia with about 56 pads and there is never more than one rack cycle wait to launch. It is possible for a cooperative of 2 or 3 clubs to accomplish this, although there are challenges if it is done this way. If you want to do it on your own and come up a bit short on launch gear, set the flyers fees price in a manner that permits you to add more pads, controllers, rails, etc. as needed.

All aspects of LDRS are controlled by the hosting prefecture under the advisement of the TRA Board. If you want to do something that hasn’t been done before or in a manner that hasn’t been tried, the TRA Board might question and/or challenge it, but if you have good reasons, they will listen to your ideas.

Let me make it clear here: I am not on the TRA Board or any sort of LDRS advisory panel, but KLOUDBusters has hosted LDRS six times and I have personally been in charge of 3 LDRS’. I know more than the average Joe. If any stated practice differs now or there have been codified policy changes, I would invite TRA Board members to chime in here.

Thanks, --Lance

Sabrina said:

We had a great time at LDRS33 which was held at "Bong" in Wisconsin. The waiver was 10,000 ft.

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+1. Frank Nobile, et. al. did a fabulous job!

DizWolf said:

Honestly, the amount of work to pull an event like this off and the relative lack of reward (you get to see cool flights and lots of people, but the club membership itself isn't going to be enjoying much flying, if any) I really don't know why anyone hosts other than bragging rights.

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It is called "Paying It Forward".

Yes, it is a lot of work.

No, the hosting members mostly don't fly as much as everyone else.

There is a great deal of satisfaction in showcasing your launch and your little slice of heaven to the rocketry community at large.

A club can also improve its infrastructure by hosting LDRS and make things much better long-term for their own club. I would not begrudge a club that walks away from an LDRS hosting with some money in the bank and a whole bunch of new launch gear. I look upon it as an investment.

--Lance.

I tried typing a response about 5 times now. I guess the best way to say it is that I prefer a weekend club launch with ten other guys to an LDRS style event.

Thanks for all the info everyone.

LDRS is an excuse to get all the TRA members together on one field for a few days. BALLS is where people go extremely big and extremely high. There are other national events, like URRF and Red Glare, that are well-attended, have lots of vendors onsite, and allow TRA and NAR members to attend.

Date...
At the board meetings at LDRS many times a non summer launch has been discussed. The typical reasons are fire restrictions and crops. The BoD has entertained the idea but all "wanting to do" a winter launch have not submitted a proposal, just a lot of talk.

Most years only have a single proposal. There is no plan to do East, West..... It goes to where the proposal is.
Want the East Cost LDRS of your dreams? Put it on!

M

I guess our club would have to do late spring or early fall to have a shot.

TheSamurai said:

I guess our club would have to do late spring or early fall to have a shot.

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Given the massive undertaking it is.... and the low number of applications.... just putting ANY bid in has a serious shot at it..... and 44K? that'd be a huge, huge plus.

TheSamurai said:

I guess our club would have to do late spring or early fall to have a shot.

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When LDRS is hosted by Kloudbusters at Argonia it is done in early September so an early Fall launch should be acceptable.

My son works at Micron in Boise, so an LDRS in that vicinity might be worth an 17 hour drive for me.

Lance covered all the bases. It's a 18-20 month commitment. 3 to 5 months of deciding how to do in and to write a detailed proposal to TRA BOD. Several months of waiting and then 12 months of implementation and making it happen.

You need a lot of equipment and volunteers. At LDRS 31 and 34 we planned to handle up to 400 launches per day @ 50 per hour. The nominal planned rocket breakdown was for 46% Mod Roc, 46% L1/L2 HP and 8% L3 launches. The nominal field plan was for 56 pads: 24 mod roc, 24 L1/L2 in 4 banks in 2 fields, and 8 L3 class pads in 2 field, 1 bank of 4 M-pads and a 4 tower alley for the really big stuff. There were about 150+ volunteer positions that need to be filled by the participants, and the home club needs a couple dozen dedicated members to manage the launch.

The organizers have little or no time to launch their own stuff, but it's very satisfying when it's successfully completed and you get to meet a large number of great folks.

Bob

The one thing you need to have, above all else, to host LDRS is a thick skin. You will have no end to the people who will complain about some detail that annoys them. These people will expect a professionally run event - they paid and "deserve" it. It does not matter to them that it is being done part time by a bunch of folks with day jobs.

H_Rocket said:

The one thing you need to have, above all else, to host LDRS is a thick skin. You will have no end to the people who will complain about some detail that annoys them. These people will expect a professionally run event - they paid and "deserve" it. It does not matter to them that it is being done part time by a bunch of folks with day jobs.

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1+
They will whine about the weather too hot(cold, wet, dry, snow, too windy, no wind.......). A week ago it was better, last year next week was better.........
If I could control the weather I would have a better paying job.
Just say, "I'm sorry, I don't recall seeing you at the planning meetings"

M
But I have been set free and it's not my job anymore.

MClark said:

Just say, "I'm sorry, I don't recall seeing you at the planning meetings"

M

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Or, "Thanks for volunteering to take that item."